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  1. #1

    Did I handle this correctly?

    Yesterday, I did LFD with a tank DK guildie. we got into Scholomance heroic. I was the healer. one of the DPS was a fire mage. he wasn't a bot, because he was actually talking.

    right away, that mage started pulling trash, either bodypulling or scorching it. he even pulled trash when the tank already pulled the boss, at which point I told him "to stop pulling trash", to which he replied "calm down and heal". when the first boss just died, he also pulled the other skeleton we didn't had to pull. I asked him to stop pulling again in the corridor after the first boss.

    This got old pretty fast. he pulled an extra mob on the trash before Lilian Voss, and the resto of us went and pulled the boss while he managed to solo that trash mob.

    however, we got the last laugh. right as we killed Slate, he pulled one of those student packs using scorch. he died nearly instantly. we finished off the trash pack, then I asked him "why shouldn't we kick you?" and "1 good reason and you can stay". the tank guildie said "maybe we can let him kill himself a few more times for his repair bill." he said "rez me and i'll kill myself again". I didn't buy it though and votekicked him. I think he deserved it. After the instance, the tank said that mage was really annoying him.

    Was I in the right in this situation? I told him multiple times to stop pulling trash, and he kept going. Isn't this one of the few morally justifiable reasons to votekick someone, if they aren't listening and are hindering the group?.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Craakar's Avatar
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    Of course you were right, I believe if someone wants to pull before the tank, they should have rolled a class and/or spec that can tank. The good thing is you asked him to stop and he didn't, that's when you kick

  3. #3
    I'd have vote kicked him as soon as he kept pulling and gave attitude over it.
    Obviously due to timer you have to wait for after first boss, but after that I woulda voted.
    I admire your restraint in waiting so long to kick the jerk.

    I can't stand DPS that pull trash, I have 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 2 DPS, and it drives me nuts when I'm on any one of them and the DPS or worse the healer is pulling...

    If I'm on my rogue or hunter I MD/Tricks to that person and pull as much as I can and then boot them.(after warning others in group to stay back)

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  4. #4
    Just let em die often, it gets the message across.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Thundertom's Avatar
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    I don't think people realize that for some people 5 mans are a way of practicing their skills. This means that for some it might be practicing how to tank/pull or how to heal, or how to dps.

    It's incredibly annoying when a dps (or a healer (or a tank)) decides to take on some role which isn't theirs to fulfill.

    Sure, you can probably get away with it. Sure you can tank stuff as a dps class in 5 mans and not die, because, well, 5 mans aren't that hard. But it leaves other roles in the group unable to fill theirs properly.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrooge McDuck View Post
    Yesterday, I did LFD with a tank DK guildie. we got into Scholomance heroic. I was the healer. one of the DPS was a fire mage. he wasn't a bot, because he was actually talking.

    right away, that mage started pulling trash, either bodypulling or scorching it. he even pulled trash when the tank already pulled the boss, at which point I told him "to stop pulling trash", to which he replied "calm down and heal". when the first boss just died, he also pulled the other skeleton we didn't had to pull. I asked him to stop pulling again in the corridor after the first boss.

    This got old pretty fast. he pulled an extra mob on the trash before Lilian Voss, and the resto of us went and pulled the boss while he managed to solo that trash mob.

    however, we got the last laugh. right as we killed Slate, he pulled one of those student packs using scorch. he died nearly instantly. we finished off the trash pack, then I asked him "why shouldn't we kick you?" and "1 good reason and you can stay". the tank guildie said "maybe we can let him kill himself a few more times for his repair bill." he said "rez me and i'll kill myself again". I didn't buy it though and votekicked him. I think he deserved it. After the instance, the tank said that mage was really annoying him.

    Was I in the right in this situation? I told him multiple times to stop pulling trash, and he kept going. Isn't this one of the few morally justifiable reasons to votekick someone, if they aren't listening and are hindering the group?.
    I see absolutely nothing wrong with what you did... I most likely would have been inclined to votekick him the 2-3rd time you told him to stop pulling stuff. But thats just me... righteous kick I'd say.. Good job.

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  7. #7
    I'm a mage and I only do pull stuff if I can nearly kill it alone (that's no big deal with the numbers DDs do right now). If I need 1 or 2 small heals that should not be a big problem. But I would not pull with scorch which does low damage and should only be used while moving

    If you do have some gear you shouldn't always insist on tanks pulling. Once we did half of the Mogushan heroic dungeon with 2 DDs and 1 Healer including the last boss. Stuff in there doesn't do THAT much damage and in most cases you are steamrolling through the content.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundertom View Post
    I don't think people realize that for some people 5 mans are a way of practicing their skills. This means that for some it might be practicing how to tank/pull or how to heal, or how to dps.
    Does that mean I can kick monk tanks doing 100k+ dps in heroics when I'm dpsing since I can't get through my rotation at all? Or tanks that picks up single mobs and not require external help as healer? Or resto druids using HotW? Or maybe the mage was trying to practice his cleaving?

    Sure, in this case it seems like OPs mage was just jerk, but it isn't that simple.

