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  1. #1
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Looking for a Rogue with T15 4set to test

    The energy cost of Ambush in Shadow Dance.

    And the energy cost of Eviscerate.

    If I got this right, and the blades bonus applies on the base cost before the Dance bonus, Ambush should cost 16 energy in Dance. And Eviscerate should cost 21 Energy.

    Got that right?

    Or does the bonus apply after Dance bonus, meaning Ambush should cost like 24 energy?

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  2. #2
    The Patient Linneth's Avatar
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    Ambush 24 energy. Eviscerate 21 energy. 0,7 GCD.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linneth View Post
    Ambush 24 energy. Eviscerate 21 energy. 0,7 GCD.
    Wait what?

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  4. #4
    The Patient Linneth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Wait what?
    It's part of the bonus, even if not stated by the tooltip. It was put so Combat wouldn't cap like crazy during AR+SB, but it also applies to Subtely and Assassination bonus.

  5. #5
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linneth View Post
    It's part of the bonus, even if not stated by the tooltip. It was put so Combat wouldn't cap like crazy during AR+SB, but it also applies to Subtely and Assassination bonus.
    From the gear? Really?

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  6. #6
    The Patient Linneth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    From the gear? Really?
    You get the reduced GCD only while Shadowblades is active with the 4p T15.

  7. #7
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linneth View Post
    You get the reduced GCD only while Shadowblades is active with the 4p T15.
    In before every PvP Rogue out there walks PvE 4set. 11 GCD's with time to spare in a dance? That's insanity.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-05 at 11:29 PM ----------

    Alright, I made an energy scheme for the lowest posseble energy to start bursting like this, taking into account the fact that eviscerate requires energy to cast even though it ends up rewarding energy.

    e = Energy
    24 energy for Ambush
    21 Energy for Eviscerate

    Here goes:

    Code:
    0.00 seconds Ambush: 95e - 24 + 7
    0.70 seconds Ambush: 76e - 24 + 7
    1.40 seconds Eviscerate: 59e - 21 + 7 + 25
    2.00 seconds ER: 70e + 8
    2.10 seconds Ambush: 78e - 24 + 7
    2.80 seconds Ambush: 64e - 24 + 7
    3.50 seconds Ambush: 47e - 24 + 7
    4.00 seconds ER: 31e + 8
    4.20 seconds Eviscerate: 38e - 21 + 7 + 25
    4.90 seconds Ambush: 49e - 24 + 7
    5.60 seconds Ambush: 30e - 24 + 7
    6.00 seconds ER: 13e + 8
    6.30 seconds Eviscerate: 21e - 21 + 7 + 25
    7.00 seconds Ambush: 32e - 24 + 7
    7.90 seconds Ambush: 24e - 24
    *Above has been adjusted as of 5/7/2013 21:30 GMT due to a major miscalculation. Thanks to Shadowboy

    Ending Shadow Dance sequence with 1 Energy.

    Now take into account that Ambush does about 70k damage on average, and Eviscerate about 90k.. that comes down to a whopping 900k Damage in just 7.7 seconds. If you get even 1 more Crit than you should, you're going to look at the millions.

    Oh and eh, this is without autos.


    Not even a Shield Wall is going to save you from this one.


    This is worrying... to say the least.
    Last edited by Holo; 2013-05-07 at 08:31 PM.

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  8. #8
    Yes. you can burst down people VERY fast with four set and pvp gear I'm suprised no one really noticed it yet lol

  9. #9
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enhshamanlol View Post
    Yes. you can burst down people VERY fast with four set and pvp gear I'm suprised no one really noticed it yet lol
    In 5.3 it's not going to cost you any survivability either.

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  10. #10
    The 2 piece also makes kidney shot last 7 secs.

  11. #11
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    The 2 piece also makes kidney shot last 7 secs.
    That is hilarious. Definite saps out of kidney, or just pump a million damage into it. Problem officer?
    Last edited by Holo; 2013-05-06 at 01:47 AM.

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  12. #12
    It is just too much. It can go two ways:

    - it remains unnoticed by the masses, so not much damage (very unlikely)
    - everyone gets this info, everyone tries it and it proves to be effective, hellanerf to the ground for the set bonus (hoping for a PvP only nerf like the FW one).

    Nerdrage and screams in both of the cases.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    It is just too much. It can go two ways:

    - it remains unnoticed by the masses, so not much damage (very unlikely)
    - everyone gets this info, everyone tries it and it proves to be effective, hellanerf to the ground for the set bonus (hoping for a PvP only nerf like the FW one).

    Nerdrage and screams in both of the cases.
    I'm just surpised no one has really noticed it other than people that have the gear,

  14. #14
    Oh, I assure you people have noticed.

  15. #15
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draigars View Post
    Oh, I assure you people have noticed.
    You don't really see anyone use it, hence.

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Now take into account that Ambush does about 70k damage on average, and Eviscerate about 90k.. that comes down to a whopping 900k Damage in just 7.7 seconds. If you get even 1 more Crit than you should, you're going to look at the millions.
    Stop talking lies Holo, 70k average ambush and 90k average eviscerate? Where have you seen them? Are you doing PvP with people who have bad PvE gear?

    My(Tyrant/Malev gear) recount on malev/tyran PvP gear:
    (they're with Shadow Blades)

    Average Ambush:
    -31k normal (81%),
    -78k crit (19%),
    (simple math: 39,930 average hit)
    Average Eviscerate:
    -48k normal (78%),
    -98k crit (22%)
    (simple math: 59,000 average hit)
    Last edited by Eazy; 2013-05-06 at 05:03 PM.

  17. #17
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Even if you HALF the numbers, that is still 500k damage without autos. After resilience. Anything but shield wall - like cooldowns will not save you from this.

    And that is from 1 player. You can just ignore a shieldwall given you burst together with someone else.

    That is, if the numbers would be half worth what i estimated them to be. Nevermind if i'm anywhere near.

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Now take into account that Ambush does about 70k damage on average, and Eviscerate about 90k.. that comes down to a whopping 900k Damage in just 7.7 seconds. If you get even 1 more Crit than you should, you're going to look at the millions.

    How much do you get in a normal dance? Please remember you can pool higher with the pvp bonus.

    Then we'll want to adjust for the PvP power lost. That will involve removing gloves, shoulders, and then likely pants and chest.

    Not even a Shield Wall is going to save you from this one.
    Wouldn't it? I mean, remember resil really cuts this down!


    This is worrying... to say the least.
    Maybe. I would definitely recommend bringing 535 if you have it. But are you seeing rogues doing this? And do you think you will in 5.3, with the gear shrunk down to 496?

  19. #19
    Those avg dmg numbers seem little high for our low crit, the find weakness nerf, and the pvp loss using 4 piece pve. But yes still a lot dmg once every 3mins and weak dmg anytime outside of that. On top of the weak mobility with shadowstep not getting peeled during blades be very unlikely. Also Its funny holinka is acting like shadowstep mobility is on power with all other melee mobility. Shadowstep needs double charges or 15sec cd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    But are you seeing rogues doing this? And do you think you will in 5.3, with the gear shrunk down to 496?
    Only 5.3 rogues would be doing it

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Even if you HALF the numbers, that is still 500k damage without autos. After resilience. Anything but shield wall - like cooldowns will not save you from this.
    Now I can agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    And that is from 1 player. You can just ignore a shieldwall given you burst together with someone else.

    That is, if the numbers would be half worth what i estimated them to be. Nevermind if i'm anywhere near.
    It seems really op to be honest, I'm not really sure if it'll be worth to use LFR version of this gear.

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