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  1. #81
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    So what's it gonna be? Apparently Cata destroyed social interaction and we don't need guilds.
    It did for a large part, before 4.0 there were no guilds created on the sole purpose of having as many members as possible to make the cash flow as high as possible for the guild master while offering perks to leveling were no one says a word in /g, at all.

    In wrath and earlier the only two reasons someone would join a guild would be to join a social community and/or raid with an organised group, the kind of guilds purely built upon the earlier of these two options are far from as many as they used to be.

  2. #82
    I started playing WoW again when Cataclysm was released. I rolled a Goblin and leveled him to 85, then started leveling more characters.

    Overall it was the expansion that brought me back to WoW, after having left towards the end of the Sunwell opening in BC.

    I enjoyed it.

    My most memorable early Cata moments were joining a Stonecore heroic and wondering if the people in my group had the composure to get through it. I enjoyed the difficulty, it made things seem more satisfactory.

    With that said, there was too much emphasis on the rework of the "old world" 1-60 experience, especially considering how many players (myself included) leveled into Outlands territory very quickly. It was interesting to see how Azeroth had changed, but it passed by so quickly. I definitely agree that the world needed to be updated, but it would have been nice to include some areas built for people between 60 and 80.

  3. #83
    The Lightbringer Uzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    You can. People can justify anything. You can justify it ESPECIALLY when every single one of your contenders who set out to beat you because they have fresher graphics, a bigger franchise AND the advantage of watching your product over 8 years lost 50% and more of their subs.

    So...when 2 games set out to "kill" WoW (or at least bite a massive Chunk out of your subs) and Cata is apparently "fail" as stated by quite a few people here - when at the end of the day everybody bleeds, but the contenders literally hemorrage - then at the end of the day WoW emerged with a few scratches and everybody else slinks off with their tail between their legs. If I may be so poetic.

    Blizzard aren't clairvoyant. They hoped for 800 000 people to play Classic. Yes...under that light, the game continues to be a massive success.
    You're right, never thought about it this way.

  4. #84
    My only problem with Cataclysm was everything after launch just seemed lazy. It had plenty of content to hold you over for a few months, but then when 4.1 came out, it just reeked of laziness. Unfortunately 4.2 and 4.3 weren't any better either.

  5. #85
    You cant compare Cata to Wrath. The majority of people played through 2 Warcraft 3 campaigns and had a great image of arthas. if those games were focused on Deathwing this thread would be titled why did wrath fail.

    Even for max level characters low level zones were interesting as there were many cool and funny quest chains in the old zones. so there was plenty of content. Did it feel a little mundane? yes prolly as arena season lasted for ages and pve content wasnt as much after the first tier.

    Judging by "my friends left" or "my guild disbanded" or "my arena pals quit" isnt accurate as the game is played by 10 million players and you and your friends are a minuscule part of the whole public. Not to mention if you are a 1) high rated arena player or 2) hardcore pve player you represent even smaller portion of the population compared to all the RPers/Casual players.

    Like others pointed out, its completely subjective and if you want to see if it did really fail you need statistics and a sample.

    Most importantly - blizzard have learned their lesson with 4.1 - you will never see such a patch in the future - so far content patches always have couple new scenarios, tons of events zones like the one coming in 5.3, buckets of lore and new features coming out like heroic scenarios. Not to mention the "BIG GUN FEATURE" is not released yet for this expansion and it will surely fill up your time.
    Last edited by klaps_05; 2013-05-05 at 11:54 AM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    They still had it until Cata. I got the attunements in Wrath, and was genuinely disappointed that all my hard work in collecting keys for an achievement had been for naught, since the achievement didn't become a Feat of Strength. In Wrath and all the expansions before, only one person had to have a key for everyone to get in. They removed the attunements shortly before transmogrification was established in the game.
    No you are wrong.
    I will now use an external source of information namely wowheads comment board for black temple. http://www.wowhead.com/zone=3959#comments

    By Pyrot (544 – 4) on 2008/02/08 (Patch 2.3.3) Report
    Attunement lifted in patch 2.4.
    "Players will no longer require an attunement quest to enter the Black Temple.
    Players who have completed the attunement quests for Black Temple and Hyjal will be granted the title of “Hand of A’dal”.
    Last edited by Pyrot on 2008/02/09 (Patch 2.3.3)

    and http://www.wowhead.com/patchnotes=2.4.0
    Players will no longer require an attunement quest to enter Hyjal.
    Players will no longer require an attunement quest to enter the Black Temple.
    Players who have completed the attunement quests for Black Temple and Hyjal will be granted the title of "Hand of A'dal".

    sure you could still do the quest but you didn't need to do it in order to get access to BT, which was what det complained about saying that nobody wanted to take his alt through t5 to do vashj and kael'thas so that he could get to BT. And he did say that his alt had done isle of quel'denas which was an 2.4 addition...
    Last edited by Dax75; 2013-05-05 at 11:57 AM.

  7. #87
    It failed? oh good to know.

    In my opinion it wasn't the best expansion ever, but it didn't "fail".

