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  1. #41
    the world events in gw2 are definitely cool and karma makes it fun and meaningful to quest. they should make something like that in wow, make low level JP vendors and make certain quests, like completing a chain quest, give JP. that would make it worth completing a whole quest. right now, especially with heirloom, its pretty pointless worrying about any quest rewards

  2. #42
    Guild Wars 2 leveling expirence and system is far better than World of Warcrafts, imo, yes. But it's subjective.

    World of Warcraft got a path set for you, and you can do the quests which are of the old (old, but it's still a good system) pick up, track, and then backtrack. While Guild Wars 2 is more of explore the world as you like and these dynamic events will pop up (people saying they have no clue or reason to do it needs to read and listen more because NPCs will call for help.)

    As said, NPCs will call for help. If you want even more information why they need help you can walk up and talk to them, and read through a text. They did this on purpose so every kind of player can do what they want to do. Some just want to rush, and got no time to listen or talk to NPCs, so they just rush to the big orange circle and start doing the event. Some people wants a reason, and if you want to, you can run up to the NPC and talk to him, and he will explain.
    Last edited by Klavier Gavin; 2013-05-06 at 09:50 AM.

  3. #43
    Legendary! True Anarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhira View Post
    I might be missing the point, but ever since the zones rewamp, WoW's questing is pretty much storyline driven - there are some stories that run pretty much from 1 - 85(90) and each zone has it's own storyline driven by quests and then a lot of side quests.
    It doesn't feel storyline driven to me when the quests are still grinding oriented. (Kill x mobs, gather x supplies, etc.).

    Storyline driven quests are more in the line of:
    - Go find out what is going on in this village
    - Help xxx fight off an attack
    - Find and arrest <bad guy>

    In WoW you often have these little subzones as well. In one area you're trying to feed the local pet birds, in the area next door all of a sudden your cleaning up oilpatches and gathering vegetables for Granny Ems soup. The problem probably are all the pointless and grind based side-quests instead of focusing on a storyline instead.
    "Civilized men and bloody giants."

  4. #44
    Not really out dated, just different.

    Personally i had a BLAST with both WoW and GW2.
    and so... i vote for a MIX between them:

    Random events - HELL YES, they are amazing.
    Quests - GW2 had no normal quests. Personally i'd like a few normal storyline quests in a village. Just a few to add to the whole experience.
    Hearts - The idea of hearts in GW2 is alright but the execution was extremely lame/boring. Basicly hearts were like mini-rep grinds to buy a few rewards in the form of a boring quests like event. Keep hearts but make them good engaging events that are fun to do!
    Escort quests - These are good fun in GW2 and WoW aswell.
    Quests dialog - GW2 had no normal written dialog in them events. I don't mind having no dialog in random events. But i do like them in normal quests (see my first point)

    That would be really great for me ;D
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    But do they have data showing how much fun players are having? Because surely that's what counts. You could have a game where only 1% of players can do the top raid but still everybody's having fun, and you could have a game where 100% of the players see everything but they're all bored and whining and quitting. Fun can't be quantified with straight-up data, and trying to use statistics to measure fun is a dangerous logical minefield.
    "The Perfect Raid Design Drawn by me .

  5. #45
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    So if the levelling system is outdated, and other MMOs do it better - what is it that makes people not stick to those MMOS and what does WoW do better?

    Serious question - because the things that you mentioned of "Catapults need fuel" and "Need oranges to make soup (actually it is booze)" are in fact part of storylines.

    That said, my monk in full heirlooms and the 50% XP buff combines with fully rested CAN do whatever he please. Level on daily cooking / fishing /DMF once a month, monk class daily, killing mobs for skinning. I went from 60 to 63 in HFP just by cherrypicking quests. I see the next X-pac adding class quests for all classes tbh.

