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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    That's why we use raidofbots because it uses the median of all parses (or TOP 100 if you prefer it that way)

    RNG in pool impacts everyone. Get a large enough sample size and it will be a fair comparison.

    Which other fight do you suggest we compare this tier?
    I just don't think you can compare this far into the tier, literally about all bosses has gimmicks to it or people can cheese it by multi targetting. All people can say about it right now is how well you do compared to your own raid, and personally I can keep up with most people. Some classes do shine on literally all the fights, but that's not that case of buffing us. But bringing them down in line with us

    Edit: In terms of 5.3 I think we've been fine. The question is if we'll scale worse than the other classes coming into 5.4. Which could be the case, I dont know. Havent checked into it
    Last edited by Swaggah; 2013-06-09 at 01:18 PM.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Swaggah View Post
    I just don't think you can compare this far into the tier, literally about all bosses has gimmicks to it or people can cheese it by multi targetting.
    Debatable and always depends a bit on what you do with the data. Twins, qon, ra-den are all pretty "normal" fights - yes dots are still good on the first two there but not by an incredible huge margin as there are a couple classes performing quite well despite being not exactly known for their dot strength. Also I still don't feel that the time has progressed that far already that each and every log is "cheesed".
    Jinrokh is pretty short nowadays and I feel higher bloodlust uptime vastly favors other classes.

  3. #383
    Jin'rokh is a stupid fight. Fight length affects classes differently. For warriors to do well, you want the boss to die right before a storm, so the entire execute phase is in a pool. Other classes just want the shortest fight possible so lust uptime is as high as possible. Warriors hardly care about BL.

  4. #384
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    Cool. Will try it. I don't really use keyboard much . Prefer using mouse to click. Feels much more fluid.
    This pretty much sums it up. You sir, are what we call a clicker. Clickers never play with the precision/efficiency that a seasoned keybinder can.

    As for the talk about "Look at Jinrok'h" or "look at raid-bots"....Jinrokh is a flippin 2 min 50 sec fight for a lot of guilds. That means that classes with higher burst will put us to shame on that encounter.

    Why didn't you choose Magera where we are number 2? There are some ads there, but the point is there are several encounters in which we are very competitive. Watch Ra-den attempts by blood legion. It is basically a single target fight with hard switching to the orbs occasionally. Guess who you will see beating rogues....Soy, an amazing warrior, who I gaurentee you isn't complaining about our DPS ATM. I also gaurentee you he has his shit keybound. Nothing against you, but all you have been doing is QQing about warrior DPS when our DPS, while not ideal in every situation, is mid-pack.

    Here is the break-down:
    Jinrokh-We will be mid pack
    Horridon-We will be top damage on priority ads and doing INSANE DPS when it matters--Execute after war-god dies and it is a race against time (we have the sub-20 dmg that allows us to down the boss). Locks/priests will beat you in overall DPS, but they are dotting shit and if you look at the priority ads (IE Venom Priest), you will be higher on every single door's priority ad if you play properly.
    Council-Sit on Sul and you are putting DPS where it counts. Locks/priest will out dps you, but, YOU are killing Sul, the raid wiper and interuppting a ton of DMG
    Tortos-(We kite) Locks/Boomers/DKs....they will ALL out DPS you. They are multi-dotting, you are single target. I wouldn't even consider this fight as a DPS indicator
    Magera--We really shit on this fight. We can either kill the heads and ignore the ads (let the casters do it), and we will still do great DPS. OR we can blade-storm and compete for number one. Rally cry--invaluable.
    Ji-Kun-We shit on this. Period. Rally cry--invaluable.
    Durumu-We can either Bladestorm the walls (I discourage--let the range do it), or be very competitive on the single target and ads (we have no ramp up time and can target swap very easily. Rally cry--invaluable.
    Primordious--Top mid-pack. Roll over easy anyways.
    Animus--You will NEVER be number one on this fight, but will probably always be brought. You will do DPS to what matters (the boss) and the casters will eat your dps alive by multi-dotting. You are there to kill the boss, and give three valuable CDs. Two banners (1 offensive, 1 defensive) and a rally-cry for the jolts.
    Iron Qon--Not our best fight, but we are still strong. Your DPS should be high on the worst phase (fire) due to the incoming DMG, and the final phase (due to incoming DMG), as well as offering CDs to deal with fist smash.
    Consorts--We do great DPS in fire phase, which again, is the DMG that matters. We also offer 2 def raid cds for the nova.
    Lei Shen--We offer raid CDs to deal with static shock for our sector. We take either bladestorm for insta-dead orbs OR shockwave to control the orbs. (currently progressing on this myself, and personal survivablity seems to be an issue for some reason--still adjusting to the incoming dmg though.)

