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  1. #261
    They completely destroyed pvp in that expansion. That's my main reason. Also dragon soul.

  2. #262
    What was wrong with pvp in cata?
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  3. #263
    Pandaren Monk Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitmannoob View Post
    What was wrong with pvp in cata?
    The easy accessible legendary weapons like the staff of Firelands patch and then the rogue daggers in DS patch which the players can use them in pvp make things way unstable and unbalanced. The first pvp season of cata was good though.

  4. #264
    Every expansion had legendary abuse and blizzard allowed legendary weapons in arena since day 1.

    example: http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=159069

    I love the double kills with bladestorm so much skill.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    The easy accessible legendary weapons like the staff of Firelands patch and then the rogue daggers in DS patch which the players can use them in pvp make things way unstable and unbalanced. The first pvp season of cata was good though.
    Those Rogue daggers were no better than any other raid weapon of equivalent ILVL. The proc was downright useless in PVP. They had nothing on fucking Gurth.

    The staff was pretty OP though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  6. #266
    Dagger were decent u could spam eviscerate but yeah gurthalak most underrated weapon lol.
    Last edited by worsthitmanNa; 2013-05-08 at 05:12 AM.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  7. #267
    Field Marshal Toc's Avatar
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    Here's how I see it. Wrath opened the game up to the casual player. Easy heroics and the creation of dungeon finder. We sat in Dal. We queued to cap badges. We ran our ICC for the week. We rolled alts because we were bored. People flocked to the forums. They screamed about how lame the game had become. Blizzard apparently listened.

    Cata pops. Remember your first heroic in Cata? Mine was dead mines. What a disaster. My first time in Grim Batol I got in with 4 people from the same guild. Cleared all trash with no issue. Got to Umbriss and watched him one shot the mage in the group over and over with each charge. Heroics were back to their glory and truly heroic again. Alas Blizzard forgot that they created dungeon finder and that 5 random people from 5 different servers might have an issue clearing these dungeons. Corla, her beams and LFD groups in BRC still make me run to the corner, sit in a fetal position and rock back and forth while chanting "Why can't they move out of the beam? Why can't they move out of the beam?"

    Running the heroics with my guild were great. Raiding in T11 and T12 was great. I loved the challenge. A lot of players didn't. Looking for Dungeon groups were painful and queues for a dps were commonly 45-60 minutes from my memories. Now the forums are loaded with people complaining about how hard dungeons are.

    At this point here comes Ghostcrawler and his, "Wow, dungeons are hard" blog. This, like the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, was the powder keg to start the war. This war of course is the Casual vs. Hardcore war that is still raging to this day. Not only did they further divide the community but the Devs and CMs seemed to be popping up at a regular basis to stir the pot whenever they had a chance.

    Blizzard stood by their claims that the difficulty was good for the game and destroyed two raids in 4.1 and turned ZG and ZA into 5 mans. 5 mans that were just too hard for the casual average WoW player. This was the final straw for many casual players and I watched a lot of them quit in droves. I saw the casuals in my guild quit, many of those who were ex-raiders, and watched the population of my realm start to fall. 4.2 pops. Firelands comes out for the hardcores/raiders and heroic Rag is epic (just my opinion of course). Casuals get dailies. Just dailies. Fun. At this point I thought Blizzard had made up their mind. Dungeons and raids were going to stay challenging no matter how much whining there was.

    And then came 4.3, the Return of the Casual. Blizzard releases 3 new "heroics." All of them pretty much WotLK faceroll type dungeons. And here comes LFR and the DS normal and heroic raid. After the entire Cata expansion pushing the casual to the edges BAM! Here's your free 378 epics and a raid you can queue for if you don't have time to commit to a raiding guild. Um. Hello? Blizzard? WTF are you guys doing? Make up your minds please! 4.3 was most definitely the Cata patch for the Casual. DS ran on forever. Many of the raiders (aka hardcores) in my guild then quit as DS was too easy and really not an exciting raid.

    Please don't get me wrong. I have nothing against casuals or hardcores. I am not trying to turn this into the casual vs. hardcore thread as I think we have all seen enough of those. This post is about how Blizzard and the Cata expansion destroyed the community by, in my opinion, splitting it in two and pulling a 180 on their design plans. The split and turn probably cost me half of my guild. The casuals who quit when things were too hard and the raiders who quit when things got too easy. This is why Cata failed for me.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    The easy accessible legendary weapons like the staff of Firelands patch and then the rogue daggers in DS patch which the players can use them in pvp make things way unstable and unbalanced. The first pvp season of cata was good though.
    The daggers, maybe, but they weren't op for rogues in PvP.

