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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    This notion that variability between #1 and #200 indicates the difficulty of a spec is laughable at best. One can execute a given fight absolutely flawlessly, and due to RNG fail to rank. Do you really believe the the difference in player skill of the #1 parse and the #200 parse is anything but negligible, when you have thousands and thousands of people playing fury? The "best" player in the world may post a #5 overall parse one week and then fail to parse completely the next. Did they suddenly forget how to play? You play a spec that is 100% dependent upon crit rating and enrage uptime, yet you really think you can extrapolate a large SD in parsing to spec difficulty?!
    At higher levels of gear, Fury gets less RNG, the top geared warriors around are already at 45% buffed crit, meaning they basically have a 90% chance to crit with their Bloodthirst.

    Due to the fact that our crit levels get increasingly higher, the amount of RNG we need to parse well decreases. At the very top rankings, 1-20, you can be almost sure to see basically the same people over and over again, and the reasons are simple. The top geared warriors are generally also very good players, meaning they can perform at the highest possible level, while also having the gear to take away most of the pure RNG from our rotation.

    With that said, if you look at the top parses for most fights this tier, you'll see the Padders rather then the good players topping the charts, for warriors at least. The same can't always be said for other classes.
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  2. #222
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    This notion that variability between #1 and #200 indicates the difficulty of a spec is laughable at best. One can execute a given fight absolutely flawlessly, and due to RNG fail to rank. Do you really believe the the difference in player skill of the #1 parse and the #200 parse is anything but negligible, when you have thousands and thousands of people playing fury? The "best" player in the world may post a #5 overall parse one week and then fail to parse completely the next. Did they suddenly forget how to play? You play a spec that is 100% dependent upon crit rating and enrage uptime, yet you really think you can extrapolate a large SD in parsing to spec difficulty?!
    Even taking out statistics (because math lies according to you) of parses, your argument has big gaping wholes in it.

    1. You say that you have a lot of rune management and acknowledge that our rotation takes long term consideration. The flaw here is that DK theory crafters say rune management is a waste of resources

    2. You say your rotation has the same number of abilities as our's. The flaw here is that we have a 5 ability rotation compared to your 3.

    3. You say that it is fashionable to say dk rotations are easy bec we are low now. The flaw here is that dk rotation has been notoriously easy this whole xpac (albeit awkward at times for unholy), and this has been the general consensus among all active raiders

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by ganiccus View Post
    thank god warriors have some great raid cooldowns, otherwise no serious hardcore progression guild would even bother bringing one in any heroic encounter. And it's less because their damage is meh compared to DKs/rogues/enh shamans but more that they are just so freaking soft in general. It's like any boss ability targetting a warrior does like 50% more damage than to any other melee class. Needless to say, we just downed ra-den and we didn't bother bringing a warrior at all, he would have probably died somewhere during P1 I suppose.
    As I've said earlier in the thread, a good warriors will be brought on most fights this tier. Simple, our damage to the important targets are usually the highest among the melee specs, and our burst AoE is the best in the game (Not counting high vengeance tanks).

    The only exception for this is Ra-Den, all our niches are obsolete on that fight, we can't use our burst on the balls, there is no AoE, and we don't have that good defensive cooldowns.

    Overall, we are in a good spot. The only thing we lack is a reliable defensive cooldown, in the sense that we can't use Shield Wall without loosing out on almost all of our damage, beside the fact that Shield macros are just sooo much fun.
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  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    One can execute a given fight absolutely flawlessly, and due to RNG fail to rank.
    Currently certainly not. Maybe later on somewhere when everyone has everything on farm but till that there is still some time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    As I've said earlier in the thread, a good warriors will be brought on most fights this tier. Simple, our damage to the important targets are usually the highest among the melee specs, and our burst AoE is the best in the game (Not counting high vengeance tanks).
    That sounds a bit funny stating it that way.

