Is the European Union Finished?

[epLe]

There are very strong economies in europe (which are not a part of EU), Norway and Switzerland being the prime examples.

[shise]

No is not, and it will never be. But it's going to have several problems if they don't make the next step, which is make is like US. A big country with several states in. However that's not easy, if that happens countries such as Germany couldn't keep exploiting the rest in order to solve their own problems.

On the other hand, I'll be leaving this scam as soon as I can. I see no point to stay here unless you live in one of those countries like the example I just gave.

I mean, anyone who can't see this really have a brain problem; the EU was a great idea, but it's been turning apart in the last years, it has nothing to do with this so called "crisis", it was all planned and now it's showing up, proving itself. I'ts not conspiracy btw, it's pure economy + politics + corruption. At the end, the big companies are leading Europe, requesting money when they should actually put it in order to make countries grow and allow people to properly live.


Isn't it curious how they no longer show anything about Greece on TV? Or Iceland...




(Oh, and btw, those idiots who think that we, the countries in crisis, made it ourselves living over our posibilities, should get some clues. Italy has been out of the democratic model for some time and Spain has never ever got a democratic system, all we do is have elections once every 4 years and we can only pick one out of two parties, period. We have been on the streets, we have done anything you'd do to get a democratic country but teh government keeps refusing to allow such thing. Spain is a country leaded by companies and those companies hide behind politics, corrupted politics able to sell a country for some fast money for their pocket. Where the fuck is the European Union to help us?

And again, btw, I am not agaist EU, not at all. I am pro Europe, pro the original idea of Europe, but I am not with this scam)

[Deleted]

Who am i missing? Im sure switzerland isnt in the EU and i dont think belgium could carry the weight

In addition to Germany and France, there is also for example, Italy and Spain which can be considered as economically large countries

[Funkyjunky]

There are very strong economies in europe (which are not a part of EU), Norway and Switzerland being the prime examples.

Both Norway And Switzerland pay to the EU. While they aren't fullblown members, they still are involved in some parts.

[yetgdhfgh]

In addition to Germany and France, there is also for example, Italy and Spain which can be considered as economically large countries

Sadly both countries are so far in debt that im sure germany will be calling in the repo men to repossess madrid and rome!

[Deleted]

Who am i missing? Im sure switzerland isnt in the EU and i dont think belgium could carry the weight

Well pretty much every country north of the alps are strong economic countries, compared to population. And some of those countries have markets that they are almost the sole owners of. So there are in a sense a strong economic in europe besides Germany and France.
Which is why EU should have been split in north and south, since they pretty much consist as two very different populations and workforces.

[Wikiy]

I'm not sure whether it's going to collapse but I sure as hell hope not because as flawed as it currently is, the EU is currently the only candidate for a federate Europe and when it comes to politics that's definitely the thing I want most, even more than gay marriage (and I'm gay). If it does collapse, I really hope the Schengen Area, the Erasmus student exchange and a lot of other cool aspects of the EU remain as they are.

[yetgdhfgh]

Well pretty much every country north of the alps are strong economic countries, compared to population. And some of those countries have markets that they are almost the sole owners of. So there are in a sense a strong economic in europe besides Germany and France.
Which is why EU should have been split in north and south, since they pretty much consist as two very different populations and workforces.

Im not doubting the strength of the nordic countries economically its just i cant see them sustaining the whole EU without the german and the french

TBH i wouldnt be surprised to see the nordic countries break away and form there own union

[shise]

I'm not sure whether it's going to collapse but I sure as hell hope not because as flawed as it currently is, the EU is currently the only candidate for a federate Europe and when it comes to politics that's definitely the thing I want most, even more than gay marriage (and I'm gay). If it does collapse, I really hope the Schengen Area, the Erasmus student exchange and a lot of other cool aspects of the EU remain as they are.

In my uni in Spain they don't know if they'll have Erasmus the next year. It's most likely not going to happen, but it's not 100% sure yet.

[Deleted]

So with the gains of the Anti European party the UKIP in Britain .....

We don't hate Europe, we don't hate the Union, we hate the way it is run and that we are being told how to run our own country in such a fashion that it suits all else but it's inhabitants.

We took up a flatshare but it just isn't working out guys. We've found ourselves a nice little private place so we're moving out but we'll stay in touch and you're totally welcome to come over to visit once we're settled in.

[yetgdhfgh]

We don't hate Europe, we don't hate the Union, we hate the way it is run and that we are being told how to run our own country in such a fashion that it suits all else but it's inhabitants.

We took up a flatshare but it just isn't working out guys. We've found ourselves a nice little private place so we're moving out but we'll stay in touch and you're totally welcome to come over to visit once we're settled in.

Its a common misconception that us Brits hates europeans we dont we love you its just we like to run our own shit without interference

Wether that interference is real or not is debatable

[Deleted]

Im not doubting the strength of the nordic countries economically its just i cant see them sustaining the whole EU without the german and the french

TBH i wouldnt be surprised to see the nordic countries break away and form there own union

Well the old alliance with trade of materials and food did quite well (Denmark, Norway, Sweden, UK, France and Germany). The nordic countries do pretty much have all the natural resources and farming to sustain themselves. But I also know that Denmark and Sweden have a enormous export to Germany (around 55-60 % of all trade goods), so having to go back to borderfees would hurt a hell of lot.

