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  1. #21
    Malkorok is a better candidate to be the one turning Garrosh as villain. Little is known about him and where he comes from, and he could very well be not an orc at all.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Anjerith's Avatar
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    Actually, the idea of Wrathion as leader of the Horde would be unexpected, at least.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisso View Post
    Malkorok is a better candidate to be the one turning Garrosh as villain. Little is known about him and where he comes from, and he could very well be not an orc at all.
    Nah, I'd prefer him just as a nutcase orc, only worse than Garrosh himself.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikame View Post
    Thanks for posting an actual cool story! I would hate to see Varian go, but that would just boil my blood enough to kill horde for years to come.
    Hey Thanks, yeah it would be the perfect kind of death for Varian- it totally vindicates him. Blizz also has a habit of killing of major NPCs in underwhelming ways too. Plus, Alliance heros need more lore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karadros View Post
    A nice story, but it needs more Sylvanas.
    I do <3 me some Sylvanas too. She was kind of an accessory to this plot- but through excision i meant to imply that she had some kind of arrangement or collusion with Wrathion this whole time. Which is why she went along with being handed over to the Kirin Tor (expecting fully to be rescued when Horde Zeppelins carpet bombed Dalaran with a newly developed Forsaken version of Scourge Blight- also incidentally a new moral low for her). Alongside that I was thinking that the imprisoned Sunreavers (if they were still there) might also be turned into undead, making the Sunreavers less of a blood elf faction and henceforth more of a forsaken/blood Elf hybrid. Aside from that, it could be that Sylvanas is the instrumental figure who is able to make Wrathions plan possible, with her high level access to the Horde's ruling cabinet and war machinery. She's also very close to the Kor'kron. She might have even approached him after Garrosh called her a bitch. I've often fancied that she might make some remark to Garrosh in his final moments for calling her that in Silverpine.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by maxilian View Post
    You know that Blizzard already said that Garrosh is not corrupted, he's just an asshole...
    NO! No they did not, Blizzard would absolutely not reveal a major plot point about a character who's turning point hasn't come yet.

    You must have picked this up from WoW Insider or something.

    Unless you can find me the source, please, please do not spread this rumor. This is not fact, this is speculation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tendou
    Also, Kodo is on fire. Bad Taurens! Fire bad for Kodo! Oh look it's dead now....oh well.
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    Blizzard, HOW DARE YOU! How dare you spend precious development time making a new, interesting feature and then turn around and try to make money off said development time. I AM ENTITLED TO EVERYTHING YOU EVER MAKE FOR FREE BECAUSE I BOUGHT THAT GAME THAT ONE TIME.
    Credit goes to Chris Hanel of The Daily Blink for the beautiful avatar picture.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    Actually, the idea of Wrathion as leader of the Horde would be unexpected, at least.
    As primarily a horde player, I could bend a knee to a goddamned black dragon. As the xpacs rolled on and he got bigger and bigger, it'd just get cooler and cooler. Balance-wise, Jaina is more than enough to counter-act Wrathion, I think. Not that plot has to be balanced- more for it to make sense.

    Broadly put, I thought the peace love and shamanism approach to the Horde introduced in WCIII was novel and cool, but am really longing for the good ol' days where the Horde was tyrannical, militaristic, and generally destructive, if not evil. It doesn't have to be disney villain hand rubbing evil- like the Horde could easily darken itself a few more shades and still feel internally justified in itself and it's practices.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 04:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Serendipity_09 View Post
    NO! No they did not, Blizzard would absolutely not reveal a major plot point about a character who's turning point hasn't come yet.

    You must have picked this up from WoW Insider or something.

    Unless you can find me the source, please, please do not spread this rumor. This is not fact, this is speculation.
    Well that's a shame, and what I thought. The above specualtion aside, it would be nice if Garrosh could die because he alienated key allies, and not because an ancient evil corrupted him.

  7. #27
    No, I highly doubt it. If he has an ulterior motive behind these legendary questlines and such remains to be seen, but becoming warchief is about as likely as Jaina's hair color going back to normal(which it won't). He's just a whelp, and as Anduin so charmingly puts it, he's only about two years old. Regardless of being a black dragon(baby) he's still one of the youngest lore characters in the game (Thrall's son beats him in that department), there's no way the Horde would suddenly become loyal to him. His legacy precedes him, he's the 'son' of Deathwing, and the Black Dragonflight has a VERY BAD rap. Hell, even I don't trust him, and I haven't even finished the first MoP legendary 'cause I don't have time to raid.

    Blizz... don't do that.... I'd rather have Zaela for Warchief than Wrathion......