    Point is, the meters can lie. Having a boomkin/lock/priest dotting up every bat, then ignoring the turltle on tortos is just 1 example of how they can make their DPS look stupid great, but in reality, their DPS is all for show.

    My only gripe is feeling like a liability on high incoming dmg encounters. A rogue (for instance) should not take 1/2 the damage I do on Iron Qon when neither of us stood in fire or did anything silly.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Point is, the meters can lie. Having a boomkin/lock/priest dotting up every bat, then ignoring the turltle on tortos is just 1 example of how they can make their DPS look stupid great, but in reality, their DPS is all for show.
    I gUArantee you that bladestorm plays a critical role on half the encounters you mentioned as well.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    I gUArantee you that bladestorm plays a critical role on half the encounters you mentioned as well.
    "Points out mis-spelled word to validate point"

    I mentioned every encounter. You are strongly implying that bladestorm has a critical place in 1/2 the fights this tier, since 1/2 of all encounters (I mentioned every encounter) = 1/2 the tier. Since you are implying this, you are definitively wrong.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-09 at 07:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by quiks View Post
    I don't mean to come off as rude which I know I do.
    If you want to parse, that's cool, but don't try to use that as a reason to say we're fine.
    What confuses me moreso is that only a few posts earlier you had a good post that stated the opposite of the log post. Maybe I'm offbase in this.

    Nearly all of those logs are padding or scumbagging your personal dps where it doesn't need to be. You're playing for yourself, not the raid. Bladestorm has no place in this tier where it's required (except maybe horridon). You're putting damage where it doesn't need to be. You're essentially robbing other players reducing your overall raid dps or causing certain targets to live longer than they should
    Anyone can top meters by aoeing everything possible. It doesn't mean we're in a good place or that you should be doing this. You're a big numbers prioritizer, not a team player.

    Twins - bladestorming on the p2 adds is the stupidest thing ever. Those get passively aoe'd by warlocks and other classes. you should be maximizing your damage on the boss to shorten the final phase as much as possible. Cooldowning those adds is such a waste.

    Maegara - shockwave is a far better ability for sake of controlling adds, but regardless we do good on this fight due to many things.

    Lei Shen - How are your balls not being overkilled by everyone else. I can't see a reason to have bladestorm unless there's something funky going on with your ball lightning. They should be dying in 2-3 seconds every time.

    Dark Animus - Massive Anima Golem 14162971 19.3 % - are we serious here?

    Tortos - Vampiric Cave Bat 63034285 47.1 % - some damage on the bats is cool, but you're overkilling them.

    Just look at it all. It's all aoeing. Some of it is warranted, but you're far too in love with bladestorm.

    You can't say that being a good warrior is aoeing because that's all that's being showed in those logs. Aoeing isn't difficult nor does it make you a good warrior. It's just selfish play for meters.
    Quiks is better than either me or you who. See above about bladestorming. I never take it. But, that is because other classes pad more easily, where my dmg goes on what matters. The parses show padders, not meaningful damage was my whole point.
    Last edited by sjsctt; 2013-06-09 at 07:08 PM.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    "Points out mis-spelled word to validate point"

    I mentioned every encounter. You are strongly implying that bladestorm has a critical place in 1/2 the fights this tier, since 1/2 of all encounters (I mentioned every encounter) = 1/2 the tier. Since you are implying this, you are definitively wrong
    What I was pointing out is how hypocritical your whole point is of owls and warlocks pushing on tortos is when so many decent logs on megaera have reck banner brostorms in it as an example.

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    What I was pointing out is how hypocritical your whole point is of owls and warlocks pushing on tortos is when so many decent logs on megaera have reck banner brostorms in it as an example.
    The whole message of my post is that we will not light up meters right now, but that doesn't mean that our damage is bad. Our damage is amazing on PRIORITY targets.

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    Yeah I still think the execute nerf was warranted. Made warriors slightly less reliant on reaching execute phase to deal competitive damage.

    A slight buff to BT, HS and WS would be nice I think. But the main thing warriors need is a better survivability cooldown. Something like a glyph for die by the sword that reduces the cooldown to 1min but removes the 100% parry part would be nice I think.
    I'd sign a petition for this change. Would be a great thing for pve without hurting pvp.
    Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"

  10. #390
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    I'm going to use H Jin'rokh as a comparison considering:

    1. Most decent players / guilds have been farming H Jin'rokh long enough
    2. No adds and No cheese.
    3. Not a fight that depends on strat (e.g. Tortos)
    4. Was a fight where warriors used to rank highly on

    All parses:
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Jin'r...14/60/default/

    Top 100 parses:
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Jin'r...14/60/default/

    Whether you look at top 100 or the median of all parses.. we have clearly fallen back this tier. Not forgetting that since H Jinrokh and H Tortos drop our H weapons, FURY should be one of the first to grab these weapons.