  5. #225
    Learnt some scum bagging tactics.. Just for kicks I went 80% on horridon and got top dps over the 3 other warlocks about 2 weeks ago. Received a warning from RL (who was a warlock) . I pointed out that he was also puttin heavy dots on horridon completely through the fight .. The only difference is that his class allows him to multi dot whilst mine dont.

    He didn't like the argument. Lol. Then I went ww glyph and timed my DR fr heroic bats on tortos. Received another raid warnin. Thank god they need me for H mageara. . So I still keep my core spot

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    Learnt some scum bagging tactics.. Just for kicks I went 80% on horridon and got top dps over the 3 other warlocks about 2 weeks ago. Received a warning from RL (who was a warlock) . I pointed out that he was also puttin heavy dots on horridon completely through the fight .. The only difference is that his class allows him to multi dot whilst mine dont.

    He didn't like the argument. Lol. Then I went ww glyph and timed my DR fr heroic bats on tortos. Received another raid warnin. Thank god they need me for H mageara. . So I still keep my core spot
    So basically they mad cuz you steal their padding damage?

  7. #227
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=799&e=1210

    My RL thinks warlock is some god class.. Thumped him on mageara even though he was padding (he claimed that it is not padding) by multi dotting multiple heads..

  8. #228
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    This notion that variability between #1 and #200 indicates the difficulty of a spec is laughable at best. One can execute a given fight absolutely flawlessly, and due to RNG fail to rank. Do you really believe the the difference in player skill of the #1 parse and the #200 parse is anything but negligible, when you have thousands and thousands of people playing fury? The "best" player in the world may post a #5 overall parse one week and then fail to parse completely the next. Did they suddenly forget how to play? You play a spec that is 100% dependent upon crit rating and enrage uptime, yet you really think you can extrapolate a large SD in parsing to spec difficulty?!
    Actually I do. The difference in ONE instance between #1 and #50 or #100 may be due to RNG. Over the course of THOUSANDS of fights that factor drops, meaning skill can actually be indicated by certain fights. That you didn't even consider that is baffling.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Actually I do. The difference in ONE instance between #1 and #50 or #100 may be due to RNG. Over the course of THOUSANDS of fights that factor drops, meaning skill can actually be indicated by certain fights. That you didn't even consider that is baffling.
    Skill = gear at BiS. A played in Blood Legion at BiS will compete the same as a player in BiS in any other guild - Assuming BiS. It comes down to skill and luck - Considering Fury is so proc heavy dependent in that ilvl.
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  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by AQrunnr View Post
    Skill = gear at BiS. A played in Blood Legion at BiS will compete the same as a player in BiS in any other guild - Assuming BiS. It comes down to skill and luck - Considering Fury is so proc heavy dependent in that ilvl.
    Skill, gear, fight strategy, and some measure of luck can determine whether you will rank, specifically in the top 10 or higher. Most warriors who have been doing a lot of the heroic bosses for several weeks now have enough gear to rank in the top 20 or so consistently I'd say. Provided the fight strategy doesn't work to their detriment.

    From the luck standpoint, really the main contributor to luck at this point is whether the Feathers trinket procs during cooldowns.
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  11. #231
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    Learnt some scum bagging tactics.. Just for kicks I went 80% on horridon and got top dps over the 3 other warlocks about 2 weeks ago. Received a warning from RL (who was a warlock) . I pointed out that he was also puttin heavy dots on horridon completely through the fight .. The only difference is that his class allows him to multi dot whilst mine dont.

    He didn't like the argument. Lol. Then I went ww glyph and timed my DR fr heroic bats on tortos. Received another raid warnin. Thank god they need me for H mageara. . So I still keep my core spot
    That's because a warlock CAN multidot horridon and not hurt their add DPS. Our first kill I went hard on horridon because we needed the extra DPS to get him down easily on the last phase. Now it doesn't really matter unless I want to beat out my current rank, so I do w/e. if you need to go hard on boss, do so. If you need to focus adds, do so.

    TL;DR your argument was flawed.