  8. #28
    Brewmaster Knadra's Avatar
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    Wrathion 2016

    This would be the greatest thing to happen in WoW lore for a long time.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavannah View Post
    No, I highly doubt it. If he has an ulterior motive behind these legendary questlines and such remains to be seen, but becoming warchief is about as likely as Jaina's hair color going back to normal(which it won't). He's just a whelp, and as Anduin so charmingly puts it, he's only about two years old. Regardless of being a black dragon(baby) he's still one of the youngest lore characters in the game (Thrall's son beats him in that department), there's no way the Horde would suddenly become loyal to him. His legacy precedes him, he's the 'son' of Deathwing, and the Black Dragonflight has a VERY BAD rap. Hell, even I don't trust him, and I haven't even finished the first MoP legendary 'cause I don't have time to raid.

    Blizz... don't do that.... I'd rather have Zaela for Warchief than Wrathion......
    Acknowledging that everyone has a legitimate opinion, and that this is wild speculation that almost certainly won't materialise- Wrathion wouldn't need total Horde approval to pull this scheme off. It's basically an assisted coup- with Sylvanas working secret alongside him. Factions such as Tauren, Orcs, and Trolls who might really take issue with a black dragon warchief aren't truly in a position to choose, seeing as most of their lands are under Alliance occupation. It becomes a choice of the lesser evil- stay under Alliance occupation, or side with this Wrathion guy to throw it off. Isn't he the son of Deathwing? A dastardly black Dragon? Or is he different? He helped free the Horde from Garrosh, he is fighting the Alliance in the south, he's not like his dad, this black dragon is different.

    Of course as this fan theory plays out it turns out that indeed Wrathion lives up to his dragonflight and father's repuation for villainy.

    I guess I'm saying that it's not that implausible that a shady character might rise to prominence in the power vacuum of a military regime (with inside backing, no less). Stranger things happen.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Acknowledging that everyone has a legitimate opinion, and that this is wild speculation that almost certainly won't materialise- Wrathion wouldn't need total Horde approval to pull this scheme off. It's basically an assisted coup- with Sylvanas working secret alongside him. Factions such as Tauren, Orcs, and Trolls who might really take issue with a black dragon warchief aren't truly in a position to choose, seeing as most of their lands are under Alliance occupation. It becomes a choice of the lesser evil- stay under Alliance occupation, or side with this Wrathion guy to throw it off. Isn't he the son of Deathwing? A dastardly black Dragon? Or is he different? He helped free the Horde from Garrosh, he is fighting the Alliance in the south, he's not like his dad, this black dragon is different.

    Of course as this fan theory plays out it turns out that indeed Wrathion lives up to his dragonflight and father's repuation for villainy.

    I guess I'm saying that it's not that implausible that a shady character might rise to prominence in the power vacuum of a military regime (with inside backing, no less). Stranger things happen.
    No, you're right. It's not implausible. If this does happen I'll be resetting my hearthstone to Thunder Bluff lol. It won't be making me rage quit, but it will leave a sour taste in my mouth. At least right now I can walk in to Org and point and laugh at Garrosh 'cause I know he's about to get curb stomped. All I'd be able to do with Wrathion is walk in, heave a massive sigh of disapproval, and then go about my day.

    This is me of course. I'm entitled to my own opinion just as every other individual on these forums. No table flipping from this lady. Disgruntled and dirty looks, yes, but no table flipping lol.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    This would be the greatest thing to happen in WoW lore for a long time.
    I quite liked the nuking of Theramore. I'm taking it hopefully as a sign Blizzard is feeling more confident to take drastic developments in lore.

    Theramore was great. It was important to the Alliance- they really felt that sting, and can really feel justified in hating the Horde for that. Conversely from the Horde's perspective, it was a legitimate military target that was providing logistical support to Northwatch Incursions into Durotar.

    It's not just Horde victories that I'm enthusiastic about- I'd love to see the ALliance make a push into Tirisfal Glades and take back Lordaeron. What a kickass victory that would be for the Alliance- and the loss of Undercity would really burn the Horde. The Forsaken would be spurred into ever more frightful techniques to take back Lordaeron- I can imagine them making an awesome viet-cong style insurgency. I can imagine the Horde getting disgruntled with legions of rotting forsaken refugees filling up their towns. I can imagine people questioning why the Forsaken are even in the Horde if they're failing in their primary duty (to give the Horde a strong presence in the EK).

    Stuff like this is why I kinda want Blizz to tie WoW up, make WCIV with epic and unpredictable plot developments, then make WoW 2.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    I quite liked the nuking of Theramore. I'm taking it hopefully as a sign Blizzard is feeling more confident to take drastic developments in lore.