    Not sure if a very lose system doesn't make people go "Now WTF am I supposed to do next" and give a very disjointed experience...
    Last edited by det; 2013-05-06 at 09:54 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Klavier Gavin View Post
    Guild Wars 2 leveling expirence and system is far better than World of Warcrafts, imo, yes. But it's subjective.

    World of Warcraft got a path set for you, and you can do the quests which are of the old (old, but it's still a good system) pick up, track, and then backtrack. While Guild Wars 2 is more of explore the world as you like and these dynamic events will pop up (people saying they have no clue or reason to do it needs to read and listen more because NPCs will call for help.)
    There is NOTHING more boring than redoing those save the world events that pop up every X minutes and pop up endlessly.

    World events were introduced in War and they are a very cheap way to show dynamic content that repeats itself until someone will pull the plug out of the server ...

    There is nothing dynamic about them and that tan flashed Ogre that popped up every 10 minutes in War will haunt me until the end of my days.

    Phasing is much more intelligent and farming for instance makes excellent use of it.

    It is now time to combine phasing technology within CRZ in WoW so you can now have some REAL dynamic events (non repeatable) across an EU/US community without the need to endlessly watch that Ogre die every 10 minutes.

    Add the adjustable Monster Power play from D3 and you'll have a unique AND challenging leveling experience in the open world of Azeroth (ty CRZ)...
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-05-06 at 10:00 AM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    There is NOTHING more boring than redoing those save the world events that pop up every X minutes and pop up endlessly.
    I can say the same about fetch questing, it's boring as hell to pick up the same quests over, and over, and over again.

    At least with the dynamic events I might not know what will pop up.

    I might know the events are there, but I might not know which one will pop up.

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    So if the levelling system is outdated, and other MMOs do it better - what is it that makes people not stick to those MMOS and what does WoW do better?
    Do you seriously think people stay to World of Warcraft because of the questing? and questing only?

  8. #48
    Legendary! True Anarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    So if the levelling system is outdated, and other MMOs do it better - what is it that makes people not stick to those MMOS and what does WoW do better?
    That's not the subject of the thread but a very different problem that other MMOs suffer from. But it can't be denied that people were super enthousiastic about the leveling experiences in these new games, some of the most casual gamers I know still fondly talk of how great they thought leveling through SW:ToR was. To me the new pinnacle of achievement is the new Neverwinter MMO as leveling system, you just go through a story, you don't feel like you're being sent from pointless chore to another. Everytime you end up in a new zone you're like "What's the next chapter of the story going to be?" instead of "I wonder which chores they'll make me do here..."

    It's probably lack of end-game that made other games fail, along with them trying to be WoW clones. Recent MMOs have been more innovative than that though and the biggest thing that sticks out for me is the different leveling systems. Even in this thread some people say how they'd really like to see certain things from GW2 leveling added to WoW, rightly so in my opinion... It never hurts to innovate.
    "Civilized men and bloody giants."

  9. #49
    Even if they did remake the whole leveling system with random events/storyline quests.. eventually you would see them all and another thread would open saying how tired you are of the same old thing and how you wished they would update it to whatever the new thing is.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Klavier Gavin View Post
    Guild Wars 2 leveling expirence and system is far better than World of Warcrafts, imo, yes. But it's subjective.

    World of Warcraft got a path set for you, and you can do the quests which are of the old (old, but it's still a good system) pick up, track, and then backtrack. While Guild Wars 2 is more of explore the world as you like and these dynamic events will pop up (people saying they have no clue or reason to do it needs to read and listen more because NPCs will call for help.)