  12. #232
    Sadly Darkfriend is right. Especially demo locks with Lei Shen trinket gets a lot out of "wasting" one gcd every 90s on the boss. There's no problem with cleaving him, though.

    For the bats on tortos: when your raid tend to kite them and you hit a new spawn of adds with a well timed dragon roar you can pull aggro and they go rampage... that's a problem isn't it? Spreading dots isn't necessary as well and for the sake of his raidleader integrity he should step away from scumbagging in the first place. There are some classes who actually get something out of multidotting (even on wrong heads on Megaera) but those are owls and shadows, not warlocks.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    For the bats on tortos: when your raid tend to kite them and you hit a new spawn of adds with a well timed dragon roar you can pull aggro and they go rampage... that's a problem isn't it? Spreading dots isn't necessary as well and for the sake of his raidleader integrity he should step away from scumbagging in the first place. There are some classes who actually get something out of multidotting (even on wrong heads on Megaera) but those are owls and shadows, not warlocks.
    Well to be fair while necessary might be debatable given that tortos isn't exactly a hard encounter it is entirely legit to bomb the bats for either more shards or embers as a wl.

  14. #234
    It's no question about the difficulty of an encounter. I'm fairly sure you could get away with having 1 dps fulltime on horridon the entire fight and still get everything done regulary, even more if you have the gear.

    You hit rain of fire as part of your single target rotation for embers. If you place it so that both boss and bats get hit there's no problem in that. Or havoc shadowburn on a second head on Megaera, there's also no downside in that as well.

    But my guess is that there's a point when they tend to put empowered seeds into the bats or start spreading immolate/etc -> scumbagging.
    Last edited by klausistklaus; 2013-05-25 at 05:59 PM.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    Sadly Darkfriend is right. Especially demo locks with Lei Shen trinket gets a lot out of "wasting" one gcd every 90s on the boss. There's no problem with cleaving him, though.

    For the bats on tortos: when your raid tend to kite them and you hit a new spawn of adds with a well timed dragon roar you can pull aggro and they go rampage... that's a problem isn't it? Spreading dots isn't necessary as well and for the sake of his raidleader integrity he should step away from scumbagging in the first place. There are some classes who actually get something out of multidotting (even on wrong heads on Megaera) but those are owls and shadows, not warlocks.
    My experience is that while our moonkin does more damage multidotting the second head on megaera, his damage on the priority target, the head that matters, goes down when he does so.

  16. #236
    If RNG was a huge factor in warrior rankings, than the following:

    http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/stor...gaera-10N-1002
    http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/stor...otten-10N-1002
    http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/stor...n_Qon-10N-1002
    http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/stor...sorts-10N-1002

    Shouldn't draw a line that slopes upward at a fairly consistent slope due to gear upgrades, but they all do.

    RNG is inherent in almost every spec. How a player manages RNG is the difference between a top 200 and top 20 player. Any warrior who blames proc RNG on their poor performance is either running around with 15% crit or just hasn't learned how to master the spec.

    Can GOOD rng inflate top 10 ranks? Ehhh, yeah, but not as much as many here would like to think. The 185k parse I have for 10N Megeara is an example of that, but if I didn't know how to effectively manage the good rng that was bestowed upon me, there's no way I would have done 185k. However, even if I hadn't had simply amazing RNG, I would have likely still ended up with 175k, which would have been a #5 US rank instead of #1.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    But my guess is that there's a point when they tend to put empowered seeds into the bats or start spreading immolate/etc -> scumbagging.
    Again you get soulshards for corruption ticks so...

  18. #238
    RPPM trinkets are the biggest swing in rankings now anyway. It all depends on feather procs.

  19. #239
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brakthir View Post
    RPPM trinkets are the biggest swing in rankings now anyway. It all depends on feather procs.
    MMMMM feather proc right at execute phase on Jin. MMMMM

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Brakthir View Post
    RPPM trinkets are the biggest swing in rankings now anyway. It all depends on feather procs.
    The real RNG is getting the goddamned feather to actually drop at all

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