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  1. #21
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    WoW only needs one more thing. Adjustable challenging solo play. That way you have a challenge in game difficulty while leveling and the more "difficult" you set the challenge, the better the fun .
    this is actually a really good feature. i'd love to be able to "finish a zone" instead of doing dailies for example.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Boatking View Post
    Although the leveling system can get boring and repetitive, trust me when I say you don't want a system like GW2. You get a main story which doesn't give you enough xp to complete it at the proper levels, and so you're forced to wander around aimlessly, hoping to find one of the regularly occurring 'random' events so you can take part and gain xp. Map completion is also important, and so you have to uncover all the areas of the map and complete jumping puzzles for 100% completion and the xp gain you get from it. I much prefer WoW's system, which at least gives you stories and reasons why you're doing things.
    yeh although people are allergic to reading so they claim otherwise

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    I don't mind leveling at all in WoW. What I wouldn't mind tho, is whenever you reached X with your first toon - you might (have a choice) get the option of equalling an alt to that level. Would be nice. Perhaps not at the exact level if there is a new expansion. But let's say that you get a toon at level 85. Perhaps with professions aswell to that level. Then again leveling profession is also good for the economy etc.

    And before people say: but you have that with recruiting a friend. Right.. so you get to bump 1 character to 80. And you need someone else to help you with that. Other then that leveling something to 85 isn't hard at all. It just takes time and far less then it used to.
    Like I stated above: the tric is to add (adjustable) challenge modes to mobs while leveling.

  4. #24
    I don't know. All I see is people who are too lazy to level a character but still want to have a max lv toon so they can raid and do PvP. That hasn't anything to do with the "system being outdated" and I don't see what's supposed to be wrong with leveling a character in WoW. You do quests, you gain experience, you level. What's "outdated" about that? I feel that some people would like to get ingame experience by complaining on forums.

  5. #25
    It is outdated and boring if you have to lvl each alt again or new character. They should do same as what they did with DKs. Each "old" class starts at lvl from previous expansion ( if you have one character at max lvl )and it should be optional.

    I agree going trough old areas doing quests you did 7+ years ago is a waste of time...

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    I don't know. All I see is people who are too lazy to level a character but still want to have a max lv toon so they can raid and do PvP. That hasn't anything to do with the "system being outdated" and I don't see what's supposed to be wrong with leveling a character in WoW. You do quests, you gain experience, you level. What's "outdated" about that? I feel that some people would like to get ingame experience by complaining on forums.
    The lack of challenge is what is wrong these days while leveling.

    Let the player(s) control the Mob's powers (from 0 to 10) in the open world and you would have a very challenging leveling experience, set at your own pace AND with awards (loot) that is bigger in relation to the MP play you choose.

    Everyone will be motivated to group up with MP10 difficulty in an open world FILLED with players tx to the CRZ.

    MP 10 too difficult? Try Mp 3 etc ...

    Leveling will be huge fun.

    Also this technique CAN be used already and is a combination of phasing (set different mob difficulty) and CRZ.

    Ideally you would want to level forever without resorting to do boring non challenging dailies ...in a world filled with players and adjustable mob difficulty.

    Imagine playing a stealth class in the open world ...and setting some boss mobs at higher levels to have bigger awards.

    Actually this idea is dynamite but I guess Blizzard is already developping it for future implentation ... .
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-05-06 at 09:33 AM.

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    that is bigger in relation to the MP play you choose.

    Everyone will be motivated to group up with MP10 difficulty in an open world FILLED with players tx to the CRZ.

    MP 10 too difficult? Try Mp 3 etc ...

    Leveling will be huge fun.
    sorry must've missed something. wtf is MP?
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    sorry must've missed something. wtf is MP?
    Monster Power - Diablo III additional difficulty system. (I think so.)

  9. #29
    Honestsly, what do you expect from questing? Sure i would love some deep story line and stuff, but really the main objective is to get you leveled, not to have whatever 1000+ quests be different, ofcourse i doubt quests are supposed to be tedious but they arent, there really isnt much wrong with them, I'd rather they spent more time on othee things
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  10. #30
    Banned True Anarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    You do quests, you gain experience, you level. What's "outdated" about that? I feel that some people would like to get ingame experience by complaining on forums.
    What is outdated about that is that it feels disjointed very often. Who the fuck really wants to focus on doing these stupid little side-quests of gathering 10 lost souls, killing 10 mogu's, gathering 10 bananas while you know that the main storyline of the zone you're in is to defeat the rising Sha threat. It is outdated in the sense that it feels purposeless.

    To me leveling in WoW feels a bit like playing the sims. You fill up your (xp instead of happiness) meter by doing randomly given tasks that don't really focus on the overall picture of where you'd like to go. Newer MMOs however make you go through a storyline, you don't feel like you leveled because you did a dozen pointless quests and gotten experience for it, you feel like you leveled because you finished a storyline.

