all this UH dk madness...

[ChristopherD87]

So i keep hearing all this UH dk madness is going around. But still in rbg's and stuff all i ever see is frost this frost that. So i decided to start lvling my 85 dk (Who has always been UH) and even running 85-89 bg's i rape frost dks that r lvl 88 and 89 with dmg done and kills. So I was just curious, why dont rbg teams try to find more UH's than frost? I mean the aoe dmg IMO is greater from UH with spreading ur diseases, maybe not quite the burst but it's still pretty darn good burst.


P.S.

also on a different note, is the glyph for your diseases to be undispellalbe a good idea since you lose 25% dmg on them?

[dawawe]

Frost AoE is more burst which is better in rbgs. once in a blue moon u find a dot cleave rbg group that wants one but those take more effort and usually lose more.

No dont use the glyp.

[Spectral]

Howling Blast stops flag caps and Frost burst is superior. The things you're going to be asked to do as a DK in RBGs is to stop flag caps, burst a kill target, and DG targets into Solar Beam. For two of those, Frost is superior, for one, it doesn't matter.

Your ability to multidot and run up big numbers in low level random BGs is wildly irrelevant to competitive RBGs.

[dawawe]

Howling Blast stops flag caps and Frost burst is superior. The things you're going to be asked to do as a DK in RBGs is to stop flag caps, burst a kill target, and DG targets into Solar Beam. For two of those, Frost is superior, for one, it doesn't matter.

Your ability to multidot and run up big numbers in low level random BGs is wildly irrelevant to competitive RBGs.

Unholy uses bloodboil a lot to spread diseases which also stops flag caps. It alls comes down to burst. Mass grip is awesome but my grps never find a boomy. and wouldnt say big dmg numbers is irrelevant i play a destro lock and all i do is aoe shit and chaosbolt when a kill target is called usually double dmg and average 17+ KBs.

main job of the DK is target calling. One thing not mention is frost is better for mas gripping to a cliff since they cant be knocked back with pillar up.

[Raugnaut]

A) Unholy Burst has quite a bit of ramp-up time (Generally at least 7-8 seconds from a fresh start). Granted, it last's significantly longer then Frost's burst, and can happen more often. However, it can also be easily stopped (CC on the pet)

Frost Burst requires the push of 1 button, and you are suddenly bursting. It also happens every minute.

B) Frost has Howling Blast, as well as the fact that its favorable, rune-wise, to use it. Unholy, for ranged attacks, have Death Coil (Requires a bit of RP to use), DnD (Has 33% uptime, and thus can't be spammed. Frost has this as well, the only difference is that Unholy has more rune-favor on it), and Icy Touch (Very non-rune favorable).

C) Frost has 2 permanent Death Runes, and can get up to 6 Death Runes, if i remember correctly. This means that they can put out quite a bit of Necrotic Strikes on the target. Unholy has NO permanent Death Runes, and can only have up to 4 Death Runes. Thus, Unholy's ability to pump out NS on a healer kill target or something similiar is significantly inferior to Frost's.

Unholy also lacks the uber survival that was once specialized to it's particular tree. (Can no longer get Lichbourne AND AMZ, all DK's can get the full AMS bubble, ect.) This means that the only thing that Unholy has that Frost does not is it's pet, and the 3 things of goodness there are A) the 1 min, 3-4 second stun, B) the 20 second 2 second root/interupt, and C) the burst that can happen much more readily then Frost's burst (Via Pet into Abom) and the significantly larger amount of burst (Abom+Gargoyle+Unholy Frenzy). These 3 extra utilities that Frost does NOT have makes it a decent spec for Arena, where a single kill can pretty much be the game, but not so much for RBGs, where, instead of having to focus on 1 target, you have to keep track of ALL the targets and do a significant amount of single-target burst damage often. (Unholy does an extreme amount of burst damage every 3 mins. Frost does a lot of burst damage every 1 min.)

[Spectral]

Unholy uses bloodboil a lot to spread diseases which also stops flag caps.

My bad, that's right.

[TJ]

So i keep hearing all this UH dk madness is going around. But still in rbg's and stuff all i ever see is frost this frost that. So i decided to start lvling my 85 dk (Who has always been UH) and even running 85-89 bg's i rape frost dks that r lvl 88 and 89 with dmg done and kills. So I was just curious, why dont rbg teams try to find more UH's than frost? I mean the aoe dmg IMO is greater from UH with spreading ur diseases, maybe not quite the burst but it's still pretty darn good burst.


P.S.

also on a different note, is the glyph for your diseases to be undispellalbe a good idea since you lose 25% dmg on them?

