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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    ...
    Locks can cast while moving at literally zero penalty to DPS (albeit they move slightly slower, but since they never have to stop moving - that's meaningless - plus there is a trick to ignore the movement penalty anyways).
    There is no such trick to not trigger the penalty anymore, that's fixed.

    Also, locks can cast while moving if they don't take either AV or MF instead. KjC is great for high-movement fights, but there is quite a few times where it'd be better to take AV for pure, unadulterated dps gain, or MF to gain range on AoE to do more damage there. Not all locks have KjC by default.

  2. #42
    any fight that has significant movement problems you can basically bypass as a warlock through either demo spec or KJC.

  3. #43
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    any fight that has significant movement problems you can basically bypass as a warlock through either demo spec or KJC.
    ^ This.

    That you will always be a movement comfortable spec, or have KjC whenever you anticipate needing to move a lot, means for anytime it matters you have it - and anytime it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.

    Also I feel like the KjC trick still worked as of my locks arena games last week...I use KjC + CoX all the time...
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    ^ This.

    That you will always be a movement comfortable spec, or have KjC whenever you anticipate needing to move a lot, means for anytime it matters you have it - and anytime it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.

    Also I feel like the KjC trick still worked as of my locks arena games last week...I use KjC + CoX all the time...
    Lei-shen's is an example of a movement intense fight where it's best to use something other than KjC (MF) as Destro.


    We may be talking about different bugs with KjC then. They fixed the one where as long as you were standing still when a cast started, you wouldn't get debuffed. Which are you referring to?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Lei-shen's is an example of a movement intense fight where it's best to use something other than KjC (MF) as Destro.
    I thought you played Demo on Lei Shen?

  6. #46
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Lei-shen's is an example of a movement intense fight where it's best to use something other than KjC (MF) as Destro.


    We may be talking about different bugs with KjC then. They fixed the one where as long as you were standing still when a cast started, you wouldn't get debuffed. Which are you referring to?
    Same bug, it's probably just that my lock only PvPs (Affliction) - so I don't ever have to kite for very long before they swap targets or use a gap closer. Instants of course don't proc it - so if all I end up channelling is a malefic grasp as I drag them around a box from their healer - I may just not be feeling the -15% bit (30% is definitely noticeable though). Then they close the gap or swap targets - I never have to kite for more than ~5 seconds at a time. (or it lets me run away while I'm fearing them, and after they are feared I don't need to run anymore)
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    I thought you played Demo on Lei Shen?
    I personally don't. Our strat doesn't rely on the balls all being close and stunned on the boss to AoE quickly. As a result going demo for burst, clumped AoE isn't worth it. However by using MF and being destro I'll do 40-50% of our total raid damage to ball lightning, with our monk tank doing about 30%.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 01:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Same bug, it's probably just that my lock only PvPs (Affliction) - so I don't ever have to kite for very long before they swap targets or use a gap closer. Instants of course don't proc it - so if all I end up channelling is a malefic grasp as I drag them around a box from their healer - I may just not be feeling the -15% bit (30% is definitely noticeable though). Then they close the gap or swap targets - I never have to kite for more than ~5 seconds at a time. (or it lets me run away while I'm fearing them, and after they are feared I don't need to run anymore)
    The bug was worse for Aff, because each tick of a channel would cause the debuff check, and not just the start of a cast as it is for direct casted spells.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I personally don't. Our strat doesn't rely on the balls all being close and stunned on the boss to AoE quickly. As a result going demo for burst, clumped AoE isn't worth it. However by using MF and being destro I'll do 40-50% of our total raid damage to ball lightning, with our monk tank doing about 30%
    Well, all 25 man guilds do. Guess it's different on 10.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Well, all 25 man guilds do. Guess it's different on 10.
    I think it depends on your healers on 10H. If you have great healers that can heal through a bit of the extra damage it's nice to not have to worry about balls more than "loosely stack around the boss". If you don't though, then you'd probably have to stack them and AoE them down.

