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  1. #1

    Cloak and Dagger nerf

    another good nerf imo.. keep in mind it still will work in subterfuge but it wont be nearly as annoying.

    Inc SS being more of a thing again.





    enough? ^.^

    *edit - maybe should be in rogue forums.. but i think the pvp impact is worth a post.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-05-04 at 01:09 AM.

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  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    I reckon rogues will be using SS again instead of CnD now. It was a good nerf aswell tbh. Pretty ridiculous for a class to be unpeelable during their burst (look at warriors with avatars pre-avatar nerf).

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    The talent will be next to worthless now. I agree it was a bit OP, but there's honestly no reason to take it anymore.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    I reckon rogues will be using SS again instead of CnD now. It was a good nerf aswell tbh. Pretty ridiculous for a class to be unpeelable during their burst (look at warriors with avatars pre-avatar nerf).
    So you couldn't stop a warrior because you couldn't root him. What do you think happens when you root a rogue with dance up?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    I reckon rogues will be using SS again instead of CnD now. It was a good nerf aswell tbh. Pretty ridiculous for a class to be unpeelable during their burst (look at warriors with avatars pre-avatar nerf).
    Rogues are still subject to CC while in Shadow Dance, they can be stunned, rooted, feared, etc. But with only 2 offensive CDs as a rogue, not being able to stay on target while using them completely ruins rogue burst. CnD nerf is really bad IMO.

  6. #6
    Awful nerf, makes CND unviable which puts rogue back to 5.1 levels of mobility. Oh, without the average burst the class currently has. This change (along with 25% nerf to find weakness) screws over subtlety - as much as I hate doing so it looks like I'll be running as assassination next season.

    It's also not comparable to the avatar nerf at all for the following reasons;

    Warriors could force defensive CDs outside of their CDs
    Warriors have intervene, charge, heroic leap as gap closers (vs sstep/vanish+CND and CoS, two of which rely on burning a vital defensive ability)
    Warriors can break/gain immunity to the most prevalent CC (fear) with BR
    Warriors don't have a positional requirement on their important attacks
    Last edited by Dcruize; 2013-05-04 at 09:53 AM.
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  7. #7
    Rogues are fucked 5.3 I will be benching mine... Fuck you blizzard.

  8. #8
    CND was just insane and never should have been implemented imo.

    Rogues mobility needs to be adressed. And now, damage aswell it seems.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    Rogues are fucked 5.3 I will be benching mine... Fuck you blizzard.
    Maybe I'm being over optimistic but Holinka did tweet this - "I think people can "not take Rogues seriously" to their own peril in 5.3". Assuming he's tried playing a rogue on PTR, that MUST mean there are huge compensatory buffs coming.

    Maybe I'm not wrong for being over optimistic, maybe I'm wrong for assuming too much.....
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    The talent will be next to worthless now. I agree it was a bit OP, but there's honestly no reason to take it anymore.
    I agree. But it was flat out broken overpowered before. It NEEDED a nerf. I'd actually say that it should never even have been implemented. There's no way they can make the talent balanced.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-04 at 04:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    Maybe I'm being over optimistic but Holinka did tweet this - "I think people can "not take Rogues seriously" to their own peril in 5.3". Assuming he's tried playing a rogue on PTR, that MUST mean there are huge compensatory buffs coming.

    Maybe I'm not wrong for being over optimistic, maybe I'm wrong for assuming too much.....
    The class really don't need any buffs to compensate them for the 5.3 nerfs. 5.2 over-buffed them to be probably the most overpowered class in the history of this game. All these nerfs do is bring them in line with most other (top tier) melee specs. Which of course means they'll get shit on by casters but that's more of a caster vs. melee debate at this point.

    P.S. 5.2 rogues = 5.0 warriors (yes) > 3.0 dks > 3.0 rets > 4.3 rogues = 4.0 warriors. List of most OP melee and when they reigned supreme.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-05-04 at 05:04 PM.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    The class really don't need any buffs to compensate them for the 5.3 nerfs. 5.2 over-buffed them to be probably the most overpowered class in the history of this game.
    Wow..... just wow. I'm almost speechless, are you honestly telling me the class you have feared the most out of the entirety of WoW (on ANY character) are the rogues you are currently playing against?

    Wow. Wonder why we don't see double/triple rogue teams, or why there are only 8 rogues in the top #50 full teams on EU's most competitive battlegroup.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I agree. But it was flat out broken overpowered before. It NEEDED a nerf. I'd actually say that it should never even have been implemented. There's no way they can make the talent balanced.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-04 at 04:33 PM ----------



    The class really don't need any buffs to compensate them for the 5.3 nerfs. 5.2 over-buffed them to be probably the most overpowered class in the history of this game. All these nerfs do is bring them in line with most other (top tier) melee specs. Which of course means they'll get shit on by casters but that's more of a caster vs. melee debate at this point.

