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  1. #1

    We can't kill anything by ourselves...

    So looking back at the final bosses in every expansion since Vanilla, we needed help to kill them.
    I'm talking about in the final raid of every boss.

    In BC: We needed Maiev's help with Illidan.
    In WoTLK: We needed Tirion's help (aka miracle) with the Lich King.
    In DS: We needed all the aspects + thrall + the dragon soul to help with Deathwing...

    So...who or what will help our raid kill Garrosh? Because God forbid they actually let an entire raid take down something without NPC help...

  2. #2
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Probably some combination of Vol'jin, Lor'themar, and Jaina (or all three).

  3. #3
    The encounter will be spectator-mode based, you'll be given free movement camera controls while Thrall, Vol'jin, Baine, Lor'themar, Anduin, Wrathion, Varian, Saurfang etc. deal with him.

  4. #4
    Banned ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    This is, particularly, for the sake of lore. It's hard to attribute a kill to 25 nameless faceless heroes as far as lore goes. But when we're talking about the Lich King dying? Yeah, we can talk about Tirion and his band of Crusaders, or Akama and his carefully hand-picked elite strike team.

    Garrosh?

    Gonna be Varian and Vol'jin.

  5. #5
    Don't forget Sylvanas. She has a...*sunglasses* bone to pick.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Gamon will claim the kill, obviously.


  7. #7
    I'm guessing Vol'jin and Varian will play a role of sorts. Hard to say, considering we don't know if he'll be just Garrosh, or if he'll be powered up by the heart of Y'shaarj. or maybe he'll actually be the penultimate boss and the Sha of Pride or Avatar of Y'shaarj will be the last boss.

    And to the OP, I don't see this as a problem in and of itself. Some lore figures are simply so powerful that a group of random heroes taking them down seems silly. Plus, having npc aid helps to wrap up stories. It would have been disappointing from a storytelling perspective for example if Maiev didn't show up until Illidan was already dead.

    We get the Keepers in Ulduar giving us buffs to face Yogg-Saron. Makes sense, and having them help, even indirectly, to defeat the being that drove them mad for a while is great.

    Kil'jaeden: let's face it, defeating him WITHOUT help would have just been nuts, and it wrapped up the Sunwell Trilogy story with Kalecgos and Anveena.

    Illidan: We got the conclusion between Maiev and Illidan's story together. (Or is it? If they bring Illidan back maybe this will go on.)

    Firelands: We get to see Malfurion and Company come in and actually help face Ragnaros. (A shame only heroic raiders got to see this....)

    And it's not like we NEVER kill anything without npc help. Ragnaros 1.0, Nefarian, C'freaking'thun, Kel'thuzzad, Hakkar, Kael'thas, Vashj, Magtheridon, Gruul, Anub'arak, and every other raid boss that doesn't have npc help. I think it's only really a problem when the npc's role renders our role meaningless, and the only one I can think of is LK where the LK reveals he was toying with us, effortlessly one shots us which he could have done at any point all fight, and we serve only as canon fodder to motivate Tirion to go super saijan and shatter frostmourne. From that point on, you can literally just stand and watch as tirion slowly dps the LK down, there's not even a final burn phase for the last 10%.

    Beyond that one example, sure we get help from npcs, but we're still critical to the actual killing of the boss.
    Last edited by Malzra; 2013-05-06 at 04:44 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Amuramie View Post
    Don't forget Sylvanas. She has a...*sunglasses* bone to pick.
    Well done!
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    So looking back at the final bosses in every expansion since Vanilla, we needed help to kill them.
    I'm talking about in the final raid of every boss.

    In BC: We needed Maiev's help with Illidan.
    In WoTLK: We needed Tirion's help (aka miracle) with the Lich King.
    In DS: We needed all the aspects + thrall + the dragon soul to help with Deathwing...

    So...who or what will help our raid kill Garrosh? Because God forbid they actually let an entire raid take down something without NPC help...
    Yes because it is considered that the end bosses are STRONG even 40 and 25 Powerful guys is nothing compared to Single big boss so we need someone their equal in power. And lorewise it would be WRONG to say some band of adventurers killed end boss while whole other world could and they even didnt give a Sh*t on aiding them (us).

    In SoO there are many candidates who might help us:
    1. Vol'jin
    2. Baine
    3. Jaina
    4. Varian


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Wishblade's Avatar
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    To be fair in BC it was Kil'jaeden that was the final baddie with Kalecgos helping us I guess.

    With Garrosh I guess we'll have some of the leaders helping out. Vol'jin, Jaina, Varian, etc.

    Frankly I like having the help from a lore perspective. I much prefer, "And so the adventurers destroyed Deathwing with the unified powers of the Dragonflights channeled through the Dragon Soul wielded by the shaman Thrall" rather than, "And so the adventurers destroyed Deathwing/Kel'thuzad/Lady Vashj/whatever." I really don't like the idea of "the adventurers" that much. I'd rather read of how a lore character defeated the big baddie with the help of some Horde/Alliance champions.
    "Reminds me of a dog, you stare at it while it's playing outside... Running around in a circle, then stopping up, wagging with a wide "grin". Jumping around until you call for the dog, then it lowers its tail because it think it's done something bad... And then you throw the ball, seeing the tail go straight into the air in bliss! ^^" - Gehco
    Wishblade of Draenor EU

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    So looking back at the final bosses in every expansion since Vanilla, we needed help to kill them.
    I'm talking about in the final raid of every boss.