    I'm sure many people here have played Dragon Age 1 or 2. It took you through an adventure and very focussed storyline, -this- is what newer MMOs are doing for their leveling experience. And that is what WoW isn't doing, which is making it feel very outdated.

    Leveling in MMOs originally started with "grind mobs until you level so you can move on to the next zone". WoW gave us quest-based leveling instead. But that is almost 10 years ago now... things have evolved beyond that point. The current standard of leveling in an mmo is at least at storyline-based leveling right now. And I feel that it doesn't do WoW any good to sticking to their old quest-based model. People who have been spoiled in other newer MMOs will have a hard time swallowing the old quest-based leveling model.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    sorry must've missed something. wtf is MP?
    Maxi Pad lol

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    The lack of challenge is what is wrong these days while leveling.

    Let the player(s) control the Mob's powers (from 0 to 10) in the open world and you would ave a very challenging leveling experience, set at your own pace AND with awards (loot) that is bigger in relation to the MP play you choose.

    Everyone will be motivated to group up with MP10 difficulty in an open world FILLED with players tx to the CRZ.

    MP 10 too difficult? Try Mp 3 etc ...

    Leveling will be huge fun.

    Also this technique CAN be used already and is a combination of phasing (set different mob difficulty) and CRZ.

    Ideally you would want to level forever without resorting to do boring non challenging dailies ...in a world filled with players and adjustable mob difficulty.

    Imagine playing a stealth class in the open world ...and setting some boss mobs at higher levels to have bigger awards.

    Actually this idea is dynamite but I guess Blizzard is already developping it for future implentation ... .
    To quote (more or less) Blizzard: Players will always choose the easiest path of resistance in regards to challenge. What's the point in adding this mechanic when you can almost guarantee most players will not bother with it?

  13. #33
    i would love something like the secret world. that game has the best experience system for an mmorpg.

  14. #34
    Banned True Anarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausr View Post
    To quote (more or less) Blizzard: Players will always choose the easiest path of resistance in regards to challenge. What's the point in adding this mechanic when you can almost guarantee most players will not bother with it?
    Well it's a bit off-topic but the incentive for increasing the Monster Power (difficulty) in Diablo3 is that mobs drop more and better loot and give more experience too. The only problem is that increasing the difficulty really makes a huge difference in Diablo3 ... people who might be able to easily do MP0 (normal difficulty) might get absolutely trashed at MP1 (1 out of 10 difficulty levels higher) because of lack of gear...

    That said I'm not a fan of different difficulty settings in an MMO. It's the whole Heroic/Normal/LFR difficulty split that ruined raiding for me in WoW.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausr View Post
    To quote (more or less) Blizzard: Players will always choose the easiest path of resistance in regards to challenge. What's the point in adding this mechanic when you can almost guarantee most players will not bother with it?
    Easy answer: the bigger the MP setting, the bigger the possible loot awards...

    For those who asked : MP0-10 stands for Monster Power 0-10 with 10 giving much higher % in better drops...

    With techniques like phasing and CRZ there is nothing standing in the way to introduce this into WoW these days.

    Actually it would encourage world group play, without being a necessity as you could still choose an easy solo play.

    In any case: the player sets the challenge AND way to play group or solo. With awards tied to the setting of the difficulty in random % ...

    This would be pure dynamite fun while leveling in an open adventure world WITH a challenge YOU choose.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-05-06 at 09:44 AM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    What is outdated about that is that it feels disjointed very often. Who the fuck really wants to focus on doing these stupid little side-quests of gathering 10 lost souls, killing 10 mogu's, gathering 10 bananas while you know that the main storyline of the zone you're in is to defeat the rising Sha threat. It is outdated in the sense that it feels purposeless.

    To me leveling in WoW feels a bit like playing the sims. You fill up your (xp instead of happiness) meter by doing randomly given tasks that don't really focus on the overall picture of where you'd like to go. Newer MMOs however make you go through a storyline, you don't feel like you leveled because you did a dozen pointless quests and gotten experience for it, you feel like you leveled because you finished a storyline.

    I'm sure many people here have played Dragon Age 1 or 2. It took you through an adventure and very focussed storyline, -this- is what newer MMOs are doing for their leveling experience. And that is what WoW isn't doing, which is making it feel very outdated.

