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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Chikinitos View Post
    Nope, I am not bagosham lol, I rarely post here but I got curious about your build. So you don't use a haste build for progression?
    Noone in their right mind does. Progression is about surviving the fight first, and after that maximising your output. This is why most world firsts are at the last second till berserk kills. They first go in to NOT DIE, and afterwards focus on how to kill the boss faster.

  2. #42
    In Throne of Thunder most of the top DK's along with myself would recommend that Stamina > Mastery is best for progression. You should only consider going anything think other (such as haste) once you have all the bosses on farm and are very well geared. This would also only be used for beating your records time's when not worrying about dying from too much damage or lack of healing.

  3. #43
    I agree for the most part in terms of 25H content, but 10m is a bit different. A tank isn't really in danger of dying in 10m in most situations, and the damage they do is a larger % of the raids total damage. In hardcore 10m guilds I can see going afte dps stats as a viable way of play IF and i mean IF you know what you're doing and can pull it off without dying. 25H is a bit more risky, and tank damage in 25H in addition to doing less in terms of overall raid DPS make "standard" tank builds more optimal. I know there are plenty who would disagree with me on it being optimal, but there it is.

  4. #44
    Other than Horridon HC I don't see any fight that would require stamina stacking in 10H.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  5. #45
    Probably the best choice for Tortos as well, not that the tank damage is so high that it's required in any way.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    I agree for the most part in terms of 25H content, but 10m is a bit different. A tank isn't really in danger of dying in 10m in most situations, and the damage they do is a larger % of the raids total damage. In hardcore 10m guilds I can see going afte dps stats as a viable way of play IF and i mean IF you know what you're doing and can pull it off without dying. 25H is a bit more risky, and tank damage in 25H in addition to doing less in terms of overall raid DPS make "standard" tank builds more optimal. I know there are plenty who would disagree with me on it being optimal, but there it is.
    I agree with you as a 10M main tank, I use trinkets that proc for STR and use rune of fallen crusader + haste after mastery and soft caps. I have very little loss in mitigation and my DPS sky rockets, I solo the bats on Tortos thx to this build. But ofcourse, it all comes down to the Raid's Eco system, In our raid, we constantly run with 3 heals, so they don't mind tanks doing this.

  7. #47
    @topapagaramonde Could you link your armory? Want to give haste a try, but not too sure about how far you got to take it.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by topapagaramonde View Post
    I solo the bats on Tortos thx to this build.
    How does a gear setup affect add tanking °_°
    Str levels can't compare to vengeance.
    Haste does little to nothing for aoe since it's fairly cheap.
    And tbh I think the best stats for aoe tanking are avoidance stats since they allow you to replace DS with BB.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  9. #49
    Here you go:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...monde/advanced

    I go for haste mostly to keep fallen crusader as 100% uptime and rely on my trinkets to do more dps and swap between stam and str flask based on the fight. I also ranked on Tortos last night with 375k dps

  10. #50
    Strength gems , Outbreak glyph , Runic Empowerment ..... this is so painful to look at °_°
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    How does a gear setup affect add tanking °_°
    Str levels can't compare to vengeance.
    Haste does little to nothing for aoe since it's fairly cheap.
    And tbh I think the best stats for aoe tanking are avoidance stats since they allow you to replace DS with BB.
    I would encourage you to read my entire post and not take it out of context, when out of context, it will not make any sense and the conversation will not go anywhere. Str does matter, not as much as vengeance but it helped enough to push out even more dps, avoidance has its place but in a fight where the add tank has to stay above a certain HP mark and there are un-avoidable raid damage incoming, its always nice to game up some really strong/heavy blood shields when needed. But again, it worked for me because my healers love healing and would like to keep the 3 heal structure intact.

    The beauty of tanking in MoP is that there is no simply "correct" build, it all depends on your group comp and need.

  12. #52
    My question to everyone who's advocating Strength/DPS gemming to 'get more DPS'.

    What the hell are your actual DPS doing?

    Strength gems , Outbreak glyph , Runic Empowerment ..... this is so painful to look at °_°
    Hey, I like RE gaming.