[Deleted]

Without the EU, countries like Germany, UK and France would have been bankrupt by now. Don't forget how much money those countries all received over the years.

I don't think the EU will ever fall, it might reform though, aka dropping the bad countries out of the system till they redeem themselves. But then again the grade D countries were always known to have a bad effect on the EU zone but Germany and France decided to get us in that mess because they didn't want to have their investments in those countries go up in smoke.

[Deleted]

Dubel post ignore

[Kendrel]

The euro was always a bad idea; without a completely federalized Europe that is.

The EU as a whole seemed like a pretty good idea, but the way its been constructed/ the way the parliament works, with proportional representative leaves room for many people to be disillusioned with it.

UKIP isn't making huge ground in the UK because people are against the EU; they are making huge ground because at bi-elections people always protest vote against the leading parties. Now that the Lib Dems are in government, UKIP is the 4th option. Whilst the EU exists, most countries need to be a part of it for trade; its as simple as that. The EU is an mandatory economic black hole, pulling other countries in out of necessity.

I'm not certain that I disagree with you, but I do think there is an inherent danger of writing off UKIP as just another protest vote. This may have been the case when they were a 1 policy party, but now they've introduced a raft of policies that would enable to effectively manage a government (obviously EU referendum is still their flagship policy) they are becoming more of a threat.

Remember, the SNP were originally written off as a protest vote and they're pretty much here to stay. It matters not whether people actually want Scottish independence (poll still suggest the majority of Scots don't even after years of SNP in power), but they are different to the main parties and they seem to get most of the job done in a way that most of the 'main' parties can't and a great number of similarities can be drawn between UKIP and the SNP. In fact I would go so far to say that they've identified the reasons for SNP's success and have adapted them.

We're living in a period where popularity > substance in everyday life, not just in politics. Politics has just wound up having to adapt itself to modern culture - our PMs (and opposition) have become younger (and I suppose you could argue more attractive for publicity, but it would be a pretty tenuous argument), the party now focuses more on the head of the party rather than policies, and they're all targeting that LARGE middle ground to the point where Left/Right in politics doesn't exist anymore and most parties are desperately trying to camp so close to either side of that middle line that there is very little difference between them.

It doesn't surprise me at all that parties are springing up that occupy more of that Right side, and Left side, as it differentiates them and makes them more appealing in the face of the ineptitude of those that just target the middle.

I'm in a tricky situation where I detest the EU political structure (love the people, traveled all round Europe and had a whale of a time in most countries), but don't want to leave as I'm pretty sure we'd suffer greatly without it. But the EU is currently one of the most undemocratic bodies in the Western world, where integration and economic policy have been conducted without the input of the people themselves, and voting for those that become MEPs is actually difficult because they're so far removed from the usual democratic process that most citizens just don't know how to affect that structure.

I don't think the EU is finished, I think like the Euro it will continue just from sheer force of will rather than it being the right thing to do.

[Tuor]

Sadly both countries are so far in debt that im sure germany will be calling in the repo men to repossess madrid and rome!

I see a lot of people speaking about Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy... How about Belgium?? No ever speaks about a country that a this time as a debt of 120% of its GDP...

And this is the main problem of the EU, some are forced to beg for money, where other get excess economic quotas and can grow at the costs of others...

The current model of the EU, exists only to serve the interests of a few... The ones able to negotiate excess quotas for their own countries.

[Deleted]

Too many powerful countries interested in keeping things the way they are so no, not gonna happen, even though the countries that are suffering economically would benefit from stepping outside of the EU.

lol.. someone doesn't know what he's talking about.

Countries like greece are mining money from the support they get from EU, any other countries than the piss poor ones are better off without EU.

[Deleted]

The big thing about the currency union was that it was the first alternative reserve currency to the dollar It allowed every country in the EU to borrow at very low rates, less than what their growth would ever justify simply because there was massive worldwide demand for a second reserve currency.

The fact is, we are slowly moving to diversified reserves. The largest hedge funds now hold significant reserves in real, yuan and even ruble. The Chinese have been buying their way into the World Bank steadily. If at some point in the future developing countries start divesting of dollar and euro reserves for a more diversified background, this massive yet artificial demand for those two currencies will be eroded. I'd really love to grab some popcorn and watch the fallout . . . but I expect the fallout will be WWIII so no popcorn for me

The odds of WWIII in our time is close to nill. Unless brainwashing on large scale becomes a thing.

[Deleted]

Who am i missing? Im sure switzerland isnt in the EU and i dont think belgium could carry the weight

The Benelux is quite a rich part of Europe, added together, their GDP would be bigger then the UK's/France/Germany GDP.

[Deleted]

Sadly both countries are so far in debt that im sure germany will be calling in the repo men to repossess madrid and rome!

Spain, maybe, but Italy actually contributes to bailing out other economies, so get your facts right.

In fact this whole thread is full of errors, ignorance and a fundamental lack of political-economic knowledge.....