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  1. #41
    Ok, now that the discussion is pretty much just about 5.3 (and that's clear)...

    You'll GAIN the following:

    1)- Your moves cost 40% less damage during blades. Since blades is a wee bit longer and off the global, we can assume this is the whole kill cycle.
    2)- Your global cooldown on the moves that matter will be reduced down to 0.7 seconds, down from 1 second.
    3)- Rupture and Recuperate will gain duration as if they had an extra CP used as well. (fixed)
    4)- The gemming is a little bit nicer IIRC.

    You'll LOSE the following:

    1)- Your big pool of energy. Currently you gain +30 energy for the pvp bonus, this will drop. A sub rogue will have 100 energy max instead of 130.
    2)- Deadly Brew. You won't have cripple for free while you run paralytic. I would assume any gibby setup such as this would be running the +10 damage taken whilst stunned anyway.
    3)- Two +PvP Power set bonuses. Both the 2pc and the 4pc should be this, unless that got changed.
    4)- All the inherent PvP Power on the items.
    5)- You'll probably miss out on the improved recuperate glove bonus. If you choose to keep that, you'll have to run the hat/chest/legs (the big pieces) as well as the shoulders, so you'll be missing a few more stats.

    I think we'll see around +30% PvP power in full PvP gear post patch. Can anyone run some math to see what that will shrink to if you discount out the set bonuses and the raw stats on the items? I can't wowhead right now, but you can just sum up the PvP Power on the ptr.wowhead.com values for the 496 chest / legs / shoulders / gloves, plus the 2 and 4 piece bonus power, and then we can divide that number by 400, and that will at least give us the base percent missing (relative percent you want to divide the new bonus by the old bonus).

    I don't think it's surprising if we get a more powerful blade cycle with the 496 PvE downgraded gear, because the set bonus is very strong. I do think it's surprising if that really makes up for the PvP stuff. Hrm.
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-05-08 at 07:41 PM.

  2. #42
    496 vs. other 496 gear. I don't think (I could've missed it) there was any assumption people would be using heroic tier in order to get the ilevel bonus - the conversation's really been directly about pvp power vs. 4-set PvE bonus, which is exactly what matters. If people were talking ilevel advantage in 5.3, that's a bit silly.
    Thing is, I was talking since the beginning about how things are *currently*, i.e. with 535 heroic gear, except when I mentioned 5.3. And when I did mention 5.3, I was comparing it to the current situation, which mean a loss of 39 iLvl for those 4 pieces.

    To summarize my point more clearly: 4p is *currently* very good in some situations where you can guarantee a kill during the small Shadow Blades window, but above all where time spent outside of this window doesn't matter much, either because you can kite and hide or because sustained (or at least less peaky) DPS is not needed. Said situations being random BG, outdoor PvP and 2s. It is *NOT* viable in """real""" PvP, which I consider being mostly 3s and (while less significant) 5s. When you are not under Shadow Blades' effect (93% of the time), it is much better to be in full PvP gear, because you will do much more damage, and in the same time will take much less damage. As for RBG, my experience with the 4p bonus is very limited, but from what I've seen and in my opinion, it doesn't worth it.

    Now, comparing the current situation with what it will be in 4.3 with the iLvl scaling, it will *clearly* not worth it. Even if pvp power is nerfed by roughly 35% (250 > 400, but every piece of gear will gain 3 iLvl, which should increase the global pvp power ratings), other stats on pvp gear won't be changed, or, rather, they will be slightly increased (493 ilvl > 496). But on the other hand, you are losing 39 iLvl on the 535 Heroic T15 pieces. Seeing that the current 42 iLvl worth of agi + secondary stats increases don't make up the loss of PvP power (you hit harder with full malev than you do with full malev but 4 heroic t15 pieces, while not under Shadow Blades' effect), removing this iLvl difference will make it deal no damages.

    3)- Any finisher you cast will count as +1 combo point. This means that a kidney shot as sub at 5 points would be 7 seconds instead of 6 seconds, and an eviscerate will be 1.2x as big.
    It doesn't affect eviscerate, only finishers with durations (snd, rupture, ks, recuperate; doesn't affect crimson tempest neither).

  3. #43
    Pffff you think I'd know that. Fixed.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draigars View Post
    Now, comparing the current situation with what it will be in 4.3 with the iLvl scaling, it will *clearly* not worth it. Even if pvp power is nerfed by roughly 35% (250 > 400, but every piece of gear will gain 3 iLvl, which should increase the global pvp power ratings), other stats on pvp gear won't be changed, or, rather, they will be slightly increased (493 ilvl > 496). But on the other hand, you are losing 39 iLvl on the 535 Heroic T15 pieces. Seeing that the current 42 iLvl worth of agi + secondary stats increases don't make up the loss of PvP power (you hit harder with full malev than you do with full malev but 4 heroic t15 pieces, while not under Shadow Blades' effect), removing this iLvl difference will make it deal no damages.


    It doesn't affect eviscerate, only finishers with durations (snd, rupture, ks, recuperate; doesn't affect crimson tempest neither).
    It's no secret you lose out on sustained damage. But since the damage of a rogue outside of cooldowns is already a joke anyway that hardly matters.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-08 at 10:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I think we'll see around +30% PvP power in full PvP gear post patch. Can anyone run some math to see what that will shrink to if you discount out the set bonuses and the raw stats on the items? I can't wowhead right now, but you can just sum up the PvP Power on the ptr.wowhead.com values for the 496 chest / legs / shoulders / gloves, plus the 2 and 4 piece bonus power, and then we can divide that number by 400, and that will at least give us the base percent missing (relative percent you want to divide the new bonus by the old bonus).
    I have about 35% on PTR /w full PvP.

    Edit: 36.83% with gear equipped, 27,42% without it. Honestly at not even a 10% damage loss, I would definitely take theise setbonuses.
    Last edited by Holo; 2013-05-08 at 10:43 PM.

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