    Theramore was great. It was important to the Alliance- they really felt that sting, and can really feel justified in hating the Horde for that. Conversely from the Horde's perspective, it was a legitimate military target that was providing logistical support to Northwatch Incursions into Durotar.

    It's not just Horde victories that I'm enthusiastic about- I'd love to see the ALliance make a push into Tirisfal Glades and take back Lordaeron. What a kickass victory that would be for the Alliance- and the loss of Undercity would really burn the Horde. The Forsaken would be spurred into ever more frightful techniques to take back Lordaeron- I can imagine them making an awesome viet-cong style insurgency. I can imagine the Horde getting disgruntled with legions of rotting forsaken refugees filling up their towns. I can imagine people questioning why the Forsaken are even in the Horde if they're failing in their primary duty (to give the Horde a strong presence in the EK).

    Stuff like this is why I kinda want Blizz to tie WoW up, make WCIV with epic and unpredictable plot developments, then make WoW 2.
    Blowing up Theramore was a great story turning point, too bad is was pulled off so terribly in game. You don't even see any major lore characters that were involved unless you run the horde version run up to Jaina's tower before you finish and zoom your camera in to see Jaina standing with Rhonin and Kalec. Otherwise it barely followed the actual story of the book. I'll stop here, if I don't I'll start going way off topic about how much more this scenario could have followed the story. Glad they fixed later scenarios to have more story to them.

    Theramore actually wasn't all that unpredictable, but you would have had to read the comic series to see that. Garrosh goes with Thrall and Reg'har to a peace summit meeting in Theramore and remarks on how taking over Theramore would give the Horde a massive advantage over the Alliance (I'm paraphrasing). Thrall gets after him for it, and this later evolves into part of the pre-wrath event where the two of them duke in out the arena (which I missed 'cause I hadn't rolled a horde main yet XD).

    Wrathion would be pretty unexpected, especially for those of us who haven't completed the legendary questlines or don't pay attention to much of the lore voice clips posted on the forums (I'm guilty of this).

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavannah View Post
    No, you're right. It's not implausible. If this does happen I'll be resetting my hearthstone to Thunder Bluff lol. It won't be making me rage quit, but it will leave a sour taste in my mouth. At least right now I can walk in to Org and point and laugh at Garrosh 'cause I know he's about to get curb stomped. All I'd be able to do with Wrathion is walk in, heave a massive sigh of disapproval, and then go about my day.

    This is me of course. I'm entitled to my own opinion just as every other individual on these forums. No table flipping from this lady. Disgruntled and dirty looks, yes, but no table flipping lol.
    I love flipping me some tables! But yeah, seriously, I kinda like this sour taste- it means things are happening in the story. I get that sour taste already with how Garrosh is getting curb stomped. I like Garrosh, I like the way he leads the Horde, how he renovated Orgrimmar, the new Orgrimmar theme, his authoritarian and heavy handed style, his military aggression and victories, and Orc chauvinism. To me, it's very Horde. That said, a revolution in the Horde is a very bold storyline, and I am glad to see such drastic strokes being painted into lore.

    I have some reservations, like how getting Alliance help to take out Garrosh would in any sane portrayal result in the Alliance occupying Orgrimmar forever (or Varian being retard- like seriously, once Garrosh is dead, why leave?). But I'm sure they'll think of something that makes sense. Hopefully.

    But yeah, it's nice to have highs and lows, developments which go with what you want to see, release tension, and feel great- as well as developments which go exactly the wrong way and build tension. I'd like to see Baine Bloodhoof decide to leave the Horde, and Tauren no longer be rollable as new toons (old ones get grandfathered and can stay- essentially being prestigious characters from before the split). Do the Same with Darnassus, and those two cities can be hostile to everyone who hasn't grinded rep with them.

    Just unexpected radical stuff. What if one race in each faction had subfaction that splintered and betrayed the rest. Maybe Make High Elf and Dark Iron traitors palayble on the other side (don't even start me on High Elves, they're goddamned traitors no more, no less). Obviously the problem with that is that WoW would probably become World of Warcraft High Elves vs Blood Elves. Perhaps if it was a 'hero race' that like DKs had to be unlocked some how- not through a minimum level, but perhaps through some exhaustive grind or epic questline that required difficult achievements in PvP and PvE. A prestigious reward indeed.

    So rambling is more fun than work, it seems.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Just unexpected radical stuff. What if one race in each faction had subfaction that splintered and betrayed the rest. Maybe Make High Elf and Dark Iron traitors palayble on the other side (don't even start me on High Elves, they're goddamned traitors no more, no less). Obviously the problem with that is that WoW would probably become World of Warcraft High Elves vs Blood Elves. Perhaps if it was a 'hero race' that like DKs had to be unlocked some how- not through a minimum level, but perhaps through some exhaustive grind or epic questline that required difficult achievements in PvP and PvE. A prestigious reward indeed.

