Agi vs. Secondary stats for RoRo

[Jocias]

With the Rune of Re-origination, do secondary stats pull ahead of agility for the purposes of gemming? All of the reforge programs that I've used to get my haste and crit within 1 or 2 rating of mastery seem to do so at the expense of agility. Is it a DPS increase to dump around 2k agility for secondary stats with the rune?

[Serendepityz]

yes, with RoR you stack secondary stats to the point outside of the proc your just a wet noodle

[Crevan]

Point for point, agility is your strongest stat, regardless of whether or not you have the Rune. This means that you will not be replacing your 180 agi wrist and 140 agi boot enchants with mastery. It also contributes to your damage all the time, and not just during the 20%ish uptime of the Rune. In terms of gemming - yes, you'll go for secondary stats most of the time. Pure stats in yellow sockets, green gems in blue (haste/crit/mastery + hit) and orange in red sockets (agility/expertise + haste/crit/mastery).

A note on the latter two combinations. Gear in T15 has huge amounts of hit and expertise on it, which might lead to some problems. With regards to blue sockets, you can't really do much about it, since you have to go for gems with hit (other option is stamina - hello WotLK gemming!).

Red sockets, however, give you an option of either expertise or agility. This leads to two possible gemming strategies. If you're not swimming in expertise gear, you can gem for expertise+secondary gems to free up the secondary stats on your gear for Rune-specific reforging (you can reforge out of expertise, but not our of agility). As long as you're not going over 7.5% much, you should be doing this to maximuse your crit/haste/mastery. If you can't stay at or under the cap with expertise gems, go for agility+secondary.

[Reiketsu]

I agree with most of what you said Crevan, but I would rather gem hit + other secondary stat vs. Stamina + other secondary stat. Even with excess hit, it would still benefit your DPS because it will lower the chance for your white swings to miss as Stamina will just increase your health (Maybe make your Touch of Karma hit for a little more, but not really ideal).

[Crevan]

I'm not advocating stamina gemming, if that's what you got out of my post.

Hit above 7.5% is only useful (though "useful" is a very strong word in this case) if you're dual-wielding, which not everyone is.

[Saltycracker]

With the Rune of Re-origination, do secondary stats pull ahead of agility for the purposes of gemming?

Yes, for the purposes of gemming.

[Miuh]

let's say for example (and this isn't the right fact but just an example with numbers).

1 Agi is worth 1 in stat weight
1 Sec stat is worth 0.7
So agility is still worth more than secondary stats BUT with gems you get double the amount of secondary stats than primary stats, so taking my previous numbers : 160 agi is worth 160, and 80 agi + 160 sec is worth 192 (80 + (160*0.7)) so sec stats > agi

[Lefrog]

It truly depends which version you have and what uptimes you are looking at tbh. RoR Doubles the effect the two lower stats and puts it into your primary secondary.

i.e. If you have mastery as your highest stat then:

Haste weight = (2*RoR Uptime*Mastery weight) - (RoR Uptime*Haste weight) + (RoR Downtime*Haste weight.)

Though this really depends on how your sim calculates mastery weight. You might have to just replace RoR Uptime*Mastery weight by something that takes into account that you are popping tigerseye at the end of the RoR Uptime for an increased duration.

With enough uptime, haste/crit can beat out agi point per point and it may be worth enchanting them over agi enchants. This effect is compounded when taking a look at gems since secondary gems are already twice the value or primary stats. It wouldn't be surprising if you see sims recommend not even going for agi socket bonuses.

[Jocias]

If I could post links, I'd link my armory. If anyone wants to check my gems, reforges, enchants, etc., my character is Lazule on the US-Turalyon realm.

Though this really depends on how your sim calculates mastery weight. You might have to just replace RoR Uptime*Mastery weight by something that takes into account that you are popping tigerseye at the end of the RoR Uptime for an increased duration.

I don't really trust Simcraft anymore for my monk. It gives agility a value of around 4, haste around 3, crit around 2.5 and mastery around 2. In my experience, mastery is about as useful, if not better than, crit. I don't think the monk rotation for Simcraft is optimal, especially when RoR is taken into consideration. The formula I devised was pretty simple but basically just assumes 1 proc per minute: 5/6*[secondary stat weight]+1/2*[mastery weight]. Given the values for the secondary stats, I couldn't find any way for secondary stats to be better than my agility for enchants, but it seemed that gemming, with double the secondary stats, did pull ahead. I just wanted to be sure my math was correct and I wasn't screwing myself by gemming out of around 2k agility.

[Serendepityz]

Can't tell if serious or not. Elaborate.

1:1 Agi is better but as far as gemming goes you would wanna go secondary stats.

---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 04:34 PM ----------

Jocias's Armory from above: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Lazule/simple