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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Klavier Gavin View Post
    I can already see you're not even trying to discuss anything, you're just here to start a flame, I see no point in you trying to discuss anything.
    im discussing, but its hard to discuss when clearly your stance is cemented in only what you wish to hear. in the end theres a reason why no one else on any level has adopted gw2's stupid stance of having their whole world filled with timed events. it removes the illusion of being this epic world you could change (as the devs have said which is a crock of shit) and makes for a very shallow experience.

    Final Fantasy 14 ARR is a fantastic mmo, truly one I cant wait to play day one going by my beta experiences. it also has public events, but unlike Arenanet, Square and its dev team don't talk up everything like its the second coming of Christ.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteRetro View Post
    im discussing, but its hard to discuss when clearly your stance is cemented in only what you wish to hear. in the end theres a reason why no one else on any level has adopted gw2's stupid stance of having their whole world filled with timed events. it removes the illusion of being this epic world you could change (as the devs have said which is a crock of shit) and makes for a very shallow experience.

    Final Fantasy 14 ARR is a fantastic mmo, truly one I cant wait to play day one going by my beta experiences. it also has public events, but unlike Arenanet, Square and its dev team don't talk up everything like its the second coming of Christ.
    No, you're not discussing snything, you're spilling your opinion as a fact, and everything against it is ''lol, dude-''

    Discussing is when you leave your opinion, but can also see the different good things in the others opinion. Not something like ''lol, dude, apple picking so epic.''

  3. #63
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteRetro View Post
    Final Fantasy 14 ARR is a fantastic mmo, truly one I cant wait to play day one going by my beta experiences. it also has public events, but unlike Arenanet, Square and its dev team don't talk up everything like its the second coming of Christ.
    Hahaha WHAT. You haven't paid attention to Square in the last few years then. They've been up their own arses for so long they didn't realise everyone hated their new games. It was only when they lost a fuckton of money they thought to themselves "maybe we don't make great games anymore"

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteRetro View Post
    im discussing, but its hard to discuss when clearly your stance is cemented in only what you wish to hear. in the end theres a reason why no one else on any level has adopted gw2's stupid stance of having their whole world filled with timed events. it removes the illusion of being this epic world you could change (as the devs have said which is a crock of shit) and makes for a very shallow experience.

    Final Fantasy 14 ARR is a fantastic mmo, truly one I cant wait to play day one going by my beta experiences. it also has public events, but unlike Arenanet, Square and its dev team don't talk up everything like its the second coming of Christ.
    You do realise it take YEARS to make a world filled with events yes?

    There are more and more games comming with dynamic events wether you like it or not
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    But do they have data showing how much fun players are having? Because surely that's what counts. You could have a game where only 1% of players can do the top raid but still everybody's having fun, and you could have a game where 100% of the players see everything but they're all bored and whining and quitting. Fun can't be quantified with straight-up data, and trying to use statistics to measure fun is a dangerous logical minefield.
    "The Perfect Raid Design Drawn by me .

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    That's not the subject of the thread but a very different problem that other MMOs suffer from.
    I brought other games into my response, because the OP mentioned them. Thing with "endgame" - even in WoW is: Normal and HM raiding is only done by 500 000 peeps. So 90% of the population do something else, like levelling alts and pvp. Or I should say "did" because now LFR drew in a fair chunk of ppl who never raided before.

    Sooo...if the levelling experience in other games is so great and the one in WoW supposedly outdated, I would have expected these other games to draw more "altoholics" in. Then again...these millions that don't raid (and don't even do LFR in WoW) might indeed have so little time that they rather stick with the game they are comfortable with than start all over. I can see that with myself. I was a big D2 player and hyped about D3, but I just don't have time for 2 games. For a new game I have to abandon WooW and I am too comfy in WoW
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  6. #66
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discyo View Post
    Fourth? On my eighth right now and it'll be my first Horde at 90, I love the leveling still, Rare experience is pretty damn good if you're on a low pop server, also those dungeons are fucking amazing, Serpent temple and Brewery are good for leveling, As a healer with instant queues I don't think they are bad at all. MoP questing is so much better than Cataclysm and Wrath and I hope it's like this in the next expansion, Only thing I agree with you on is that the path is too linear and choosing between a zone or b zone would be cool, Like it was in Wrath a bit.
    Uhhhhh. How can you do the same thing 8 times? Also the dungeons are bad. They're undertuned, short and devoid of interesting characters and mechanics. I do them once for the exp boost from the quests and that's about all I can stomach. My idea of fun isn't repeating content that is too easy with 4 faceless nobodies for the 8th, 9th, 10th time. I want more variety. Imagine if crafting gave you exp in WoW. There would be a reason to do it while levelling instead of just buying all the mats and powering through it at 90 for the bonus.

    MoP questing is the worst they have done so far. Wrath was great, Cata (Vashj'ir aside) was tolerable. Hyjal wasn't as good as I'd have hoped, but Deepholm and Uldum were fantastic.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Hahaha WHAT. You haven't paid attention to Square in the last few years then. They've been up their own arses for so long they didn't realise everyone hated their new games. It was only when they lost a fuckton of money they thought to themselves "maybe we don't make great games anymore"
    im well aware of square yet they didn't abandon ff14 they rebuilt it from the ground up, got in a whole new team and have stuck to their guns and proven themselves. think before speaking next time cupcake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrno View Post
    You do realise it take YEARS to make a world filled with events yes?

    There are more and more games comming with dynamic events wether you like it or not
    not as the entire replacement of questing they arent

  8. #68
    The thing I hate the most about the game is leveling. It makes no sense to me.
    To me the game begins at max level, everything before that is just a mindless grind.
    The ONLY thing that would make me somewhat enjoy the mindless grind, would be if it somehow rewarded the max level. By getting real gear for max level etc.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    In comparison lately we've been shown the freedom GW2 leveling allowed, it didn't try to force any specific one task down your throat. Or now recently the Neverwinter or Star Wars leveling system which felt more like a single player story or campaign mode, you leveled by going through a series of very focused storylines, not by having to kill 5 wildlife in every new subzone you got sent to.
    Dude, I love TOR, but say what? Sure, the voice acting/interaction made it seem like a story, but it was STILL the same type of quests. Darth Baras tells you to go talk to Commander Douchinius or whatever at Tattooine, once you get there, you talk to the commander, who sends you to disable 10 enemy water supplies. At the same outpost there will be other lieutenants and such who have quests for you to go kill 10 sand people(which leads to the bonus objective of killing 20 more sand people), go kill 10 cartel members(complete with the bonus objection of killing 20 more cartel members), recover 10 stolen droid parts(with bonus objective of killing 10 malfunctioning droids), etc. You did the EXACT same sort of quests as in WoW-kill 10 of X, recover 10 of Y, disable 10 of Z, kill tougher named mob(s)...you just had storyline in between, and when the regular quest dialogues came up, rather than just clicking accept or decline, you could choose to answer say, "I am a Sith lord, these lowly rebels aren't worth my time", "I will kill these rebels....for a price", or "When I am finished,the land will be drenched with rebel blood!"

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    A lot of people in my guild hated doing the MoP quests even for the first time... They just wanted the grind to be over with so they could get to the end-game.
    I was more referring to the redone zones, 2 years later after they were redone do people still look fondly towards doing them.

    I did rather enjoyed my time spend with Kingslayer Orkus, Dumas and Johnny Awesome and regularily do that chain on my alts as they level, but the majority of the redone versions I still slog through wishing they were better.


    Oh well, off to have Lord Jierdan Firkraaq (yes, I can spell his name off by heart, and also happen to know he is voiced by Jim Cummings otherwise know as Lorewalker Cho) offer me 10000 gold pieces for ridding his land of ogres only to be deceived for the umpteenth time while I wait for my LFR queue to pop on my alt so she can get her last sigil for 10/10 sigils of power.
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2013-05-06 at 10:42 AM.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  11. #71
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteRetro View Post
    im well aware of square yet they didn't abandon ff14 they rebuilt it from the ground up, got in a whole new team and have stuck to their guns and proven themselves. think before speaking next time cupcake.
    Game isn't even out yet>

    They have "proven themselves"

    They'll prove themselves when the game is a financial and critical success. Till then it's just more words and fluff.

    Think again, "cupcake" (doesn't make you look cute or cool btw)

    Square has been making bad games for years, not abandoning one flop doesn't suddenly make them the messiah of gaming. They are known for clinging onto shit even the flies the don't want.

    Edit: Oh but you're right, this looks soooooooooooooo interesting and compelling *eyeroll*:



    Somehow they managed to make even more tedious levelling than WoW's. Even the combat looks laborious ZzzzzZzzzz.
    There are Beta vids too, so it's not like it's changed vastly since Alpha.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-05-06 at 10:44 AM.

  12. #72
    GW2's levelling is an illusion. yes, you get xp from everything in game, BUT if you decide to ignore one or two of those pools of xp you can earn, say, ignoring gathering/crafting, you then have to grind up xp to make up for it. plus the fact you have to grind up your levels just to match the 'story' part of the game with no reason whatsoever made. no, WoW has evolved since vanilla and thank god. its a joy to play through.

  13. #73
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    It's outdated but it's also traditional. I recently started playing The Secret World and its mission system is pretty good I think. Granted there aren't really levels (but you do get skillups which are kind of like levels) but you are firstly limited in what quests you can pick; you can't just grab every quest at a hub and go grind them out. Second, your primary quest (outside of the story one) can be an action "kill/find X" quest, a stealth/infiltration Metal Gear type quest (avoid security cameras, disarm traps) or an information gathering mission (which is really neat but couldn't work in a non-modern game as well since the first mission I did you literally had to google an NPC's name to find a password on a fake corporate site that FunCom made up). The questing really flows though for the most part and IMO the best part is the side missions that you run across, because there tends to be one nearby where one quest ends, and that side quest breadcrumbs you to the next primary quest, and all the while you're doing the story quests.

    One thing I wish that WoW would incorporate though to make it easier is how they handle the "kill" quests. The ones where it's "Kill X Bandits" should automatically pop up with the next "Kill X different pirates" and then "Kill Short Jim Copper, the Pirate leader" without requiring you to go back to the quest hub to turn it in, only to have go to back to same area you were in before for the other set of NPCs that you happened to also be killing while you were finding the first group. That gets annoying.
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    One thing I wish that WoW would incorporate though to make it easier is how they handle the "kill" quests. The ones where it's "Kill X Bandits" should automatically pop up with the next "Kill X different pirates" and then "Kill Short Jim Copper, the Pirate leader" without requiring you to go back to the quest hub to turn it in, only to have go to back to same area you were in before for the other set of NPCs that you happened to also be killing while you were finding the first group. That gets annoying.
    Or better yet, just have the quest have you kill all of them for the one quest, I mean seriously? I'm going to be there anyways and the NPCs need pirate lord douchebag dead anyways, why not just the one quest with kill X of this mob, kill Y of this mob and kill boss mob Z be the one quest and give a much larger EXP on the turn in, that 3 different quests which require you to not only make several trips but probably kill more than you need to in order to complete the quest because the mobs have no doubt respawned by the time you got back the second, third or 4th time the NPC sent you to the pirate's lair.
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2013-05-06 at 10:46 AM.
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteRetro View Post
    im well aware of square yet they didn't abandon ff14 they rebuilt it from the ground up, got in a whole new team and have stuck to their guns and proven themselves. think before speaking next time cupcake.
    I have lot's of respect for both Square soft and Enix for what they have done with games.
    However, i hold a grudge against them for the way they are milking the FF series ..... The amount of FFVII spin off crap is almost uncountable ...
    I'd much rather see them spend time and money on picking up some of the other series they had going on in the past or focussing on the new games. The days Square and Enix made games as gamers seem to have been long gone and i can only hope that i am wrong ....

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteRetro View Post
    not as the entire replacement of questing they arent
    As i said it take a long time ... A new game with a full on dynamic questing experience might only be announced in 2 years.....
    Then again even if there won't be a new title with these feature i can only COMPLEMENT Arena Net for doing it as it is a huge succes.
    Last edited by Chrno; 2013-05-06 at 10:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    But do they have data showing how much fun players are having? Because surely that's what counts. You could have a game where only 1% of players can do the top raid but still everybody's having fun, and you could have a game where 100% of the players see everything but they're all bored and whining and quitting. Fun can't be quantified with straight-up data, and trying to use statistics to measure fun is a dangerous logical minefield.
    "The Perfect Raid Design Drawn by me .

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Game isn't even out yet>

    They have "proven themselves"

    They'll prove themselves when the game is a financial and critical success. Till then it's just more words and fluff.

    Think again, "cupcake" (doesn't make you look cute or cool btw)

    Square has been making bad games for years, not abandoning one flop doesn't suddenly make them the messiah of gaming. They are known for clinging onto shit even the flies the don't want.

    Edit: Oh but you're right, this looks soooooooooooooo interesting and compelling *eyeroll*:



    Somehow they managed to make even more tedious levelling than WoW's. Even the combat looks laborious ZzzzzZzzzz.
    There are Beta vids too, so it's not like it's changed vastly since Alpha.
    ive been in every beta and I also played ff14 original. believe me when I say, as far as im concerned, they have proven themselves.

  17. #77
    It would be nice if Blizz would also consider increasing bonus XP gained from monsters ( im not counting heirloom items ) when you have character thats on max lvl. So if you have 1 you gain 10% more, 2 you get 20% more, 3 you get 30% more and so on. And you get bonus form finishing quests also.. I really dont see the point in going through same quests xyz amount of times to " learn the story ". I dont have to read the book 5x, same with quests...

  18. #78
    OP is what is wrong with wow.

    "GIMME! NOW! DONE! BORED!"

    Leveling is supposed to take time / effort. Leveling is way too fast currently. You blow by quests and zones and end up doing them when they're grey/green which makes them boring and grindy. They need to tune things back to where you actually could get killed questing without doing crazy things like pulling ever mob you need all in 1 pull.
    Last edited by morfraen; 2013-05-06 at 10:59 AM.

  19. #79
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morfraen View Post
    OP is what is wrong with wow.

    "GIMME! NOW! DONE! BORED!"

    Leveling is supposed to take time / effort. Leveling is way too fast currently. You blow by quests and zones and end up doing them when they're grey/green which makes them boring and grindy. They need to tune things back to where you actually could get killed questing without doing crazy things like pulling ever mob you need all in 1 pull.
    Slowing it down would make it MORE grindy. I don't find a minute long fight against a murloc interesting gameplay.

    For a lot of people levelling is the worst part of the game; we don't play WoW to do the questing content, we play it for the endgame or PvP. What they need to do is offer more variety in zones, content type (levelling through PvP, questing or dungeons should all be the same speed for starters.. not questing vastly superior and everything else a waste of time) and better storylines with characters we like/care about. Again, a good example of this is the EPL stuff. You join Fiona and her crew as they go from tower to tower on their journey to the chapel, and that's exactly what it feels like.. a journey. I cared what happened to those characters.

    What I don't care about is if Master Foo doesn't have enough pumpkins to make a pie because Hozen stole them or something something.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by morfraen View Post
    OP is what is wrong with wow.

    "GIMME! NOW! DONE! BORED!"

    Leveling is supposed to take time / effort. Leveling is way too fast currently. You blow by quests and zones and end up doing them when they're grey/green which makes them boring and grindy. They need to tune things back to where you actually could get killed questing without doing crazy things like pulling ever mob you need all in 1 pull.
    When you play game for 8 years questing and leveling becomes stupid and not needed. Its just a waste of time. In 8 years your kid ( if you had one ) could learn how to ride car, bicycle, airplane, skates, he/she can become master in some sport, win gold medal on Olympic Games.... I dont wanna lose my time by leveling 10 character and doing 2000+ quests for the 10th time...

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