    So rambling is more fun than work, it seems.
    Rambling is always way more fun than work lol.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavannah View Post
    Wrathion would be pretty unexpected, especially for those of us who haven't completed the legendary questlines or don't pay attention to much of the lore voice clips posted on the forums (I'm guilty of this).
    Agreement on the Theramore stuff; the above is a really good point though, and strikes at a similar theme- that Blizzard sometimes isn't excellent at delivering lore. Cairne, I felt, was a 'blink and you'll miss it' development which really could have been deployed better.

    I think scenarios are precisely to remedy this problem. It's a tricky one, because WoW is several games in one, and not everyone plays all aspects of it. I would be all for patch-long story 'chapters' where all aspects of the game feature some facet of that patch's major lore development. Not easy to do, though, would require, restructuring, time and money- when looking at those costs, the devs doubtless then try to balance them against the perceived benefits of more palpable lore.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Agreement on the Theramore stuff; the above is a really good point though, and strikes at a similar theme- that Blizzard sometimes isn't excellent at delivering lore. Cairne, I felt, was a 'blink and you'll miss it' development which really could have been deployed better.

    I think scenarios are precisely to remedy this problem. It's a tricky one, because WoW is several games in one, and not everyone plays all aspects of it. I would be all for patch-long story 'chapters' where all aspects of the game feature some facet of that patch's major lore development. Not easy to do, though, would require, restructuring, time and money- when looking at those costs, the devs doubtless then try to balance them against the perceived benefits of more palpable lore.
    Patch-long story chapters? That would make this lore hound beyond happy (which is why it'll never happen lol). Money is the ever important issue, and WoW is still a business.

  17. #37
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    My vote goes to Rexxar! Why? Because he's cool!

    Peace out!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavannah View Post
    Patch-long story chapters? That would make this lore hound beyond happy (which is why it'll never happen lol). Money is the ever important issue, and WoW is still a business.
    Sigh I know, right? In the interest of hypothetical approaches, here's how I'd do it.

    Make sure every expansion has an Argent Tournament style daily questing zone. Rewards include cool prestige mounts and pets, but currency can also be spent on Heirlooms, and on Conquest and Valor gear (not gamebreakingly so, just a way to get 'a little extra' on top of caps). So basically it's relevant to everyone.

    Unlike the Argent Tournament, Molten front and what not, this zone is not infuriatingly repetitive. Every patch, the daily quests are updated- they involve the player in key worldwide lore developments, usually but not always relevant to the xpac main plot. Each patchload of new dailies includes one 'cutscene' daily too, with a major development or interaction between lore NPCs. Could be different for each faction.

    Blizz could totally afford to write a dozen quests and animate a cutscene once every few months. Not only would it be fun and interesting to look forward and play through each patch's dailies, but even if you didn't give a hoot about lore, you could not read the quest text, skip cutscenes and still have a more enjoyable and varied daily experience.

  19. #39
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    If Blizzard stood up there and said Wrathion was warchief, I would not be surprised.

    Keep in mind we were told he has Azeroth's best interests at heart, but his goals differ from our goals.

    What if his goal is to create the Army of Light that Velen saw? He would have to unite the Horde and Alliance, along with numerous third party factions.

    Him taking over the Horde then saying to Varian "stand aside" would be a great way to continue the HvA conflict past MoP.
    Unsubscribed 3/10/2014 - 8/14/2014.
    "Times change."

    Beware the claims of yearly expansions. It's not more hype more often, it's paying more for less. Fewer tiers, no more new levels, no more new races/classes, but an ever-increasing price tag....

  20. #40
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serendipity_09 View Post
    NO! No they did not, Blizzard would absolutely not reveal a major plot point about a character who's turning point hasn't come yet.

    You must have picked this up from WoW Insider or something.

    Unless you can find me the source, please, please do not spread this rumor. This is not fact, this is speculation.
    Actually, there was a blue post that said:

    I saw an article about Garrosh, questioning his being Corrupt. It had some pretty good arguments that sided against it. I'd post the link if it were allowed, though I'm not sure if I am so I won't. The way it is being built up seems to point towards corrupt though. What's your take on it?

    So many Warcraft villains are corrupt or possessed. Garrosh? He's just a bad apple. Everything is a weapon to him. Even the sha.

    Here the link, go to the lore part

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...5-2-and-Beyond

    Note: Serendipity next time try to say that you don't agree or believe what i say in a nicer way, you can irritate someone if yell at someone...

    And sorry to disturbe you, that's a fact not an especulation...
    Last edited by Maxilian; 2013-05-06 at 04:18 PM.

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