    As it is our balls die within 3-4 jump with only me and the monk tank really doing any significant damage to them. (First and last phase)

  10. #50
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I think it depends on your healers on 10H. If you have great healers that can heal through a bit of the extra damage it's nice to not have to worry about balls more than "loosely stack around the boss". If you don't though, then you'd probably have to stack them and AoE them down.

    As it is our balls die within 3-4 jump with only me and the monk tank really doing any significant damage to them. (First and last phase)
    I don't think Lei Shen HC on 10M can be used as a relevant example for anything in this game, since most of the fight mechanics on 10M hardly do any dmg at all and, unlike in 25M, can simply be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    As it is our balls die within 3-4 jump with only me and the monk tank really doing any significant damage to them. (First and last phase)
    This being a perfect example of that.
    When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
    When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
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  11. #51
    Can't we just agree that kjc is op as shit and that shadow gets screwed over for movement.

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  12. #52
    no dude shadow is fine l2p

  13. #53
    You guys have seriously derailed this thread very little about the OP. Theres more about mages and locks in a priest thread.....

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...#omgwtfkittens
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by tru View Post
    You guys have seriously derailed this thread very little about the OP. Theres more about mages and locks in a priest thread.....

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...#omgwtfkittens
    Overall DPS means little to nothing, and it's better to look at all parses, not just the top 100. Not to mention it doesn't tell us anything we don't already know. Shadow is solid if there's multiple targets, bad if there's not.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    I don't think Lei Shen HC on 10M can be used as a relevant example for anything in this game, since most of the fight mechanics on 10M hardly do any dmg at all and, unlike in 25M, can simply be ignored.

    This being a perfect example of that.
    It's harder for different reasons, just like every other fight in this game. In 10H transition phases are absolutely terrible to manage with only 10 people. In the first transition, a platform can only have 2 people able to work on the platform because you have 4-4-4-3 on the 4 quarters. A helm of command and a bad time forces 10H to have interaction beyond just their quadrant. You also only have 2 healers to heal all four areas.

    Another aspect that can be difficult in respect to Ball Lightnings on 10M is that you can have anywhere from 3 to 8 balls spawn in the 1st phase. If you have the lower number is even harder to AoE down them, so you're forced to not rely on clump, stun, burst AoE and have the mechanic be done within 10 seconds, and instead have to focus them down individually which is much slower.

    Ball lightning may not be as big a problem on 10 as it is on 25, but other aspects of the fight are worse on 10 than 25.


    I'm not saying 10H is harder than 25H, or that 25H is harder than 10H. There's no way to say that objectively. I'm just saying that the fights are hard for different reasons on the two settings.

  16. #56
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I'm not saying 10H is harder than 25H, or that 25H is harder than 10H. There's no way to say that objectively. I'm just saying that the fights are hard for different reasons on the two settings.
    22 guilds have killed it on 25M, 42 on 10M. Objectively or not, this fight on 10M HC is pure faceroll both raid comp (bring anything that can hit the boss in 10M, Spine v2) and mechanics-wise.
    When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
    When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
    And I held your hand through all of these years

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    22 guilds have killed it on 25M, 42 on 10M. Objectively or not, this fight on 10M HC is pure faceroll both raid comp (bring anything that can hit the boss in 10M, Spine v2) and mechanics-wise.
    And the fact guild are going in for the first time and 3 shotting it on 10 m

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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    22 guilds have killed it on 25M, 42 on 10M. Objectively or not, this fight on 10M HC is pure faceroll both raid comp (bring anything that can hit the boss in 10M, Spine v2) and mechanics-wise.
    everyone knows that 10hc are like 25 normal... dumb noobs from 10m who actually thinks they're better than 25m players lol

  19. #59
    Someone should close this thread, seriously.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerbz View Post
    Someone should close this thread, seriously.
    The amount of butthurt 25 man raiders in this thread is "Too damn high!" am i not right ?
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