  9. #9
    I've been kicked for literally soloing a dungeon on my mw monk. I got "I'm the tank I have to pull" and it is garbage. If you have a 528 ilvl healer with you and you pull 1 mob at a time, it's just disrespectful. If you can't keep up I could careless. When I'm doing 50%+ the damage and tanking everything why would you kick someone like that?

  10. #10
    The Patient
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    I tend to go with the philosophy of "you pull it you tank it". However i'm usually in the situation where the rest of the group are too slow, and i'm already at the boss when they're catching up
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  11. #11
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    You did it right. I say that even if he's capable of tanking it, there is no reason for him to step outside of his role and make the rest of the group upset.



  12. #12
    High Overlord Somnophore's Avatar
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    Lately had a similar issue: was levelling my Priest through Utgarde Keep and a hunter (why are it always hunters/mages?) kept pulling before the tank did.

    I just stopped healing him. He eventually pulled the third pack in the first room with the huge forge (the last pack that you don't need to do to get to the door) and died. Since none of the other groupmembers were anywhere near that pack, we didn't get aggro.

    I told him to let the tank pull and set the pace for the dungeon. He eventually released and left on his own account as I was not running back to rez him.

    Eventually was a fun run while the other random members where actually engaging and giving each other tips how to improve.

  13. #13
    you did the right thing. You could not have handled it in a better way. On a good day, i would have voted to kick him after 2 boss. On a bad? Would have declared war on where ever he lived, and kicked him as soon as i could. Yeah there is ia reason at some point i had a Kick CD on 6 hours. Some people, are just selfish, and think it is fun, to do what they want. And so even if you and the tank, nicely ask him, he will just say Lol, or even swear at you for asking him to do something.
    So yes you did. I would have stopped healing him if i could not have kicked him
    (i am 20 and dyslexic so yes i suck at spelling)

  14. #14
    I would have kicked him much earlier.

    It's fine to goof around and pull when you're with buddies or if the tank and healer are OK with the extra work. But trying to force the pace like that is just rude.

    I've been known to ask for a vote kick on people who pull for me, and if the rest of the party isn't willing to kick 'em I will drop group and I'll take the deserter debuff without a second thought. I can get another dungeon in a microsecond once the debuff wears off, and the VP are not worth the hassle.

    I can and will happily carry a group full of fresh 90s. I refuse to carry an ass who won't listen.

    The odds of them getting a better tank than me are fairly microscopic, since most raid tanks don't do LFD these days. Most of the time I don't have to drop the group.

  15. #15
    He probably wanted to clear the instances faster. I bet he was top DPS and OP just failed to mention.

  16. #16
    Can you please stop telling us how fast you would have kicked him?
    As far as I know the tanks role is to hold aggro, and soak damage. At what part does it say that they are the ones who HAVE to do the pulls?
    Why was the TAUNT ability invented? It was given to tanks, so they could pick a target off another player to make the target focus on the tank.

    How many of you remember when you had hunters or other ranged dps pulling a mob, so the tank could TAUNT the target off him?
    I bet you don't.

    Justifying the kick by saying the tank is the one who is supposed to do the pulls, is wrong.

    Justifying the kick by saying that he slowed down the group, was a hindrance and annoyed you by doing something that was not in favor for the group, is correct.

    You did the first.
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Are you really looking for logic in a game that sends you dragons via the mail service?...

  17. #17
    Normally as a tank when I see people pulling mobs, I take it as a hint that I am pulling too slowly. Especially when the healer does it. I try not to make these situations happen too often; I simply pull faster than the rest of the group is able to, still keeping in mind how many mobs I can survive.
    I think that far too many tanks take it as an offence to have some trash be pulled. For example, I NEVER heal dungeons because they are just filled with slow tanks that don't want to finish the instance.

    In this specific case I think you were right. Some of that trash was not needed or wanted at that time, for example the trash after Voss.

  18. #18
    Tbh, idk why you'd come here to seek reassurance that you did the right thing. If it's as cut-and-dried as you're trying to spin it, not many people would have qualms with it.

  19. #19
    I think OP is correct. Normally, if there is a kickable offense - ninja pulling, needing on greens etc - we'll boot right before the last boss, or even wipe and then boot, if they try to ninja pull the last boss.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Somnophore View Post
    Lately had a similar issue: was levelling my Priest through Utgarde Keep and a hunter (why are it always hunters/mages?) kept pulling before the tank did.

    I just stopped healing him. He eventually pulled the third pack in the first room with the huge forge (the last pack that you don't need to do to get to the door) and died. Since none of the other groupmembers were anywhere near that pack, we didn't get aggro.

    I told him to let the tank pull and set the pace for the dungeon. He eventually released and left on his own account as I was not running back to rez him.

    Eventually was a fun run while the other random members where actually engaging and giving each other tips how to improve.
    While leveling it's easily justified pulls by wanting the xp from the mobs, off easy kills. You are the idiot in this situation. 3 elite mobs roughly equals the xp you get from finishing a dungeon. Killing 3 mobs is less time consuming than finishing the entire dungeon. You're losing XP by not killing the "ninja" pulls.
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Are you really looking for logic in a game that sends you dragons via the mail service?...

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