Page 11 of 15 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
13
... LastLast
  1. #201
    MoP has made me realize how lackluster Cata was. Hell, I even consider MoP to be better than WOTLK. Storywise they're even leveled, WOTLK being somewhat ahead, but in content and overall feel I like MoP the best.
    Before you write something on the internet, ask yourself this: Would I say this with these words to someone I met face to face?
    If not, then DON'T WRITE what you initially planned to. You are NOT anonymous on the internet, and there are laws that can cost you if you threaten, backtalk or harass someone else. You know nothing about the other person, so don't act like you do. Be humble, be polite, be a decent human being...or at least do your best, even though it can be difficult.

  2. #202
    Cataclysm as a whole...not sure I'd say it failed. But Dragon Soul WAS a failure and it left a sour taste in peoples mouths for the end of the expansion.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    I've always felt that there's one very simple reason for Cataclysm's lack of success -- the absence of new game features.

    We had plenty more of the same stuff we were used to (a whole lot more, really), but the problem was that the devs did nothing to change the way we play through that content. There was nothing that fundamentally altered the everyday business of logging into WoW, doing your quests, leveling your alts, or running some dungeons. It was the same gameplay with a new coat of paint.
    Every other expansion has introduced a whole ton of new systems that radically shake up how we experience the game.

    TBC had flying mounts, heroic dungeons, the justice gearing system, brand new raid sizes, daily quests, a "new" class for each faction, etc.

    In Wrath we got some massive improvements to questing, 10/25-man sizes on all raids, the concept of hard modes, far more accessible heroics, dual spec, a brand new class, a brand new type of world BG, dungeon finder, and so on.

    Pandaria has had arguably the most new features of all. Pet battles, challenge modes, another brand new class, (worthwhile) rare hunting, farming, the brawlers guild, scenarios, soon heroic scenarios, changing up how valour is acquired, and probably a bunch more stuff as the expansion continues.

    Cataclysm had... guild leveling? Did that really change the way you play? It was more like something passive that happened in the background. Archaeology? I guess archaeology counts. It was only in the final content patch of Cataclysm that we really got some awesome new features (LFR and transmogrification) that shook things up and gave the game a breath of fresh air. It's also worth noting that this was the only expansion where none of the BGs (aside from Tol Barad, perhaps) introduced a new game mode; they were just different arrangements of WSG and AB.

    I'm 99% certain this is the overwhelming reason for Cataclysm's stagnation. Simply because it did stagnate. You can argue whether many of the features I've listed are positive or negative ones in their own right, but you can't dispute that they did change the way the game was played.
    Change is good. Change is what keeps you playing the same game for eight years. It has its ups and downs, but there's always something new and interesting for you to try out, and that's what keeps your interest.

    Fortunately, given the direction of Pandaria, I think Blizzard have absolutely realised that this was the problem in Cataclysm, and since then we've been seeing a slew of game-changing updates with almost every patch.
    I think that this is the most accurate description of what went "wrong" with Cataclysm, at least compared to previous (and the current) expansion. It's not that Cata was bad, it just failed to really "shake things up". The old world changes were nice, and necessary, but they end once you finish the the 1-60 stretch. Now that it's been done, however, the groundwork for something really special has been lain, and, going forward, we can look ahead to all the awesomeness on the horizon, which (in my opinion) Mists has been steadily delivering on.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    So again what about Cataclysm made the antagonist so distant? And the BS about him being not being in any other game is bad. He was a character in lore before Arthas, Illidan, Kael'thas. Warcraft II . . .
    Minor point of order: he was only in the expansion to Warcraft II. Where we unceremoniously killed him.

    (But pssst they retconned it so he survived. And was a lot more powerful than he was in the game. A LOT.)

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 03:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    I've always felt that there's one very simple reason for Cataclysm's lack of success -- the absence of new game features.

    We had plenty more of the same stuff we were used to (a whole lot more, really), but the problem was that the devs did nothing to change the way we play through that content. There was nothing that fundamentally altered the everyday business of logging into WoW, doing your quests, leveling your alts, or running some dungeons. It was the same gameplay with a new coat of paint.
    Every other expansion has introduced a whole ton of new systems that radically shake up how we experience the game.

    TBC had flying mounts, heroic dungeons, the justice gearing system, brand new raid sizes, daily quests, a "new" class for each faction, etc.

    In Wrath we got some massive improvements to questing, 10/25-man sizes on all raids, the concept of hard modes, far more accessible heroics, dual spec, a brand new class, a brand new type of world BG, dungeon finder, and so on.