  8. #88

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    I went into Wrath not knowing a damn thing about Arthas other than he was responsible for EPL/Strath/Scholo.

    By the time we killed him, I knew EVERYTHING about him.

    I fought at his side to "purge" Strath of the plague.
    I saw him get manipulated to focus on his anger.
    I saw him betray Muradin and his friends to get frostmourne.
    I saw him grant powers to beings
    I saw him punish and betray those same beings he gave powers to
    I saw him torture an old friend just out of malice
    He killed me in Howling Fjord, saying death isn't eternal - and that he has a plan for me.
    I even got to PLAY as him... creating armies of undead to slay more people to raise even MORE undead!
    In the end, he kills me again - revealing his plan was to raise us as an elite army.

    Aside from those things, yeah - we didn't see NOTHING of Arthas' back story or motivations.

    Cataclysm? We saw Deathwing get mad at Alextraza... and those few who did the Blasted Lands quest saw him hunt down an egg.

    Aside from that - Deathwing's cunning plan through all those zones was to shout "RAAAAAAARGH!" and burn random patches of land.
    Yes deathwing was underdeveloped. And having played the warcraft 2 expansion I honestly thought that we had already killed him back then in one of the missions. But well the death of the villain is not permanent in games

  10. #90
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karon View Post
    No content besides the raid, of course not.
    Lets just ignore the complete new questzone they added.

    After reading this statement, I stopped reading the rest.
    Looks like you missed the very next statement then:
    -Dailies were only mildly interesting.

    This points to the fact OP took into account the Molten Front.
    I never even did the prequests on any of my alts because it felt extremely painful to do those dailies twice or thrice a day. So i agree with TheDDGuides.
    You should consider reading a bit more next time.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Dax75 View Post
    so a Massive MULTYPLAYER online roleplaying game is actually a single player game hmm ok. Oh well then I can only say that for me the game is moving in the wrong direction and that is that.
    It is ok that you can do a lot of activities alone or as a single player but I just think that some endgame schould be something that players band together for to defeat. For me raids is an area that schould be a player organised activity and not something that you press a button to que for...
    If I want singleplayer RPG I would go for baldurs gate 2
    The wrong direction for WoW is the direction that kills WoW. Making group-oriented activities required will kill the game. The market and the interest is not there. There might be 500,000 people who want to play a version of WoW where you can't play the "cool" or endgame parts of the game on your own. There might (but I strongly doubt it) be 1,000,000 people who would do that. But there are definitely not 10,000,000 people who would play that game. There aren't 5,000,000. There aren't 2,000,000.

    If you want to play a game supported by a half million subscribers, you have lots of choices. If you want to play the MMORPG that dominates all the others by an incredible margin, and has done so since its release, well, I think you have to look at how the game has evolved and maybe give the designers a little credit for not turning it into a niche game like ALL OF THE OTHER MMORPGs IN THE WORLD ARE NOW.

  12. #92
    All the scrapped content and rather disappointing final raid. I think the best part of Cata was the old world revamp.

  13. #93
    i'm mad they never did a raid in that throne of the tides area. they even had a portal there

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by dremnit View Post
    i'm mad they never did a raid in that throne of the tides area. they even had a portal there
    Maybe what they had was just bad. I think that the bitching about the raid that never happened is probably about 1/10 the bitching that would have occurred if a terrible Vash raid had been deployed.

    Aside from that, 3-d zones are a cool idea but WoW is not a good 3-d game and it isn't obvious how it could be turned into one. I don't know how the people who got realm first Archaeology kept their sanity. Probably the people who did, just ignored the dig sites in Vash, or got lucky and didn't have any.

    Don't assume that because something you didn't like didn't happen, the people in charge are idiots. Sometimes, or maybe often, they are protecting you from something amazingly worse.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    The wrong direction for WoW is the direction that kills WoW. Making group-oriented activities required will kill the game. The market and the interest is not there. There might be 500,000 people who want to play a version of WoW where you can't play the "cool" or endgame parts of the game on your own. There might (but I strongly doubt it) be 1,000,000 people who would do that. But there are definitely not 10,000,000 people who would play that game. There aren't 5,000,000. There aren't 2,000,000.

    If you want to play a game supported by a half million subscribers, you have lots of choices. If you want to play the MMORPG that dominates all the others by an incredible margin, and has done so since its release, well, I think you have to look at how the game has evolved and maybe give the designers a little credit for not turning it into a niche game like ALL OF THE OTHER MMORPGs IN THE WORLD ARE NOW.
    Why exactly would making raiding a player organised activity kill the game?

    Raiding has always been a niche part of the game even with LFR now a days. I remember reading a post that 2 mio did LFR in cata that is far from those 10 mio who subscribed to the game...

    Why things that require a group would kill the game I do not know it is a rather incridibly bold statement, backed up by nothing, or would you mind showing me all your market surveys and interest focus group research that you apparently are referring to?

  16. #96
    I've always felt that there's one very simple reason for Cataclysm's lack of success -- the absence of new game features.