    P.S. 5.2 rogues = 5.0 warriors (yes) > 3.0 dks > 3.0 rets > 4.3 rogues = 4.0 warriors. List of most OP classes and when they reigned supreme.
    your ignorance to other op classes.... lets say Hunters, warlocks, mages amazes me... you really should look into this.... Btw ever seen the RBG team of 9 warlocks and 1 blood dk crushing other teams? ya thats not OP at all...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    Wow..... just wow. I'm almost speechless, are you honestly telling me the class you have feared the most out of the entirety of WoW (on ANY character) are the rogues you are currently playing against?

    Wow. Wonder why we don't see double/triple rogue teams, or why there are only 8 rogues in the top #50 full teams on EU's most competitive battlegroup.
    Really? Dying to a class in a cheap shot that's also capable of locking down your entire team only to come back and kill you isn't overpowered to shit? And you're pulling statistics of the least played overall class from a single battlegroup?

    Sub is undeniably over the top. To an absolutely ridiculous degree. Denying that is like me denying warriors were op as fuck in 5.0. The nerfs to sub were necessary. The nerfs put them nowhere near 5.0 levels because you're still retaining some major buffs from 5.2. I would honestly argue that rogues needed ZERO buffs and would in fact be fine even if they went to their 5.0 state. Why? Because 5.2 also saw all of the other classes that were eclipsing rogues nerfed. Rogues would have been doing well in 5.2 regardless of if they received buffs or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    your ignorance to other op classes.... lets say Hunters, warlocks, mages amazes me... you really should look into this.... Btw ever seen the RBG team of 9 warlocks and 1 blood dk crushing other teams? ya thats not OP at all...
    I meant melee. If you read what I wrote in other threads you'd note that I'm more than aware of how OP ranged are and will continue to be in 5.3. Hunters especially. And yea, I'll admit I forgot locks. The class that bitches the most about being weak but is in fact the strongest class since the beginning of arena without a single mediocre season let alone a weak one.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-05-04 at 05:06 PM.
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  14. #14
    Mechagnome Wootylicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    I reckon rogues will be using SS again instead of CnD now. It was a good nerf aswell tbh. Pretty ridiculous for a class to be unpeelable during their burst (look at warriors with avatars pre-avatar nerf).
    rooting,stunning,fearing,disarming wasnt clearly enough peel or?

  15. #15
    Blizzard still aren't nerfing Rogues properly. Their mobility and control is a part of the class. The issue is that they have the ability to kill people inside the first Cheap Shot. Nerf Marked for Death/Eviscerate and they will be fine.

    People just seem to see an overpowered class and want to nerf everything powerful they have. Completely the wrong way to do it but it's what Blizzard keep doing and it is why classes go from useless to OP then useless to OP and never get fixed. Just nerf Evis damage and they will be fine. If you nerf everything then they'll become worthless.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Wootylicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Blizzard still aren't nerfing Rogues properly. Their mobility and control is a part of the class. The issue is that they have the ability to kill people inside the first cheap shot. Nerf Marked for Death/Eviscerate and they will be fine.

    People just seem to see an overpowered class and want to nerf everything powerful they have. Completely the wrong way to do it but it's what Blizzard keep doing and it is why classes go from useless to OP then useless to OP and never get fixed. Just nerf Evis damage and they will be fine. If you nerf everything then they'll become worthless.
    so on top of the fact that our combo builders hit for the same they did in cata you wanna nerf our finishers that finally do some damage too?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    5.2 over-buffed them to be probably the most overpowered class in the history of this game.
    Rogue rep is nowhere close to 5.0 warrior rep, or even 5.1 warrior rep. Rogues aren't even on top of healers now, something warriors managed without effort last season. By no means are rogues "the most overpowered class in the history of the game". That's either warriors last season, or S5 DKs- and quite a few other options if you include heals in your list, including about half of the time for rshams and a third of the time for rdruids.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    Rogues are fucked 5.3 I will be benching mine... Fuck you blizzard.
    Tears, TEARS! Ohhh yeah right there. Feels so good. Holinka is GOD.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    The class really don't need any buffs to compensate them for the 5.3 nerfs. 5.2 over-buffed them to be probably the most overpowered class in the history of this game. All these nerfs do is bring them in line with most other (top tier) melee specs. Which of course means they'll get shit on by casters but that's more of a caster vs. melee debate at this point.

    P.S. 5.2 rogues = 5.0 warriors (yes) > 3.0 dks > 3.0 rets > 4.3 rogues = 4.0 warriors. List of most OP melee and when they reigned supreme.
    And here ladies and gentleman we see a typical Flaks, this one came to be around May 2013 and was still during his late phase of being a warrior.

    Rogues weren't all that bad, they had a tiny bit too high mobility but that's about it. Nowhere near what warriors in 5.0 and 5.1 did and not even remotely close to how strong DK's were. Hell they were even weaker then during the last season of Cataclysm for that matter.

    CnD needed to be adressed but this is going far over the goal.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    So you couldn't stop a warrior because you couldn't root him. What do you think happens when you root a rogue with dance up?
    le cloak? or trinket?

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