    As said, NPCs will call for help. If you want even more information why they need help you can walk up and talk to them, and read through a text. They did this on purpose so every kind of player can do what they want to do. Some just want to rush, and got no time to listen or talk to NPCs, so they just rush to the big orange circle and start doing the event. Some people wants a reason, and if you want to, you can run up to the NPC and talk to him, and he will explain.
    dude dynamic events are triggered by player movement. if you're outside the zone or someone else isn't triggering it it doesn't happen. that's so transparent and ruins the illusion of it being so called dynamic.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post

    Let's give an example of how a leveling experience in NW works:
    - You find out a robbery is going on
    - You run over to find out what is happening, and fight your way through a bunch of bad guys to find out at the end that some thugs are trying to steal the crown
    - They managed to get away with their loot
    - You hunt them down and kill the ones involved one by one
    - You see the storyline of one of them being betrayed at helping you find the others
    - Eventually you overthrow their entire organisation by killing the leader who tried to make himself the new king

    The entire time you basically had a story being told to you and you never felt like you were being sent from pointless little task to the next one trying to kill x mobs of this then x stronger mobs and gather 5 bananas or coconuts or had to go dive to the bottom of the ocean to collect 5 pearls to make a necklace for someone.

    That is what I loved about games like Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate. You still had quests, and levels to grind out, but it was this epic story that unfolded and took your mind of off the ever present grind.

    You still have to fed ex quest with bringing some moldy old scroll from one wizard to the next, and the go here talk to old archibald the caretalker so he can open the door for you to go into the crypts but you were never told oh go into that wood over there and kill X boars, or go into that field over there and kill sheep for Y stomachs so NPC Z can make haggis with them.

    I love quests with story, it's why time and time again when I level my alts, I make it a habit of always doing the big long epic chains of quests such as bringing Thrall home to garadar (nagrand chain horde side), reforging Thorim's armor and his hammer Krollmir (sons of hodir), watching Draenosh die at the hands of arthas (wrathgate).

    But the inbetween quests are always the same old story, go here collect/kill this.

    While this is the fundamental of any quest, no matter how much sugar coating of story you slap on it, in WOW it's just so repedative. I do the same quests in Baldur's Gate 2 every time I play through it, yet I never tire of them. I know full well I am either going to have to go to this druid grove and kill this evil druid, go to this castle and kill all the trolls in it, go to this dungeon and kill this dragon, go to this tower on collect these vials or whatever, yet at no point at all during the process do I ever feel "oh great another kill X and/or collect y quest".

    Where in WOW are the epic quests like solving the skinner murders from the bridge district in athkatla and it's chilling almost silence of the lambs-esque finally in Trademeet? Where is the infiltrating the cult of the eyeless either as a pretend new faithfull recruit and learning the horrific truth about the order's master or as a conqueror hacking down the foul corrupt self mutilating fanatics becausee they are an abomination in the eyes of both the gods Helm and Torm are are rightly deserving of a bloody good smiting! where is the being offered 10000 gold to go rid some rich guy's land of ogres only to found out that the rich guy is actually a dragon in disguise and he actually sent you on a wild goose chase and wants to have a fun with you before he kills you because said dragon suffered a huge dissapointing defeat at the hands of the foster father years earlier!

    No, WOW continuously send me to go get 10 bear asses (yes it is an actual quest in Dun Morough) and to kill 10 laughing skull warlords and 7 laughing skull shamans.


    The overall story and feel of the zones in WOW I love (well most of the zones), but the way the quests are present to me really wear on me. Upon entering the zone you don't stumble upon the mutilated bodies of several beggars and low life street scum and the local town's guard are unable to solve the murders and the richer people are getting worried they might be next so the guards ask you to investigate, no in WOW you move from zone to zone, and quest hub to quest hub are are routinely send out on mindless repeatative errands to kill X and collect y.

    And this is part of why I don't like how the quests are present to you in WOW, they ARE literally presented to you as go here and kill X or collect y. I'm sure most of you here have played Ocarina of time, you know damn bloody well you are going to have to collect Kokiri Emerald 1/1 Goron Ruby 1/1 and Zora's Sapphire 1/1 and finally oacrina of time 1/1 in order to progess, yet do you ever feel bored to death with yet another collecting errand as do it. NO.