    In BC: We needed Maiev's help with Illidan.
    In WoTLK: We needed Tirion's help (aka miracle) with the Lich King.
    In DS: We needed all the aspects + thrall + the dragon soul to help with Deathwing...

    So...who or what will help our raid kill Garrosh? Because God forbid they actually let an entire raid take down something without NPC help...
    I think Illidan's was actually done quite well. Akama aided us by holding off reinforcements. Maiev didn't help us, she just joined the fight and had a chat before he died.
    Tirion didn't actually do much to the Lich King. He only shattered Frostmourne. It was actually the souls Frostmourne had taken, particularly King Terenas, who helped us. If you want to claim Lich King to be such a magnificently powerful enemy, it makes sense that it took a lot coming together to pull out a victory.
    And Deathwing....yeah, he's the size of a friggin' city. Of course the Aspects are going to help in that fight (no comment on how poorly the fight was portrayed).

    But as stated above, it lets the story have characters rather than "____ was defeated by a number of nameless heroes."
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  12. #12
    I'm gonna take a really long shot... Anduin.

    I doubt we'll see him again for a while, but i reckon, that hes a slight possiblity.

    And before anybody mentions him being crushed to near death i know this, chances are he'll more or less likely be okay, possibly responding very well to Velens treatment, and make an appearance down the line.

    Otherwise, its probably going to be one of many other people.

    Varian/Voljin/Baine/Thrall/Jaina/Sylvanas/Saurfang.


    OR what about this as a possiblilty... considering the speculation that Malkorok is corrupted, what if we kill him, and we end up releasing whatever evil is within him (possibly the Sha itself, or some Burning Legion member) who then interferes in our fight with Garrosh by stomping him and giving us the start of the Burning Legion expansion as an end boss in the Seige raid.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by r3d3mpt10n View Post
    I'm gonna take a really long shot... Anduin.

    I doubt we'll see him again for a while, but i reckon, that hes a slight possiblity.

    And before anybody mentions him being crushed to near death i know this, chances are he'll more or less likely be okay, possibly responding very well to Velens treatment, and make an appearance down the line.

    Otherwise, its probably going to be one of many other people.

    Varian/Voljin/Baine/Thrall/Jaina/Sylvanas/Saurfang.


    OR what about this as a possiblilty... considering the speculation that Malkorok is corrupted, what if we kill him, and we end up releasing whatever evil is within him (possibly the Sha itself, or some Burning Legion member) who then interferes in our fight with Garrosh by stomping him and giving us the start of the Burning Legion expansion as an end boss in the Seige raid.
    I think Anduin's more likely to play a role in 5.4's Wrathion questline than the siege itself, would be odd to have him set up in 5.2 and then drop out of it entirely. He would feel out of place in the siege itself.

  14. #14
    perhaps, but id imagine he wouldnt let nearly being killed by Garrosh go that easily, so he may have a little part to play if that.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    In SoO there are many candidates who might help us:
    1. Vol'jin
    2. Baine
    3. Jaina
    4. Varian
    There should be a Yogg-like elite mode where we can choose 0-4 of them help us

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I think Illidan's was actually done quite well. Akama aided us by holding off reinforcements. Maiev didn't help us, she just joined the fight and had a chat before he died.
    Tirion didn't actually do much to the Lich King. He only shattered Frostmourne. It was actually the souls Frostmourne had taken, particularly King Terenas, who helped us. If you want to claim Lich King to be such a magnificently powerful enemy, it makes sense that it took a lot coming together to pull out a victory.
    And Deathwing....yeah, he's the size of a friggin' city. Of course the Aspects are going to help in that fight (no comment on how poorly the fight was portrayed).

    But as stated above, it lets the story have characters rather than "____ was defeated by a number of nameless heroes."
    Maiev did actually help, by dropping traps at the very least which I assume at level 70 were required to defeat him. But still done in a way that didn't take the glory from the players.

    As for LK, I don't mind the fact that Tirion shattered Frostmourne, or that the spirits released from it rendered him helpless. I think they're great ideas in and of themselves. But they way the implemented it made it feel like the players were superfluous. Nothing we did up until the LK killed us really mattered, and then we weren't needed to finish him off.

  17. #17
    Probably Varian.

  18. #18
    Would be fun if they actually wrote in the lore something in line of; ''This group of mysterious adventurers killed off [Insert bad guy name here] and then disappeared witout trace. It is said they are still walking among us, helping whoever needs helps, with the secret that they once saved Azeroth.''

  19. #19
    I guess all the leaders and some extras

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoibert View Post
    The encounter will be spectator-mode based, you'll be given free movement camera controls while Thrall, Vol'jin, Baine, Lor'themar, Anduin, Wrathion, Varian, Saurfang etc. deal with him.
    God yes!

    And win ratio is 50/50 chance so if garrosh wins there is no loot for the raid and you got to wait till next reset!
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