    Pandaria has had arguably the most new features of all. Pet battles, challenge modes, another brand new class, (worthwhile) rare hunting, farming, the brawlers guild, scenarios, soon heroic scenarios, changing up how valour is acquired, and probably a bunch more stuff as the expansion continues.

    Cataclysm had... guild leveling? Did that really change the way you play? It was more like something passive that happened in the background. Archaeology? I guess archaeology counts. It was only in the final content patch of Cataclysm that we really got some awesome new features (LFR and transmogrification) that shook things up and gave the game a breath of fresh air. It's also worth noting that this was the only expansion where none of the BGs (aside from Tol Barad, perhaps) introduced a new game mode; they were just different arrangements of WSG and AB.

    I'm 99% certain this is the overwhelming reason for Cataclysm's stagnation. Simply because it did stagnate. You can argue whether many of the features I've listed are positive or negative ones in their own right, but you can't dispute that they did change the way the game was played.
    Change is good. Change is what keeps you playing the same game for eight years. It has its ups and downs, but there's always something new and interesting for you to try out, and that's what keeps your interest.

    Fortunately, given the direction of Pandaria, I think Blizzard have absolutely realised that this was the problem in Cataclysm, and since then we've been seeing a slew of game-changing updates with almost every patch.
    This is fairly accurate, although don't forget the talent tree redesign. Since eclipsed by MoP's though... Blizzard played it a bit safe with the talent trees in Cata because the reforms they needed to make (MoP) were going to be controversial and they wanted to give old style talent trees one last chance. I can see how that and many other features could be seen as playing it too safe and not enough change, but if something's not broken then why fix it? I think that's how Blizzard felt when they made Cata. Wrath had done such a good job of streamlining the game that continuing it made sense. It was only partly successful.

    Maybe if they'd had LFR and/or transmog by launch or FL it would've been different. Although LFR continues to be controversial with some people (despite it being a huge bonus to people who previously couldn't raid) so maybe not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  5. #205
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    127
    I'm beginning to see a trend with posts today. This like every other post of a similar theme comes down to the hard-cores, and those who want to be hardcore claiming Cata was amazing. The other spectrum says hell no, and you have those in the middle. I guess its irony that 2-3 years ago id be the one complaining it was to easy, once you grow up and video games and the accolades of others of a similar mindset no longer mean anything you become like those I used to loathe, the ones who didn't want to commit an immense amount of time for a reward that was replaced in 6-9 months.

  6. #206
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    9,687
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    MoP has made me realize how lackluster Cata was. Hell, I even consider MoP to be better than WOTLK. Storywise they're even leveled, WOTLK being somewhat ahead, but in content and overall feel I like MoP the best.
    Ditto. Guild RP kept me playing Cata (and honestly, not even that was enough to keep me going for months at a time), LFR/HoT 5-mans got me back into endgame PvE... but MoP made me fall in love with the game again after Cata basically said 'Sorry, you can go sit in the 5-man Normal Mode corner.' for most of an expansion's lifetime.
    Last edited by Callei; 2013-05-07 at 04:08 AM.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  7. #207
    Dragon Soul was a terrible, terrible final raid zone. The Deathwing fight was also tremendously dull as a fight. Firelands though I believe was amazing and felt way more like a final raid zone than DS. Apart from DS I don't think cata was that bad. Even BoT and BwD were nicely done raids imo.

  8. #208
    I think it was the least good expansion.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Taedros View Post
    Dragon Soul was a terrible, terrible final raid zone. The Deathwing fight was also tremendously dull as a fight. Firelands though I believe was amazing and felt way more like a final raid zone than DS. Apart from DS I don't think cata was that bad. Even BoT and BwD were nicely done raids imo.
    Yeah, it was really only DS that was terrible. The final fight is awesome in concept, with the setting, Deathwing's deformed body rising from the maelstrom, the aspects alongside us, etc, but the fight was just boring mechanic wise.

    As for his appearance in wc 2, they retconned Deathwing into a major lore character all the way back in Warcraft's first novel, Day of the Dragon. Also Knaak's first contribution to the series.