    As for the staff, while OP, I'd hardly call it easily accessible. Took quite a while to obtain the third stage staff which gave the proc and final.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    The mass summon feature is different than LFR mate...the difference is that specially at the first week of Cataclysm..it was possible to even mass summon your entire raid grp even if they are inside the raid instance to use it to skip some trash mobs in BWD and such thing is indeed ruining the game play experience. LFr doesn't ruin the game play experience it's just another diffeculty of raid which being easy mode diffculty of our raids.
    So? Why do you care how other people are playing? If you thought it was ruining gameplay experience then all you had to do was not take the summon?

    See? I'm shooting all the pro LFR arguments back at you.

    Edit: And about the trash skipping, what's so bad about that? I thought saving time = good?

  10. #270
    Pandaren Monk Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    So? Why do you care how other people are playing? If you thought it was ruining gameplay experience then all you had to do was not take the summon?

    See? I'm shooting all the pro LFR arguments back at you.

    Edit: And about the trash skipping, what's so bad about that? I thought saving time = good?
    please first of all I never ever complained about LFR ever. The way you are responding to me it's as if I was whining or complaining about LFR... quite the opposite in fact I love LFR and the idea of it is awesome.

    Saving time is good yes but skipping trash when content was still new and fresh and exploiting one of the game features just because it's convienent and fast is not my cup of tea sorry and if you read what I said I was talking about the first week of cata before they nerfed the mass summon. It's not I care about how others play in fact I don't care but when others ruin the gameplay for me for the sake of fast and convienence then yes I care because it's my own gameplay here thank you.

  11. #271
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    I dislike that A LOT of developmental time went into revamping the old zones, not only did this take away from things that could of been in the 'end game' it removed a part of the game. I really enjoyed leveling new toons through the old zones and remember some of the awesome times I had way back. Now I just remember how pissed I am that they removed those zones, npc's, and quests.

    Deathwing in my opinion is one of the least entertaining bosses I have ever killed and he was a freaking endboss. You just DPS a pillar that saws "Deahtwing's Toenail" on the nameplate and then spat he's dead. He fly's up to Stormwind and Org and instead of murdering people he just farts on the gate and fly's away.

  12. #272
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDDGuides View Post
    Mass summon was a bit of a joke. Why go out clubbing when you can just summon the party into your room?
    Why get out of bed when you can summon your girlfriend there with a bag of chips and an empty urine flask?
    So this is why I'm single. Bummer. I almost wish I had played during Cataclysm now. But alas, I'm a mage so I'm used to travelling light. Don't even have to spend gold on bags of chips anymore, thanks Blizzard.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by hitmannoob View Post
    Dagger were decent u could spam eviscerate but yeah gurthalak most underrated weapon lol.
    Even if you got the full proc off (which was hard enough in some PVE fights let alone PVP, fucking thing always procced at the worst possible time) it still hit like nothing, you were better off using it to refresh SnD/Recup.

    I mean they were no doubt better than PVP weapons but so were all the other raiding weapons, especially the heroic ones. It was a really underwhelming legendary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  14. #274
    Gem in a giant pile of shit is a perfect analogy. The expac has some very key things done in it, such as the 10-60 revamp, and the level 10 specialization, but due to the lack of content, the rehashing or content, as well as mandatory content (insert dailies, LFR, (a la MoP LFR now too) and whatever else) and the massive increase in difficulty, it made the game extremely stale. The PVP in Cata, I can say, was quite balance, with no one class being extremely and insanely overpowered, minus feral druid and frost mages in the earlier part of the xpac. Overall, it did some really key things, but fuckin' a, was just really poorly executed.
    Quote Originally Posted by kivipää View Post
    Total capitalism, on the other hand, is a system where the few are the winners, and the rest are powerless. It is also an impossible system, because the vast majority of people will be unhappy. And when that happens, the winners of yesterday tend to be the lynched of today, and the system is changed.
    Welcome to America. Here is your corrupt politician, complementary gun, and your fixed news. Hope you enjoy your stay.