    Yes, I actually said that. >_>
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  13. #53
    High Overlord rhapso's Avatar
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    Haste has its uses, but don't go all out on haste - you get gcd capped already at around 10% or so, depending on latency etc. If you want to do damage, cheese vengeance in tankgear or swap to Fallen Crusader / DPS trinkets.
    What doesn't kill me gives me Vengeance.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...psody/advanced

    DK Guide to LK 25 Heroic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixa6Tyqd-oY

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by topapagaramonde View Post
    I would encourage you to read my entire post and not take it out of context, when out of context, it will not make any sense and the conversation will not go anywhere.
    You made it sound like your gear choice magically affects your add dps on a fight like tortos (where judging by your logs you're probably over 200k vengeance already...) - where is the context that I am missing?
    Quote Originally Posted by topapagaramonde View Post
    I go for haste mostly to keep fallen crusader as 100% uptime and rely on my trinkets to do more dps and swap between stam and str flask based on the fight. I also ranked on Tortos last night with 375k dps
    So you managed to get ranked on tortos using a strategy that no one in their right mind would use unless they're missing a second tank that night or are overgearing the fight (you wiped 16 times that night woopdeedoo)
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    Hey, I like RE gaming.

    Yes, I actually said that. >_>
    It worked well enough in Cata, but without the old BT it's just crap - way too random and useless without a second proc.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-05-07 at 07:02 PM.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  15. #55
    I don't want to press another button for 2H Frost though. Blood Tap feels so ridiculously clunky. :<
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  16. #56
    Ya works well enough for 2H frost since it's similar to Cata blood - just doesn't work well for MoP blood.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  17. #57
    I still like it better then Blood Tap for Blood. >_>

    Granted, I'm really only ever blood for 5-man JP farming and Soloing Old Content in DPS gear anyways, so get a nice, hefty grain of salt for my opinion there.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    How does a gear setup affect add tanking °_°
    Str levels can't compare to vengeance.
    Haste does little to nothing for aoe since it's fairly cheap.
    And tbh I think the best stats for aoe tanking are avoidance stats since they allow you to replace DS with BB.
    STR trinkets give you both DPS/avoidance,
    ROFC gives him both DPS/avoidance/self-healing
    Haste adds both DPS and adds a tiny bit of survivability as well,

    It's not the gear setup that affects add tanking, just reading your second reply to him this is more of a problem with reading comprehension than him making it sound like something else.

    It's the mentality, the gearing/tanking strategy that affects his DPS > which affects his (add) tanking.

    By going for DPS trinkets, a DPS runeforge and actively pursuing (haste which is mainly) a DPS stat he's able to actually 'cheese' even more vengeance out of add-tanking and is able to solo the bats. It's very easy to understand.

    Just judging by most of your replies I'm thinking you see everything solely from a HC progression perspective. It's time to start thinking outside of that box.
    The dragons' flame sealed my fate. The world of the living can no longer comfort me.

  19. #59
    By going for DPS trinkets, a DPS runeforge and actively pursuing (haste which is mainly) a DPS stat he's able to actually 'cheese' even more vengeance out of add-tanking and is able to solo the bats. It's very easy to understand.
    The point is that he can cheese more vengence with more defensive stats, which coupled with the fact that FC/haste adds relatively little damage probably means that the sturdier build ends up doing more damage to them.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellkung View Post
    1) STR trinkets give you both DPS/avoidance,
    2) ROFC gives him both DPS/avoidance/self-healing
    3) Haste adds both DPS and adds a tiny bit of survivability as well
    1) It's a proc to gain avoidance - overall fairly unreliable.
    2) Not denying that but the gains are minimal especially with high vengeance levels
    3) Which is fairly pointless in an aoe situations because BB being a 1-rune ability makes it near impossible to spend all runes anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellkung View Post
    It's not the gear setup that affects add tanking, just reading your second reply to him this is more of a problem with reading comprehension than him making it sound like something else.
    It's the mentality, the gearing/tanking strategy that affects his DPS > which affects his (add) tanking.
    By going for DPS trinkets, a DPS runeforge and actively pursuing (haste which is mainly) a DPS stat he's able to actually 'cheese' even more vengeance out of add-tanking and is able to solo the bats. It's very easy to understand.
    Nothing in this would be a "thanks to his build" - an optimized build for bats would focus mostly on avoidance / stamina defensive wise and on crit dps wise.
    And no matter what gearing strategy you follow solo tanking this fight a dk is kind of questionable not only due to how we're bad at surviving add damage but also because it's hard to pick up adds while tanking the boss. Paladins are insane for this because they can outthreat healers on hps and actually have the tools to aoe tank without giving up too much survivability.

    I'm not against following a dps focused mind-set in fact I'm doing that myself it's just I feel that some things are unreasonable and do you more harm than good solo tanking Tortos on progression being one of them. What I am against is advocating an unreasonable way of gearing without having any experience to back it up.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-05-07 at 10:34 PM.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

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