  10. #210
    I still think people are exaggerating how bad DS was. Wasn't great and a few fights were like "why am I killing an orc shaman/mage when I'm here to fight Deathwing?". But it doesn't even make the short list for my least favourite raids. It was just mediocre when end of expansion raids have been expected to be amazing since ICC and Sunwell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    As for his appearance in wc 2, they retconned Deathwing into a major lore character all the way back in Warcraft's first novel, Day of the Dragon. Also Knaak's first contribution to the series.
    Well that was in 2001, not long before Warcraft 3 was released IIRC. Long time after Warcraft 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  11. #211
    Cataclysm had... guild leveling? Did that really change the way you play? It was more like something passive that happened in the background. Archaeology? I guess archaeology counts. It was only in the final content patch of Cataclysm that we really got some awesome new features (LFR and transmogrification) that shook things up and gave the game a breath of fresh air. It's also worth noting that this was the only expansion where none of the BGs (aside from Tol Barad, perhaps) introduced a new game mode; they were just different arrangements of WSG and AB.
    Whoa whoa, call off the airstrike. You're saying that Catacylsm was lackluster for other reasons BESIDES that Heroics and Raids demanded a brain?

    You're crazy! Don't you know this is MMO CHAMPS? LFR HEROES RUN THIS TOWN BRO!

  12. #212
    I think the heroics where a giant failure and really hurt the game. There is more one shot mechanics in Cata heroics than there is in Mop LFR. I wanted a bigger challenge than wotlk heroics. For me those where way to boring but they went way off with Cata heroics. There are several fights where a single bad player can wipe a group. That is just bad design for 5 mans.

    MoP heroics are perfect imo. Slightly easier than the nerfed heroics of TBC and that is what I wanted.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    - Arthas was never really shown either, it's just that much more people played WC3 than WC2.
    - It felt connected enough to me, but that's personal.
    - 4.2 - you just outright ignored a whole unique question zone, not sure if you expect to be taken seriously.
    Never really shown? He was in almost, if not every, zone and a few dungeons.

  14. #214
    Elemental Lord Tastyfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    8,213
    Every ball thrown can't be a homerun. Idk why people expect a 100% win.... It's delusional, totally unrealistic and we all know it.
    “Expect to feel pleasure. Knowledge is sexy. Expect to feel pain. Knowledge is torture. ”
    Jeff Noon, Vurt
    Scientism is ripe on MMOC ,so is the lack of understanding that science is a tool ,not an organizing principle

  15. #215
    LFD wasn't a Cata invention. It came out in Wrath.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I still think people are exaggerating how bad DS was. Wasn't great and a few fights were like "why am I killing an orc shaman/mage when I'm here to fight Deathwing?". But it doesn't even make the short list for my least favourite raids. It was just mediocre when end of expansion raids have been expected to be amazing since ICC and Sunwell.



    Well that was in 2001, not long before Warcraft 3 was released IIRC. Long time after Warcraft 2.
    It was before WC 3, the point at which Warcraft evolved beyond simplistic 'humans good orcs bad' storytelling, and years before Deathwing appeared in WoW.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by NotLuto View Post
    Never really shown? He was in almost, if not every, zone and a few dungeons.
    In my opinion they over did Arthas in Wotlk. We was everywhere...

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    In my opinion they over did Arthas in Wotlk. We was everywhere...
    The problem with MMO's is that they're so impersonal. In WC3 it was a story told from the character's perspective intimately, but in WoW you're solider #368 looking at a bunch of people talking while you move from quest to quest. The game doesn't STOP and therefore you lose that intimacy.

  19. #219
    Mechagnome Thulyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Somewhere in Norway.
    Posts
    533
    Loved your Video... Very informative!

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    I went into Wrath not knowing a damn thing about Arthas other than he was responsible for EPL/Strath/Scholo.

    By the time we killed him, I knew EVERYTHING about him.

    I fought at his side to "purge" Strath of the plague.
    I saw him get manipulated to focus on his anger.
    I saw him betray Muradin and his friends to get frostmourne.
    I saw him grant powers to beings
    I saw him punish and betray those same beings he gave powers to
    I saw him torture an old friend just out of malice
    He killed me in Howling Fjord, saying death isn't eternal - and that he has a plan for me.
    I even got to PLAY as him... creating armies of undead to slay more people to raise even MORE undead!
    In the end, he kills me again - revealing his plan was to raise us as an elite army.
    Well, story telling during WotLK wasn't bad, but...
    Arthas appeared way too much. Fuck, that moron showed himself over and over again, telling us how EASY it would be to kill us now. He was presented as nothing but a loud-mouth with no power to threaten us.
    Deathwing instead showed up only a few times and when he showed up, you really had to run away to not get killed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •