Heroic Ji-kun (10 man) - 1 or 2 nest tanks ?

[DakonBlackblade]

So Ive started heroics, got Jin rock down and this week its Ji-Kuns turn. What I want to know is if both tanks need to grab a feather so they can tank uper nest guardians (due to the timing of the stacks and stuf) or if its possibel to find a way to have only 1 tank getting a feather and using him for both uper nests ?

The reason I ask this is because if we can not have atnak going on nest 1 just so he can grab a feather we could send one extra dps on the first nest and get a hughe damage bonus on boss right off the bat.

[Deleted]

Why can't tank 2 run to the second lower nest.... and have a feather like that?
You could use this table:


Also what i have seen is Guardians are only on nests 2/4/8/10/12

[DakonBlackblade]

Why can't tank 2 run to the second lower nest.... and have a feather like that?
You could use this table:

Sorry I guess I phrased my question wrong, what I want to know is if I can use the same tank that got the lower nest guardian to get the first uper nest guardian on the first rotation. And by your table youre sending tank one to nest 1 and tank 2 to nest, what I want is not to send tank 1 to nest 1 so I can send a DPS instead.

[Deleted]

Yes, you can have one tank taking all the nest guardians allowing for more feathers for the dps, however this does result in your "main" tank having to take 3 talon rakes from time to time. Depending on how confident your healers are/how geared your tank is it might be better to save the cd(s) required for this when you need it more, but it's perfectly doable if you feel like the extra dps is worth it (it's not significantly more, since the tanks can use their extra feathers to take buffs as well).

That being said, I personally I think that boss dps is close to irrelevant for ji-kun. If you have the nest dps to reach nest 13-14 your dps will have such high stacks that they'll burn the boss down in a minute regardless of his current hp (just use all the feathers in nest 13-14 for buffs and burn the boss with bl).

Also worth mentioning that the fatboss table is suboptimal, g2 can take min. 1 more buff and you can have the tanks take them as well.

[Rubert]

I off tank ji-kun and the only nest that i go to is the 8th one. The main tank goes to all the rest and we never go above 2 stacks. The only reason i go above 2 rakes is when the main tank dies at the end. Great fight for a pally in 10m.

[RuneeBH]

Just do it like this...

Off tank goes to the 1st nest(he starts there, its a lower one)
Main tank pulls boss, takes **1** stack of the debuff, then goes to 2nd nest. (add nest)

You get your 2 tanks feathers in the first 2 nests, from then on they should be golden for the rest of the fight.

I mean..I honestly don't believe in that table, our group tried going by the table (from a tank pov) it was just too messed up and confusing, its a pretty simple fight that just requires a little calling-on-the-go...you know that the adds come at 2,4,8,12...so just adjust accordingly and send the tank who can go tank the thing and be back in time to tank before the 4th rake (tanks can easily take 3 if necessary if they just use a CD).

[Rubert]

Just do it like this...

Off tank goes to the 1st nest(he starts there, its a lower one)
Main tank pulls boss, takes **1** stack of the debuff, then goes to 2nd nest. (add nest)

You get your 2 tanks feathers in the first 2 nests, from then on they should be golden for the rest of the fight.

I mean..I honestly don't believe in that table, our group tried going by the table (from a tank pov) it was just too messed up and confusing, its a pretty simple fight that just requires a little calling-on-the-go...you know that the adds come at 2,4,8,12...so just adjust accordingly and send the tank who can go tank the thing and be back in time to tank before the 4th rake (tanks can easily take 3 if necessary if they just use a CD).

We tried this and our bear tank could barely take his 2nd stack w/o sac. A 3rd rake wouldn't have been possible for us w/ him. Wouldn't it be best if the off tank just went to the 8th nest and call it quits? 2 rakes is ez, so why not make it ez.

edit: I will add that better geared bear/tanks may easily take 3 rakes. As a pally 3rd rake means more veng and is easily taken.

Huge tip: One of the upper platforms will be slightly delayed due to the main tank taking his 2nd rake. This is not a huge deal, but make sure the dps do not aggro the nest before hes there.

[Inthislzon]

we did it this week with 2 DPS + a healer doing every nest (grab feather on nests 1 and 3) and tanks alternating who tanks each guardian.

Pally went to first nest (to grab feather), i went to second, tanked the add, and grabbed feather, pally tanked the add on 4th nest, then repeat.

After nests 9/10 are done BL and zerg boss. DPS goes down on every nest that will have feathers left (3 on nest 2 + 1 on nest 3).

Also our lock (doing nests full time) solos nest 10 and one DPS (moonkin) goes to help on nest 9.

Rakes went like this:
1 on me (pally grabbing first feather, comes up fast, gets first food buff as he's coming back, and taunts with buff)
2,3 and 4(for vengeance) on pally. 3rd rake can easily be done by timing SotR and popping AD/GotAK
5 and 6 on me
7 and 8 on pally
9 10 and 11 on me
12 and 13 on pally

and from there it's zerg time, so just swap on every second rake.

[xagonyx]

There's absolutely no reason to send two tanks on nests.

Tank 1: Start pulling the boss and soaks 1 stack, then jumps into Nest 2.
Tank 2: Soaks 2 stacks. (Minor CD on second stack)
Tank 1: Taunt boss and soaks 1 stack, then fly to Nest 4.
Tank 2: Soaks 2 more stacks. (Third stack = Big CD // Fourth stack = Big CD or external)
Tank 1: Soaks 4 stacks. (Fist stack = Unmitigated // Second = Minor CD// Third = Big CD // Fourth = Big CD or external) then jumps into Nest 8
Tank 2: Soaks 2 stacks.
Tank 1: Soaks 2 stacks.

It's all about CDs management.

Edit: Guardian's PoV

[Radio]

We just do Tank 1 on Nest 2/4, and Tank 2 on Nest 8/12, we never have to take more than 2 talon rake stacks ever.

The key is having 3 DPS + Tank 2 on Nest 1, all get feathers, tank 2 taunts immediately when he gets back and tank 1 only has 1 talon rake stack, from there we're just taunting on 2 stacks at all times and there's always a tank free to take a nest without risk of taking 3+ stacks. The only notes are that Nest 4 has to wait for Tank 1 to take his 2nd stack, but they still go early. Both nests 8 and 12 go reasonably early as well as to not make it hard to heal Quills.

Group 1: DPS DK, Hunter
Group 2: Mage, Lock, Disc
Ret Pally joins nest 1 for feathers and joins nests 9/11 to speed them up due to double nest spawning and to get feathers for burn phase.

Basic pattern is G1 odd, G2 even, Tank 1 on 2/4, Tank2 on 8/12, Ret on 1/9/11

1 - G1 + Tank 2 + Ret Pal
2 - G2 + Tank 1
3 - G1
4 - G2 + Tank 1
5 - G1
6 - G2
7 - G1
8 - G2 + Tank 2
9 - G1 + Ret Pal
10 - G2
11 - G1 + Ret Pal
12 - G2 + Tank 2
Burn

[muko]

We only use 1 nest tank.

Our pattern:

G1 = Ele Schami, Fury Warri, Heal drood
G2 = Spriest, Rogue, Mage, Disc Priest
Boss Tank Pala
Nest Tank Monk

1 - G1 + Disc Priest from G2
2 - G2 + Nest Tank
3 - G1
4 - G1 + Nest Tank
5 - G1
6 - G1
7 - G1 + Disc Priest
8 - G2 + Nest Tank
9 low - G1
10 up - G2
11 - G1
12 - G1 + Nest Tank

Only thing in this rotation you have to keep in mind is that G1 has to keep an eye on their debuff to renew feathers on nest 3 and 9.

[Tokru]

We do it exactly like the Fatboss table and I will take 4 stacks once in a fight, but that's not a problem at all.

[Dkfeinee]

One tank.

Nest : 2(down) - 4(top) - 8(down) - 12(top)


You shouldn't have issue with stacks as long as you use a pet (Wolves from ench, goule from Dk, Ele from shaman, etc...) during the pushing wind.
Because they are not affected by the wind and Ji Kun can cast his spell on them.


And use big CD if one of the tank have to take a 3rd one.

This fight is all about timing, it's always the same thing. Brainstorm a little bit with your mates and you will see that there is a lot more than "using a pet" trick

[DakonBlackblade]

The using a pet to tank a stack of the debuf during the wind seens like a good idea, are you sure that works ? Never seen anyone mention it.

[Ampere]

IMO have a tank go to the first lower nest and get a feather, and then tank swap and have the other tank go to the second lower nest and get a feather. That way if anything gets screwed up, both tanks are able to fly to upper nests to tank the adds.

[Dkfeinee]

Well you can check this video of our first kill ( Shaman enh, Tank nest group )

www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vOk5U0F17Uc

You'll probably see Ji Kun stacking on my ghoul or one of the wolf.

For what I've seen, it's working on :
- Dk ghoule
- Shaman wolves and elem ( earth and fire )
- Also works on the gnomes from the agi trinket ( but hard to know when they pop )
- Hunter pet
- Shaman totem ( occure only one time on fire totem, but right after he stacked on the tank too ( double attack ))

Probably but never tried :
- SP shadowfiend

Edit : 1:45, on "Esprit du loup"

The thing is, your tank need to be not too close, and not too far ( same as your melee ), and he needs to get in contact with ji kun as soon as the attack is done on one pet to avoid having no one in contact and Ji kun starting an AOE. Does not requiere that much practice.

[Deleted]

We only use 1 nest tank.

Our pattern:

G1 = Ele Schami, Fury Warri, Heal drood
G2 = Spriest, Rogue, Mage, Disc Priest
Boss Tank Pala
Nest Tank Monk

1 - G1 + Disc Priest from G2
2 - G2 + Nest Tank
3 - G1
4 - G1 + Nest Tank
5 - G1
6 - G1
7 - G1 + Disc Priest
8 - G2 + Nest Tank
9 low - G1
10 up - G2
11 - G1
12 - G1 + Nest Tank

Only thing in this rotation you have to keep in mind is that G1 has to keep an eye on their debuff to renew feathers on nest 3 and 9.

How does Group 1 manage to do 3 uppers in a row, with only 3 feathers? Is it possible to get from lower 3 to upper 4 using only one feather?

[Vantro]

We use 2 Tanks for nests, Never go above 2 talon rakes. Pull tank gets 1 stack and goes to Platform 2 for that add/feather, he'll also go for 4 for that add (it's delayed by half a second to take the talon rake) We have the other tank get their first feather from platform 3, have your melee dps that's sticking on Jikun get his from #1 and get lifegripped up so he can take more nutrients. Fatboss table works easily enough.

[royals]

The using a pet to tank a stack of the debuf during the wind seens like a good idea, are you sure that works ? Never seen anyone mention it.

You CAN but its dangerous. If Ji-Kun slash's a pet (Or bloodworm unfortunately) and kills it, he immediately resumes normal rotation which means if no one is in melee to be melee'd you will get another Quills. If your pet doesn't get killed and the tank makes it back in time GG. If you tank is late or the pet dies... extra quills is no bueno.

[Squishei]

The problem with taking more than 2 talon rake debuffs are because talon rake is based on weapon damage. I've seen a 4 stack of talon rake (when wiping hit for 500k) and the first stack of talon rake hit for 550k. It's pretty nuts how big the difference can be.

There's no reason not to just send a different tank for the second rotation. You always taunt on two stacks except for at the very beginning and then the tank goes. Do most groups do the 12th nest? We always just ignore it, so the second tank only goes once and burn from there.