    Leveling in MMOs originally started with "grind mobs until you level so you can move on to the next zone". WoW gave us quest-based leveling instead. But that is almost 10 years ago now... things have evolved beyond that point. The current standard of leveling in an mmo is at least at storyline-based leveling right now. And I feel that it doesn't do WoW any good to sticking to their old quest-based model. People who have been spoiled in other newer MMOs will have a hard time swallowing the old quest-based leveling model.
    yep, and those newer mmos are failing and falling apart all over the shop want to know why? because all that voice acted crap ends up taking away from adding real guts to the game. do you not think blizzard would have done this years ago if they thought it was the better option? anyone thinking blizzard are lazy and not noticing their surroundings need medication. they are fully aware, but unlike other companies they simply don't put in systems that are proven to 'not' be effective.

    aka dynamic events aka public quests aka rifts. gw2 bloated it to be THE game questing system of their choice and now, while you think fetching 10 bananas in wow is lame, how about fetching dem apples and fighting off the never bloody ending horde of whatever race preferred bad guy is infecting the lands associated with it like the plague.

    sorry, but when I do a quest in wow, that particular storyline big or small stays DONE. unlike gw2, my quests don't come back off cool down in 10 minutes for me to redo (except hearts of course and they are just lame as fuck). if I save that lady from giant spiders in wow, ive saved her. end of story.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Having played a good few new MMOs the past few years I can't but feel absolute dread at the idea of coming back and having to level in WoW. Even a new expansion would make me cringe purely from thinking I'd have to go through the same old dated leveling system again. Overall I'd say that other recent MMOs have majorly spoiled people and that WoW's system really doesn't live up to standards anymore.

    Do you think that the leveling system in WoW needs upgraded ? Especially with eyes on a new expansion I can't imagine anyone looking forward to yet another 5-10 hours / level through the same old system. WoW's leveling system to me can best be described as: "Kill x random boars, wolves, pirates, murlocs, monkeys, yetis, evil raiders, whatever in every new sub-zone you get sent to." It feels very disjointed and inconsistent, throwing you from one pointless little situation to the next. (Oh no, the catapults need fuel! Oh noes, some monkeys stole some crates! Oh noes, we need to gather some pine-apples for our soup! Oh noes, there are too many boars we must kill some! etc.)

    In comparison lately we've been shown the freedom GW2 leveling allowed, it didn't try to force any specific one task down your throat. Or now recently the Neverwinter or Star Wars leveling system which felt more like a single player story or campaign mode, you leveled by going through a series of very focused storylines, not by having to kill 5 wildlife in every new subzone you got sent to. Best way to describe is by thinking of Half-Life and Bioshock and imagining that you'd have earned your 60 levels while playing through the storyline of those games. Or simply think of a single player RPG where the storyline is the main focus and you generally wouldn't find a series of mini-quests about random crap for every new subzone you'd come across. Imagine the Dragon Age single player storyline being a leveling experience in an MMO.

    I feel that the leveling system they used up until now in MoP simply won't cut it anymore for a new expansion. People are used to much better by now, too many people already moaned how they hated the leveling from 85 to 90 in MoP already.

    Edit: Leveling in MMOs originally started with "grind mobs until you level so you can move on to the next zone". WoW gave us quest-based leveling instead. But that is almost 10 years ago now... things have evolved beyond that point. The current standard of leveling in an mmo is at least at storyline-based leveling right now. And I feel that it doesn't do WoW any good to sticking to their old quest-based model. People who have been spoiled in other newer MMOs will have a hard time swallowing the old quest-based leveling model.
    No. It's not outdated. People seem to think that everything they don't like is "outdated". WoW questing has gotten better over the years. Especially with MoP. But you still have to have filler quests. There are tons of ways to level up in wow. That isn't outdated at all.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  18. #38
    I can see the point of the OP, but on the other hand as many mentioned, a more singleplayer-ish approach to leveling is also not the optimal route for an MMO in my opinion. OIlike some ideas of other MMOs, but leveling for example only by crafting and never really leaving town seems wrong to me.

    But mostly im not sure if changing the leveling system this far into the game is what WoW needs. First of all it would probably almost be impossible to implement with the current infrastructure of the game or cost so much time so that new content/EXP would be delayed and kept to a minimum. Further i believe that a vast majority of the time spent in WoW is not by leveling for 99% of the players, so changing it now wouldn't make much sense. But hopefully and most certainly something they will do for Titan, were they can have a fresh start!!

    Also with all the heirlooms / XP reductions in older Content (and now also MoP), you should be able to max a char in no time if you know what you are doing. I don't like the idea of starting new toons at the last contents max level as some suggested. I think the time spend leveling should be used to learn how to play the class, which when looking at LFR clearly tons of players could use.

  19. #39
    Add flying mount at level 40
    Fast ground mount available at level 10, remove the slow
    Remove the Dire maul from LFD

  20. #40
    Stood in the Fire Zhira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Leveling in MMOs originally started with "grind mobs until you level so you can move on to the next zone". WoW gave us quest-based leveling instead. But that is almost 10 years ago now... things have evolved beyond that point. The current standard of leveling in an mmo is at least at storyline-based leveling right now. And I feel that it doesn't do WoW any good to sticking to their old quest-based model. People who have been spoiled in other newer MMOs will have a hard time swallowing the old quest-based leveling model.
    I might be missing the point, but ever since the zones rewamp, WoW's questing is pretty much storyline driven - there are some stories that run pretty much from 1 - 85(90) and each zone has it's own storyline driven by quests and then a lot of side quests.

    Z.
    Last edited by Zhira; 2013-05-06 at 09:41 AM. Reason: typos
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