90 PvP is a lot different to 85-89. Frost DK's burst is pretty damn good as well, you can literally obliterate people.

[dawawe]

A) Unholy Burst has quite a bit of ramp-up time (Generally at least 7-8 seconds from a fresh start). Granted, it last's significantly longer then Frost's burst, and can happen more often. However, it can also be easily stopped (CC on the pet)

Frost Burst requires the push of 1 button, and you are suddenly bursting. It also happens every minute.

B) Frost has Howling Blast, as well as the fact that its favorable, rune-wise, to use it. Unholy, for ranged attacks, have Death Coil (Requires a bit of RP to use), DnD (Has 33% uptime, and thus can't be spammed. Frost has this as well, the only difference is that Unholy has more rune-favor on it), and Icy Touch (Very non-rune favorable).

C) Frost has 2 permanent Death Runes, and can get up to 6 Death Runes, if i remember correctly. This means that they can put out quite a bit of Necrotic Strikes on the target. Unholy has NO permanent Death Runes, and can only have up to 4 Death Runes. Thus, Unholy's ability to pump out NS on a healer kill target or something similiar is significantly inferior to Frost's.

Unholy also lacks the uber survival that was once specialized to it's particular tree. (Can no longer get Lichbourne AND AMZ, all DK's can get the full AMS bubble, ect.) This means that the only thing that Unholy has that Frost does not is it's pet, and the 3 things of goodness there are A) the 1 min, 3-4 second stun, B) the 20 second 2 second root/interupt, and C) the burst that can happen much more readily then Frost's burst (Via Pet into Abom) and the significantly larger amount of burst (Abom+Gargoyle+Unholy Frenzy). These 3 extra utilities that Frost does NOT have makes it a decent spec for Arena, where a single kill can pretty much be the game, but not so much for RBGs, where, instead of having to focus on 1 target, you have to keep track of ALL the targets and do a significant amount of single-target burst damage often. (Unholy does an extreme amount of burst damage every 3 mins. Frost does a lot of burst damage every 1 min.)

Unholy's survival is still way higher than frosts (in both blood and unholy pres) you have lichborne DC spam to heal yourself which other specs can do but unholy's is buffed by mastery. ill give you the "Howling blast > all" arguement. Unholy's burst inst all pet me being a noob i forget my pet half the time being used to frost and can still burst people down. And for the death runes unholy can have 6 with blood tap and our necros absorbs more than a frost and no self-respecting frost will use 6 runes on necros. playing both specs i like the feel of unholy more the biggest issue i have is if we have another person who can target call i will get stuck on D because i have a pet.

[Senathor]

Frost DK's are usually people that can't play UH.

[Deleted]

UH I find is seriously underrated in RBGs. Most people go frost just for faceroll howling blast spam.

With the focus all on burst many forget that UH is one of the best specs in the game when it comes to making healers want to /wrists through Necrotic strike pressure.

It is more challenging to play, but it can be very rewarding.

[kosechi]

uh is a pressure spec, frost is a burst spec.
uh i think probably puts out much scarier damage, and has much more control, but its also much harder to play effectively because timmy's ai is still atrociously bad and it requires a lot more dot juggling.

for rbgs frost is hands down better because of it's knockback immunity, but for arena i think both are about equal and it only depends on what comp you are playing.

shadowcleave or ebola cleave can't really be played with frost dk, i don't think i would play tsg or turbocleave with an unholy dk, ret/dk/priest could probably go either way.

[Nicola]

Generally speaking, UH is better in arena because it brings so much pressure while still having good burst and utility, frost is better in RBG because of the instant burst, strong AoE and being stupidly easy to play compared to unholy.

[Senathor]

Generally speaking, UH is better in arena because it brings so much pressure while still having good burst and utility, frost is better in RBG because of the instant burst, strong AoE and being stupidly easy to play compared to unholy.

Unholy is actually better atm if you play it right meaning that you keep diseases up on everyone, use dnd on CD, and save 2-3 death runes for when you swap. That's my opinion at least. I guess Frost might be good for temple but mostly UH is the best.

---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 03:21 PM ----------

UH I find is seriously underrated in RBGs. Most people go frost just for faceroll howling blast spam.

With the focus all on burst many forget that UH is one of the best specs in the game when it comes to making healers want to /wrists through Necrotic strike pressure.

It is more challenging to play, but it can be very rewarding.

Yeah, as you get death runes from Blood Boil it's essentially the same, people are just afraid of adding 5 more buttons to their rotation.

[wxcopy]

Have you checked out Reinhart's stuff? I can't stand watching chunkybutt humans pvp, but he is a very entertaining UH DK.

http://youtu.be/Dl0HneSlaok?t=8m44s

[unownn]

C) Frost has 2 permanent Death Runes, and can get up to 6 Death Runes, if i remember correctly. This means that they can put out quite a bit of Necrotic Strikes on the target. Unholy has NO permanent Death Runes, and can only have up to 4 Death Runes.

4 Death Runes in Frost and 6 in UH