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  1. #1

    Blood Tap vs RE vs Runic Corruption

    I've been wondering of late which of these 3 is better for PVE raiding and PVP for Blood, Frost and Unholy?

    I know there are each different and offer unique rune gen mechanics and also more control depending on the talent.

    Blood Tap for example gives you full control of your runes and offers more survivability as Blood. Its good for DW Frost since you get to spam a lot of Frost Strikes. I am not too sure when it comes to 2-H though. I've been using Runic Corruption.

    I don't like the random nature of RE though I've been use to it during WTLK. I've so far stayed away from this talent besides trying it out at the start. There is just something to random to it and you actually have to "game" it making sure you don't replenish runes that are 1-2 sec from coming off CD.

    Now Runic Corruption is good for Blood if you are going for full DPS and seems to be working well for Unholy and 2-H frost.

    When it comes to Unholy, I think Runic Corruption pulls ahead.

    Does anyone have any suggestions and recommendations.

  2. #2
    For PvE, I'd always take Blood Tap for both dps specs (I don't tank anymore, so I'm not sure how it would work out). Sims higher + gives you much more control, also it's not up to RNG. For PvP, no idea tbh, prolly RE, one less button to push and care about.

  3. #3
    Blood: RC (less stuff to care about) or BT (control)
    Frost DW: BT
    Frost 2H: RE (Since all runes are useful) , BT (if you can handle the extra cd/stack management)
    UH: IDK

    PVP : BT for control / burst iirc.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  4. #4
    The only real argument against BT is "cba". Even if you don't need the control all your "extra runes" become death ones (over blood, with RC) adding a significant amount of death strikes/survivability.

  5. #5
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    For unholy, at the moment I'm slightly confused. BT sims higher but RC (subjectively) feels better and seems to yield slightly better results.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    For unholy, at the moment I'm slightly confused. BT sims higher but RC (subjectively) feels better and seems to yield slightly better results.
    Sims are actually exactly what the name suggests. They are simulations of actual fights in a perfect world or setting. They don't take into consideration all the different factors.

    RC has too much RNG going for it. Sometimes you can be really lucky and and have 100% rune regen for over 10 secs, sometimes it just never procs.

    However, regarding the playstyle, RC helps Unholy much more than BT does. It also feels much more smoother with RC. 2-H Frost is kinda in between. I often find if I am lucky on procs, then RC is simply too good.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    For unholy, at the moment I'm slightly confused. BT sims higher but RC (subjectively) feels better and seems to yield slightly better results.
    Unholy also takes BT. BT is always better than RC as it offers the same efficiency but gives death runes. You can macro it to death coil or micromanage it, as you prefer.

    RC is only really a valid choice for blood, because it offers more consistent rune generation, which is useful to smooth out damage taken over time, and lots of tanks prefer that to more death strikes over time (RE) and don't want to bother micromanaging their runes (BT).

  8. #8
    Everything uses BT. Besides Festerblight, which uses RC. Control > RNG in nearly every situation but Fester since it keeps your runes perfect for Festering.

  9. #9
    Is that right? I didn't know festerblight needs RC. The stickied thread here suggests otherwise.

  10. #10
    While tanking i use BT for the control over when i have a DS availiable
    , on my frost spec in PVP i use RC, simply because i dont want to have to micro manage my runes, while interupting/silencing/ chasing opponents down.

  11. #11
    Shaftnberry, try this macro:

    Code:
    #showtooltip
    /use Frost Strike
    /use Blood Tap

    Alternatively if you're 2H frost, just spec into RE.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Festerblight does prefer Runic Corruption instead of Blood Tap atm. Feel free to listen to the Archerus discussion as to why.

  13. #13
    I don't want to spend the time listening to a podcast. Would you mind summarizing please?

  14. #14
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Unholy also takes BT. BT is always better than RC as it offers the same efficiency but gives death runes. You can macro it to death coil or micromanage it, as you prefer.

    RC is only really a valid choice for blood, because it offers more consistent rune generation, which is useful to smooth out damage taken over time, and lots of tanks prefer that to more death strikes over time (RE) and don't want to bother micromanaging their runes (BT).
    Trust me, I know the benefits of BT, I know that sims are just sims (and I take them with a grain of salt, add AMS absorbing/light movement) and have recommended BT to any unholy DK since the release of MoP...