  15. #275
    High Overlord Mehrunes Dagon's Avatar
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    Only five things I liked from the expansion: four of which carry onwards, and one that you can no longer experience unless you go to private servers:

    5. LFR
    4. Old zone revamp
    3. Transmogrification
    2. Reforging
    1. Heroic Ragnaros

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    The weirdest thing was how it was tied to guild membership. Why did they feel the need to throw so many incentives at being in a guild when pretty much everyone was in one anyway? They have enormous advantages even without perks. I mean, my characters were always in max level guilds in Cata, but it just seemed silly.
    I think they were trying to disincentivize guild hopping, which was a problem in BC.

    Of course, what happened was that people who really were hot on progression guild hopped to higher guilds anyway, and lots of lower guilds with partial raid teams died when they couldn't recruit.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  17. #277
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    The daggers, maybe, but they weren't op for rogues in PvP.

    As for the staff, while OP, I'd hardly call it easily accessible. Took quite a while to obtain the third stage staff which gave the proc and final.
    I remember going back to CATA as a Rogue. I had quit back in WOTLK days.

    After reaching 85 and gearing up through AH and profession epics, I tried finding a guild. That was in pre-dagger days. There were only 2 25 man guilds left and everyone had gone 10 man. Everyone I spoke to said to me "lol rogue", "we don't need Rogues", "Why should I get a Rogue since a Feral Druid does just as good DPS, they have combat RES and they can offtank", "Rogues are obsolete" and "Reroll Ret/Holy".

    After a lot of searching, I found someone who came from the same country as I do and was the guild master of one of the two 25 man raid guilds on the server. He signed me up as a trial only because I was a compatriot of his, and they usually took me in raids when they were short on DPS. In their regular roster there was NOT ONE, NOT A SINGLE Rogue, and their best DPS'ers were the former Healing Officers (2-3 of them) with their former holy priests rerolled shadow priests and that stupid legendary staff. I remember in Raids the Shadow Priests did 50% DPS more than the next lowest class, it was absolutely pathetic.

    After a month raiding like this I quit the game and went to play TBC (Burning Crusade) on a private server.



    The above is a typical example of raiding in Catafail prior to the introdution of the daggers. It's a screenie from that remade Molten instance (I forgot the name) and you can see my Rogue scoring 8th in DPS while the Healing Officer with the legendary staff is first with his shadow priest and 2nd and 3rd are two locks also with that stupid legendray staff.

    The Shadow Priest with the legendary staff did 36k DPS while the rest of us did around 22k DPS average while the Locks did around 32k DPS.

    It was after seeing this level of Dev fail that I decided WoW has no future and I went back to playing TBC on a private server.
    Last edited by Sturmbringe; 2013-05-08 at 01:17 PM.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  18. #278
    I loved Cata, I loved the fact that they revamped 1-60 zones and it was the most alt friendly expansion ever. I was able to level and try all of the different classes and had a blast. But I was never an end game person so it never mattered to me what there was to do at the very end cause I was enjoying the low level content.
    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species.

  19. #279
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    The following is an historic screenshot because it shows what had happened to the game by the time I returned to WoW, which was during patch 4.2:Rage of the Firelands. I had originally quit in late WOTLK:



    I returned to WoW only to find my guild had switched to 10-man instead of 25 man, 80% of my guildies had quit the game, 75% of the people on my friends list gone, and my server had become a ghost server.

    You can see the "Friend Removed Because Character No Longer Exists" messages. I believe WoW lost about 3 million subscribers during Catafail.
    Last edited by Sturmbringe; 2013-05-08 at 02:32 PM.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    please first of all I never ever complained about LFR ever. The way you are responding to me it's as if I was whining or complaining about LFR... quite the opposite in fact I love LFR and the idea of it is awesome.

    Saving time is good yes but skipping trash when content was still new and fresh and exploiting one of the game features just because it's convienent and fast is not my cup of tea sorry and if you read what I said I was talking about the first week of cata before they nerfed the mass summon. It's not I care about how others play in fact I don't care but when others ruin the gameplay for me for the sake of fast and convienence then yes I care because it's my own gameplay here thank you.
    Read again, I know you're in full support of LFR that's why I'm using your PRO LFR arguments against you. I'm against LFR if you haven't learned already.

    And like I said, if you wanted to kill trash so badly then why didn't you decline the summon? Because it's hard to pass up convenience right?
    Just like LFR.
    It's.
    Hard.
    To.
    Pass up.
    Convenience.

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