---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 04:08 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 04:08 PM ----------
In the best case scenario you'd likely end up looking at an extremely strict amount of support characters for each group in every setting and with all of them doing essentially the same exact thing. To me that partially goes against the whole philosophy of an interesting form of support. One of the problems is also that many forms of support (CC for example) that could be well balanced in the hands of a new role are already available to everyone else in the game.
Get rid of tanking? You'll take my shield from my cold dead hands. If I could die, that is. But I won't because I'm a tank.
Paladin Bash has spoken.
By hybrid, I am referring to classes like druid, shaman, and paladin. My pen and paper game puts tanks and healers as mostly pures with some DPS ability. Of course, WoW is in too deep to try to change things, maybe the next MMO will do something more bold.I see... very interesting read here. You just made my day buddy =^p.
So the conclusion I got from reading this was that you think hybrids, namely druids should be able to change specs. This is obviously impossible imo because then there would be endless QQ from other classes, namely pure dps. Also we cannot do this because there are no pure tank classes or healers so pretty much all classes are hybrids right? This means onlythere would be no need for specs anyways. The way you could imo overcome this would be by adding yet another specific type of support class/spec designed around being capable of performing two roles at once more away from dps and support but into tank and heal thus forsaking dps. Or just a morpher type of class/spec whose main role is to be able to tank and heal and dps but without being OP. This is very very farfetched I know but it was still a good creative exercise =P
My thing with WoW is that due to human nature of one person plays one class, we can't have these things. I always envision an MMO were a single player controls a party of like 5 or 6 and has other members they can rotate in and out. This ends the class competition we see on the forums because everybody will have most of these classes in their roster Then for group content, they can join forces with other player's parties. Then you could design complex encounters without requiring 25 players and still have the depth.This bit really got me going m8. I so wish that Wow could be more like diablo and dragon age and just have random enemies and events come from nowhere, specially in dungeons and raids. This type of environment where a class's unique traits could be explored far deeply then the mere damage dealing, healing and tanking facerolls that currently mandate. that's what I would work for if I was of Blizz at least. Anyway, maybe you could check out my classes in my sig and see how I would try to implement a support role
The holy trinity is working fine.
adding a supporter class or several supporter speccs would might end up with a raiding model much like the burning crusade.
A bloodlust shaman in every dps group, totems, a shadowpriest mana battery in the healer group if you're lucky one in the caster group to. etc etc.
the good thing was that every specc brought a unique utility and you didn't have certain speccs being sidelines for an entire content patch because they sucked.
Also there is something nice about playing a class where you have a more defined role i liked playing a holy paladin back in the day because I knew I was a tank healer by nature.
But on the problem side you had required class stacking. Or you need at least 4 shamans or else you haven't got enough bloodlusts to dps the boss down. So recruiting got kinda problematic.
Those hybrids or supporters feeling annoyed because they didn't have so high dps numbers as the pure dps.
and flipping the coin here some healers didn't like that their endgame role was limited to tank healing
I liked how the speccs and classes where more unique back then, but I also recognise that it was problematic at times.
They actually tried this booner model in the past, sort of, so we can use history as a guide. Let's skip vanilla and go directly to BC, where they took the hybrid utility of shamans and paladins and spread it around to shadow priests and others. Basically, the model was hybrids bring utility (boons!) to the raid at a steep DPS penalty. By the end of the expansion, this led to weird class stacking requirements where to have a successful raid in Sunwell you needed two shadow priests, four warlocks, three paladins to secure each blessing, one and only one enhancement shaman, one and only one elemental shaman, as many resto shamans as you could manage... and by the time you were done, you could bring 2 or 3 players and not classes, as long as those players weren't shadow priests, enhance shamans, elemental shamans,.... you get the picture.
That's exactly what would happen again if a "booner" role were introduced (or I would say re-introduced). No matter how you slice it, guilds at the cutting edge will be determined to find the perfect combination of classes/buffs to min/max their output and give them even the slightest advantage.
A booner type doesn't fit very well into the WoW model, which is defined by damage meters, gear-based progression, and compared to other games, tightly tuned encounters and relatively balanced class DPS.
Last edited by hablix; 2013-05-05 at 05:12 PM.
I don't see any game being able to change their classes THAT much after it's gone live. So no. Waaaay too much re-balancing.
No. Trinity stays. It's a great system, and most people playing WoW like it. There is absolutely no reason to change it. There's reason to maintain it.
If it were up to me, I'd just loosen it up a bit. Spread out the goods. Classes would be able to offtank in a pinch or contribute substantially to healing without being a healer. Everyone would have some damage reduction cooldowns of some sort that they would need to use or they'd die and damage would have to be avoided. And I would have woven in those mechanics not in dungeons and raids but all the way back to leveling, with the occasional mob using instant kill but easy to avoid mechanics as early as level 10.
This reminds of the days before dungeon finder. Back then, if you were trying to run a heroic and your group was not geared well enough for it, you just replaced a DPS with a second healer. I remember this being particularly useful in the Shadow Labyrinth (in auchindoun). I would do this often.
Unfortunately, dungeon finder has made 5 mans much more rigid and therefore boring. The stupid tool forces all groups into 1 tank, 1 heals, 3 dps. I've tried respeccing once I got in as a dps to a second heals to make a run easier, and people just complain because "I'm not following what the dungeon finder specified". Even if it was making a run extremely easier, they hated it!
Another reason I quit this game...
Id love to have "support" specs, if i remember correctly wasnt in vanilla feral dps and ret dps was support roles?
6 Legendaries and counting. CC ring, Ghoul Ring, AMS cloak, Aggramars Stride, Frost belt, HB Helm.