    I'm sure many of you have played Baldur's Gate 2 (it's a favourite of mine) and you know full well you are going to go into De'Arnise hold and kill the 12 or so trolls in there, yet it doesn't feel like you are completing some sort of trolls slain X/12 quest, or when you piece together the mask of King Strohm do you ever feel like you are doing a Missing Pieces of King Strohm's helmet X/6 quest? Even though I know that is exactly what that quest is, I would never compare that quest to something like "the crumbling Chamberlain" and not just because it is a weekly. It is pretty much the same thing, run around this map and collect these 6 pieces.

    But why does one quest feel like an uphill slo,g in the snow, barefeet, in both directions, carrying a 200lb packweight yet the other doesn't.
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2013-05-06 at 10:04 AM.
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  12. #52
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    WoW's levelling this expansion was fucking atrocious. It actually almost killed me getting my fourth character though it. It was linear, grindy and forced; the alternative is very slow, very repetitive 2 same dungeons over and over, or the piss poor exp from PvP. Questing was basically the only and best way to level, but it was shit.

    I enjoyed their Cata 1-60 efforts a hell of a lot more, although they awarded too much exp and there was a lot of filler still so I ended up outlevelling the good story parts because of "collect 10 bear dicks" quests, there were some really interesting characters and mini-stories (such as Fiona's Caravan in EPL) that kept you interested.

    I enjoy the levelling in GW2 a lot, I like that everything you do gives you exp so you don't feel forced to stick to one path all the way through. Yeah, it's still "quests"; you'll have to do some of the hearts, but I find I do a lot of them naturally without even thinking about it. A dynamic event pops up where the centaurs are attacking a town; by taking part in that I complete the event, and get progress towards the heart for that area. I can do crafting, gathering, pvp, explore the world and find puzzles etc.

    It's something WoW is really lacking in parts. They want us out in the world but instead of saying "here is this new land, go discover it" they go "hold our hand while we guide you on a very linear path through this new land". The lack of zone choice in MoP really emphasized that. On every character I do Forest > Valley > Kun'lai > Steppes > Wastes. The only point you ever have a choice is between Valley and Krasarang for that level. I also don't like that you go from hunting the Prince and getting all that interaction in Forest, to suddenly playing Farmville, running errands and guiding that spastic Li Li about.

  13. #53
    Legendary! True Anarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    That is what I loved about games like Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate. You still had quests, and levels to grind out, but it was this epic story that unfolded.

    You still have to fed ex quest with bringing some moldy old scroll from one wizard to the next, but you were never told oh go into that wood over there and kill X boars, or go into that field over there and kill sheep for Y stomachs so NPC Z can make haggis with them.
    Exactly. You understand perfectly what I'm talking about.
    "Civilized men and bloody giants."

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteRetro View Post
    dude dynamic events are triggered by player movement. if you're outside the zone or someone else isn't triggering it it doesn't happen. that's so transparent and ruins the illusion of it being so called dynamic.
    You know there are events that does trigger without the help of a player, right?

    There are both events that triggers with the help of a player, or there are events that triggers themselves after a timer.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Klavier Gavin View Post
    You know there are events that does trigger without the help of a player, right?

    There are both events that triggers with the help of a player, or there are events that triggers themselves after a timer.
    the fetch apples dynamic epic quest event? oh yeh im all for that man. sign me up for the true questing experience LOL gw2 is a glorified single player game with the ability to coop. that's all. its not a true mmorpg unless you think leaf people is awesome as a race.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Exactly. You understand perfectly what I'm talking about.
    Yup, it's all in the way the quest is presented to you.

    Baldur's Gate II came out in september 2000, four years before World of Warcraft. I still play BG2, I can never get tired of that game. I have been doing the same quests in BG2 for almost 13 years now, and still look forward to doing them. How many people can honestly say they still look forward to the majority of the quests in WOW 3, 4, 5 years down the track, I know the vanilla ones got changed a lot, but even in MOP over 2 years after cata hit, do you still look forward to the quests in the 1-60 zones?