    However, most of the time I'm re-applying strong diseases and keeping them rolling - even on non "true festerblight" encounters and RC seems to have the edge (for me at least). Mathematically I can't really understand why seeing as, even under optimal circumstances RC returns 40.5% split between 3 rune types compared to 40% of a rune for BT... That difference of 0.5% of a rune is almost not worth mentioning, especially as BT returns death runes.

    I could be wrong. I could just be better at using RC (don't think that's the case). The only possibility that makes sense to me is that using RC regens frost and blood runes simultaneously to be instantly used on FeS. Blood Tap prioritises unholy runes so could possibly cause some orphan runes from the Blood or Frost pools due to a festering strike using (what would have been) an Unholy rune. I dunno o.O

    Will have a listen to that Acherus podcast, was there for some of it but real life (aka bullied by the missus into going to Tesco) took over.
    Last edited by vmagik; 2013-05-07 at 01:22 AM.
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  15. #15
    Like it really matters to argue over a 1% difference. Either RC or BT for Unholy are fine.

    Pick the one you think feels best, because the only way you're going to tell the difference is if you run a sim with an unrealistic sample size.

    RC will flow better because Unholy uses a 2-rune strike. BT will work better with SR, but will also penalize you for not using it correctly.
    "I have it all simmed."
    Euliat

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SSHA778 View Post
    Like it really matters to argue over a 1% difference. Either RC or BT for Unholy are fine.
    If all it takes to get that 1% is choosing one talent over another, I want to choose the higher talent. If you have to micromanage BT to get that 1% I wouldn't make that tradeoff, but I would like to understand the factors at play so I can make an educated choice.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    Trust me, I know the benefits of BT, I know that sims are just sims (and I take them with a grain of salt, add AMS absorbing/light movement) and have recommended BT to any unholy DK since the release of MoP...

    However, most of the time I'm re-applying strong diseases and keeping them rolling - even on non "true festerblight" encounters and RC seems to have the edge (for me at least). Mathematically I can't really understand why seeing as, even under optimal circumstances RC returns 40.5% split between 3 rune types compared to 40% of a rune for BT... That difference of 0.5% of a rune is almost not worth mentioning, especially as BT returns death runes.

    I could be wrong. I could just be better at using RC (don't think that's the case). The only possibility that makes sense to me is that using RC regens frost and blood runes simultaneously to be instantly used on FeS. Blood Tap prioritises unholy runes so could possibly cause some orphan runes from the Blood or Frost pools due to a festering strike using (what would have been) an Unholy rune. I dunno o.O

    Will have a listen to that Acherus podcast, was there for some of it but real life (aka bullied by the missus into going to Tesco) took over.
    Where's your 40.5% number from? I have been looking for the math we all did at the beginning of the tier to evaluate these talents and I can't find it anywhere.

    And, BT sims quite a bit higher than RC, and real world conditions (AMS, downtime, etc) should only make the difference larger. Where do you get the idea that RC would win?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    If all it takes to get that 1% is choosing one talent over another, I want to choose the higher talent. If you have to micromanage BT to get that 1% I wouldn't make that tradeoff, but I would like to understand the factors at play so I can make an educated choice.
    For me it's all about play style & feel. As unholy, I have enough stuff to manage, throwing in BT is just not worth it. I'm not in a top world guild, so going from 200k to 202k is not worth the effort imho. Especially when I would really never reach the 202k.

    Having to worry about BT would take my concentration away from something else. That would either reduce my survivability or gimp my damage. We all must look at how we play & decide what works best for us.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by broodax View Post
    Where's your 40.5% number from? I have been looking for the math we all did at the beginning of the tier to evaluate these talents and I can't find it anywhere.

    And, BT sims quite a bit higher than RC, and real world conditions (AMS, downtime, etc) should only make the difference larger. Where do you get the idea that RC would win?
    3 sec out of 10 = 30%
    45% chance to proc
    3 runes
    3 x 0.3 x 0.45 = .405 = 40.5%
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SSHA778 View Post
    Like it really matters to argue over a 1% difference. Either RC or BT for Unholy are fine.

    Pick the one you think feels best, because the only way you're going to tell the difference is if you run a sim with an unrealistic sample size.

    RC will flow better because Unholy uses a 2-rune strike. BT will work better with SR, but will also penalize you for not using it correctly.
    This.

    Bear in mind that BT is quite a bit harder to manage than the others and you should never macro it if you want optimal usage, or else it will end up worse than the others. Each talent has a swing to the playstyle that you may or may not prefer.

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