    As a class, we are at the bottom. The other classes have at least one spec which rank higher than us. I think we are going to get buffed soon.. FINALLY !

    p.s: I thought it was really funny that the median top 100 parse of Rogue is more than double that of the top 100 parse of Arms warriors. Mega buffffff coming.
    That's a terrible fight to compare. For one, trinket RNG is going to be huge. Any class that has a high impact trinket proc at the right time will seem to outperform those who don't, those whose trinkets are more average but more reliable. For another, that fight favors intermittent high burst classes and classes with extendible dots, as well as any range who can move and DPS. It's a lot harder to keep 100% uptime on the boss as melee if you get lots of strikes right on the boss.

    Also, it is not possible to play a warrior well without keybinding. Heroic leap is a huge pain to click and use just on it's own. You won't be able to spam click stuff, and boy I can't even think what else. Keybinding at least SOME of your 'ish is pretty much a necessity.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-06-09 at 09:40 PM.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Debatable and always depends a bit on what you do with the data. Twins, qon, ra-den are all pretty "normal" fights - yes dots are still good on the first two there but not by an incredible huge margin as there are a couple classes performing quite well despite being not exactly known for their dot strength. Also I still don't feel that the time has progressed that far already that each and every log is "cheesed".
    Jinrokh is pretty short nowadays and I feel higher bloodlust uptime vastly favors other classes.
    I don't agree at all, if qon and ra-den are concidered pretty "normal" fights why the huge difference in dps? On iron-qon I do infact lag behind by reasons I dont quite understand myself, but on Ra-den I'm pretty beast. Like 35k difference or so -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=8146#Swagah (And I played like shit in phase2)

    I'm not sure about twins, since I can't remember if suen takes damage from the dots put on her in phase 1 or not. If she does, it can have a pretty damn significance. as well as people have started to cheese the adds in the first transition now that we have enough gear to kill Suen quickly enough
    Last edited by Swaggah; 2013-06-10 at 12:06 PM.

  12. #392
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    More GC tweets!!! Good news, he thinks we're fine!

    Warrior Fury ‏@War_Fury 9 Jun
    @Ghostcrawler Warriors terrible scal with current gear, the higher ilvl gets the larger the gap grows to other classes. Please buff some
    Expand
    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 24h
    @War_Fury I always ask that because I fear "buff us b/c of scaling" becomes a convenient way to ask for buffs when damage seems even ATM.

  13. #393
    Why is that good news?

  14. #394
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    Why is that good news?
    /sarcasm....

  15. #395
    warriors together with DKs are in a really poor state. Worst tanks and worst dps. Why does blizzard not even care?

  16. #396
    Because arms is top pvp ATM I guess...

  17. #397
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    warriors together with DKs are in a really poor state. Worst tanks and worst dps. Why does blizzard not even care?
    Wait wut. DKs are great for PVE right now.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    More GC tweets!!! Good news, he thinks we're fine!

    Warrior Fury ‏@War_Fury 9 Jun
    @Ghostcrawler Warriors terrible scal with current gear, the higher ilvl gets the larger the gap grows to other classes. Please buff some
    Expand
    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 24h
    @War_Fury I always ask that because I fear "buff us b/c of scaling" becomes a convenient way to ask for buffs when damage seems even ATM.
    GC@War_Fury What is the gap? Are you 10% more behind another class at the end of a tier than at the beginning just because of gear scaling?

    @Ghostcrawler @War_Fury Yes. Compare a 509 (end of last tier) Arms/Fury war to 548 (end of current tier). Probably closer to 15%

    So we need to be at least 10% or more behind other classes to ask for buffs? How biased is this guy ? I wonder how the other guy came up with 15% though.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-11 at 03:44 AM ----------

    Just checked raidbots on Overall 25H DPS and we are only ahead of hunters and rets by a little, and I believe rets aren't really worse than us on single target.
    Last edited by mstg; 2013-06-11 at 03:29 AM.

  19. #399
    Hunters getting 10% buff tonight

    Time to to switch to my ilevel 520 hunter!

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    Hunters getting 10% buff tonight

    Time to to switch to my ilevel 520 hunter!
    Dude, it`s not really a Hunters buff. It`s more moving dmg from Stampede(does now roughly 40% less dmg) into Arcane and Cobra Shot to nerf Hunter Burst in PvP. Female Dwarf says I´ll be doing 1,3k dps more. But thats in a Patchwerk style fight.

    tl:dr - Hunters will be doing the same dps as before the hotfix

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