    The quests themselves in WOW are not the issue, they are no different than in any other MMORPG or RPG. The only issue I have with them is they are thrown in your face in the worst way, "hey you, go here and bring me 10 spider ichors". Which brings me to the other part I hate about WOW's quests.

    DAMNIT FOR THE LAST TIME NPCs IF YOU WANTED INTACT, PRISTINE OR OTHERWISE UNDAMAGED BODY PARTS FOR YOU HOCUS POCUS RITUAL THEN FOR FUCK'S SAKE SAY SO IN THE FIRST PLACE! COS I REALLY DON"T THINK IT MATTERS IF THIS LUNG HAS A SWORD HOLE THROUGH IT!

    And what is with the logic in an animal with 4 legs not giving me a single hoof (when it wasn;t specified by the NPC it needed to be super perfect or otherwise unblemished) when I kill it. My warrior uses axes and swords, if I was told to bring back some ogre spleens or whatever then there is a small chance I could damage one in the process of killing said ogres, that's understandable, I should have to kill a few of them until I get enough ones I didn't accidently stab in the process of collecting, but come on, some of these collecting quests are beyond all reason!. I shudder every time one of my alts enters Arathi Highlands. HOW DOES A RAPTOR NOT HAVE A HEAD! IT JUST TRIED TO EAT ME WITH ONE!
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2013-05-06 at 10:24 AM.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteRetro View Post
    the fetch apples dynamic epic quest event? oh yeh im all for that man. sign me up for the true questing experience LOL gw2 is a glorified single player game with the ability to coop. that's all. its not a true mmorpg unless you think leaf people is awesome as a race.
    I can already see you're not even trying to discuss anything, you're just here to start a flame, I see no point in you trying to discuss anything.

  18. #58
    Legendary! True Anarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    but even in MOP over 2 years after cata hit, do you still look forward to the quests?
    A lot of people in my guild hated doing the MoP quests even for the first time... They just wanted the grind to be over with so they could get to the end-game. To me leveling in WoW feels like a series of chores... but playing a game like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age, Mass effect feels like going through a story instead and keeps my attention.
    "Civilized men and bloody giants."

  19. #59
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteRetro View Post
    the fetch apples dynamic epic quest event? oh yeh im all for that man. sign me up for the true questing experience LOL gw2 is a glorified single player game with the ability to coop. that's all. its not a true mmorpg unless you think leaf people is awesome as a race.
    Wow you sure have some strong arguments against the game there.

    Yep, the game SUCKS because they have a race of tree people...

    Now Panda, Cow and Wolf people.. that's what makes a game good.

    Also (although it's obvious you don't care) if you paid attention in Guild Wars 2, your role at the start of the Human zone is essentially that of a guard. You help defend what is basically the Goldshire of Tyria. It makes sense for you to go and help the local farmers with their bandit problems and a spider infestation that is stopping food deliveries to the capital.

    What doesn't make sense is being a hero who is famous and important enough to escort the Crown Prince to suddenly playing daycare with a Panda child because her uncle is off getting shitfaced.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-05-06 at 10:18 AM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    WoW's levelling this expansion was fucking atrocious. It actually almost killed me getting my fourth character though it. It was linear, grindy and forced; the alternative is very slow, very repetitive 2 same dungeons over and over, or the piss poor exp from PvP. Questing was basically the only and best way to level, but it was shit.
    Fourth? On my eighth right now and it'll be my first Horde at 90, I love the leveling still, Rare experience is pretty damn good if you're on a low pop server, also those dungeons are fucking amazing, Serpent temple and Brewery are good for leveling, As a healer with instant queues I don't think they are bad at all. MoP questing is so much better than Cataclysm and Wrath and I hope it's like this in the next expansion, Only thing I agree with you on is that the path is too linear and choosing between a zone or b zone would be cool, Like it was in Wrath a bit.

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