    We had plenty more of the same stuff we were used to (a whole lot more, really), but the problem was that the devs did nothing to change the way we play through that content. There was nothing that fundamentally altered the everyday business of logging into WoW, doing your quests, leveling your alts, or running some dungeons. It was the same gameplay with a new coat of paint.
    Every other expansion has introduced a whole ton of new systems that radically shake up how we experience the game.

    TBC had flying mounts, heroic dungeons, the justice gearing system, brand new raid sizes, daily quests, a "new" class for each faction, etc.

    In Wrath we got some massive improvements to questing, 10/25-man sizes on all raids, the concept of hard modes, far more accessible heroics, dual spec, a brand new class, a brand new type of world BG, dungeon finder, and so on.

    Pandaria has had arguably the most new features of all. Pet battles, challenge modes, another brand new class, (worthwhile) rare hunting, farming, the brawlers guild, scenarios, soon heroic scenarios, changing up how valour is acquired, and probably a bunch more stuff as the expansion continues.

    Cataclysm had... guild leveling? Did that really change the way you play? It was more like something passive that happened in the background. Archaeology? I guess archaeology counts. It was only in the final content patch of Cataclysm that we really got some awesome new features (LFR and transmogrification) that shook things up and gave the game a breath of fresh air. It's also worth noting that this was the only expansion where none of the BGs (aside from Tol Barad, perhaps) introduced a new game mode; they were just different arrangements of WSG and AB.

    I'm 99% certain this is the overwhelming reason for Cataclysm's stagnation. Simply because it did stagnate. You can argue whether many of the features I've listed are positive or negative ones in their own right, but you can't dispute that they did change the way the game was played.
    Change is good. Change is what keeps you playing the same game for eight years. It has its ups and downs, but there's always something new and interesting for you to try out, and that's what keeps your interest.

    Fortunately, given the direction of Pandaria, I think Blizzard have absolutely realised that this was the problem in Cataclysm, and since then we've been seeing a slew of game-changing updates with almost every patch.

  17. #97
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    @op:

    1. Blizzard killed 25 man raiding.

    2. WOTLK Raid guilds disbanded or switched to 10-man mode, which left many former DPS without a raid guild. Being unable to raid b/c they could find no guild, many people -including me- quit CATA.

    I only tried CATA for a month or so (I had quit back in WOTLK days) and when I returned, about 60% of my friend list returned "character does not exist". Almost all my friends had stopped playing and my WOTLK aid guild had switched to 10 man mode. They later quit too. There is no point playing a game when all the people you knew stopped playing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by det
    Apparently Cata destroyed social interaction and we don't need guilds.
    MoP continued on the same model which is one of the reasons why they are losing subs like we have told Blizzard hundreds of times already.
    Last edited by Sturmbringe; 2013-05-05 at 04:06 PM.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    - Arthas was never really shown either, it's just that much more people played WC3 than WC2.
    - It felt connected enough to me, but that's personal.
    - 4.2 - you just outright ignored a whole unique question zone, not sure if you expect to be taken seriously.
    That bit about Arthas simply isn't true. Arthas is all over the place in WotLK, and you still see him again and again when you're just leveling through. In nearly every zone you encounter him in a big way if you follow certain questlines through to completion, and you even see him in some dungeons - CoT: Stratholme obviously but also Drak'tharon Keep if you have the quests. Finally, even when you aren't looking him in the face or interacting with him directly, you are constantly hearing about him or rumors of war and wars to come. To say Arthas is never shown in WotLK is either willful amnesia or ignorance, or you're just lying through your teeth.

  19. #99
    High Overlord Deshow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezzo View Post
    It failed? oh good to know.

    In my opinion it wasn't the best expansion ever, but it didn't "fail".
    it was the only expansion where the game lost subscribers instead of gaining them, around 3 million if i remember correctly.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    Not much of a focus on how (not) good the story is.

    By the dotpoints you seem to have completely forgotten about the elemental bonds questline, and it's entirely likely that you willingly drank away those braincells after playing through the content. Same to do with most everything in Cata with Thrall.
    That's because everything to do with Thrall in Cata sucked. Oh, look, the poor Orc has doubts about who he is, and what he's done, and where his life is going. So freaking what? Every human being that's ever lived has the same doubts at points in their lives.

    You noted that you need to read the books to get a grasp on Deathwing's motives; you need to read the books to understand anything that is going on ever. Cairne's dead? Who's this Aggra? Why do we care about this twilight cult?
    Not true. I didn't have to read anything to know that the Burning Legion are demonic in nature and bad for everyone. I didn't need to read up on Arthas to know that someone named the LICH king, that controlled scores of unthinking undead, was bad for everyone. What's Deathwing's story? I don't know. I know who Cairne and Aggra are, and I didn't have to read a book to find out. And I don't care about the twilight cult. I didn't when Cata came out, and I don't now.

    And come on - half of the Twilight Highlands, the zone they're supposed to be concentrated in - was full of quests to do what? Plan a wedding. And then halfway through the zone, suddenly it was "Oh, right - better get back to those Twilight cult guys now that the party planning's done."

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