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  1. #1

    Am I doing my 10 man raid a disservice playing holy?

    Hey guys, the guild I run with is currently 3/13 heroic ToT (Jinrokh, Jikun, Tortos), and working on Heroic Iron Qon (and probably Heroic Horridon next). I've been holy since I started playing this expansion and would like to say I'm pulling my own weight. I have never played disc before, so I don't know how strong it is relative to holy, but from what I've been reading, I should be disc instead of holy.

    We're struggling a little on Heroic Iron Qon, so I'm curious if me making the switch to disc will help out at all on that fight. As far as I can tell too from reading up on it, disc is the spec to be for heroic horridon as well.

    I really like holy, but if disc is really that amazing, I will make the switch to help out my raid. Any priest with experience with the swap able to help me out here in terms of how hard disc is to play compared to holy for a first timer etc? Thanks.

    Also, not sure if it matters or not but my healing set is 508 ilevel (I might be in shadow gear on armory atm). Also my guild logs - http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/268019/. I tend to have to DPS as holy sometimes during fights to make certain DPS checks, and I hear disc would help on this too, as opposed to doing it as holy in my DPS chakra. Would really appreciate some insight on this.
    Last edited by Angelicat; 2013-05-06 at 08:31 PM.

  2. #2
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    I currently mainly raid 25 mans, but I was 10 man all of cataclysm, so I do have some experience. I personally believe that holy has its place in the raiding scene but disc is extremely powerful on 10man. Atonement dps is extremely beneficial due to the smart healing and the amount of dps you can do. Fights with damage increases (jin'rokh fluidity, horridons cracked shell, ji-kuns primal nutrient ) make disc atonement even better. I have seen up to 500k penance crits on Horridon, that is a lot of healing you can put out.

    I have played holy and disc for heroic Iron Qon and I found disc to be better overall. Especially for 10 mans because you can cap spirit shell very easily. I would give it a try and see how you like it, the fights are absolutely doable as holy but disc will out perform holy on many of them.

    I hope I didn't ramble to much for you, good luck

  3. #3
    I ask myself the same question every raid, Angelicat. I raid 25m and love playing holy. I would play holy on every fight if I could, but on many fights I have to stop and ask myself if disc would be better in this situation. Most of the time, Disc is going to carry a raid alot more consistently than holy. The only progression fights that I can without a doubt say holy was the right choice was Heroic Council and Heroic Twins.

    Im looking forward to finishing this tier so i can play holy non stop for farm :]

  4. #4
    I think it really depends on your raid group, and your healing team. Disc and Holy fill two different roles. Holy and Disc are going to be even closer when they nerf Atonement healing soon, and as the Stat priority differs, I don't know if its in your best interest to start regearing for disc at this point.

  5. #5
    Fluffy Kitten Dyra's Avatar
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    While my guild isn't advanced as yours (8/12N ), I've made the transition from Holy to Disc. It wasn't too hard to swap, just had to track Rapture to ensure I couldn't run out of mana. Since I was stacking Mastery as Holy anyway, I didn't have to make any real changes to my gear also. If anything all those Cloth Spi/Crit pieces suddenly became a whole heap more attractive. Just need to practise knowing when the ideal time to start stacking your Spirit Shell is. Helping it along with Power Infusion and Inner Focus is great too. Also you'll wonder why your blue bar just doesn't drain as fast.

    When it comes right down to it, Disc's CDs are just too good to for a 10 man to pass up. So I wouldn't say you're doing your guild a disservice, but what Disc brings to the raid will ease your way a bit more.

    It's also really nice to be useful while DPSing and not having to worry that something bad might happen while you're horribly gimped in Smite Chakra.

    However, even now, I would much sooner be Holy.

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  6. #6
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Holy and Disc are not going to be getting closer with the atonement nerf in 5.3. I do not understand why people think the change is going to be a drastic thing because it isn't. Granted the change will be more noticeable in 10 mans over 25s but it is a very minor change and the playstyle of disc will still remain the same.

  7. #7
    if you can keep people alive the same as disc vs as holy, you are.

    if people are going to die because you don't know how to play disc, you're not.

    both of those assume that you're working some kind of progression. if you've got it all on farm it's irrelevant.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Velosi View Post
    I currently mainly raid 25 mans, but I was 10 man all of cataclysm, so I do have some experience. I personally believe that holy has its place in the raiding scene but disc is extremely powerful on 10man. Atonement dps is extremely beneficial due to the smart healing and the amount of dps you can do. Fights with damage increases (jin'rokh fluidity, horridons cracked shell, ji-kuns primal nutrient ) make disc atonement even better. I have seen up to 500k penance crits on Horridon, that is a lot of healing you can put out.

    I have played holy and disc for heroic Iron Qon and I found disc to be better overall. Especially for 10 mans because you can cap spirit shell very easily. I would give it a try and see how you like it, the fights are absolutely doable as holy but disc will out perform holy on many of them.

    I hope I didn't ramble to much for you, good luck
    Holy is very strong. With that said I do not believe in comparing disc with any other healer at all. I see disc healers as a support more so than an actual healer since they are able to mitigate large amounts of damage through absorbs and spirit shell. They also are equivalent to half a dps.

    Having a disc priest in a raid is a huge help, it is a shame to say even if holy could push better numbers than disc you would still be doing the raid a disservice by not being disc due to the huge amount of utility disc provides the raid.

    TLDR disc is intrinsic to raid groups due to their utility.
    nothing but empty space here bro. move along now.

  9. #9
    Disc is really strong as it bring along with it 40-50k dps, depending on the fight as a disc you can never go oom. Shields are very strong especially if you use spirit shell correctly lots of damage can be prevented.

    the only weakness disc has it straight up healing since a disc cant get a party to full easily but can prevent the raid from dieing.

    If your raid needs that little bit of extra dps then disc could be an option otherwise stay holy, Discs best secondary stat is crit now so to go disc you would have to use as much crit gear as possible.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was basically trying to say that in a 10 man enviroment, Disc usually will out perform holy. 25 Mans is a totally different ball game.

  11. #11
    We are 1/13H, and I run both healing specs. Currently, I use holy for H Jin'Rok, N Tortos, and N Lei Shen. I co-heal with a resto shaman, so when we need burst aoe healing (especially when spread or running around), holy just works out better. I usually start progression on any boss as discipline and then see if there are problems that can be fixed by running holy. I run with enough haste on my gear for the first breakpoint in renew (glyphed) although I sometimes have enough pieces of gear to swap for less as disc.

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  12. #12
    I have question, can disc and holy priests work in 10man raid or even 2 both discs priests in 10m ?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelicat View Post
    and working on Heroic Iron Qon (and probably Heroic Horridon next)
    while both specs are viable, both have their 'better moments'. you might consider picking disc for horridon progress (but if you dont want to then its still fine), and be happy that holy is awesome on iron qon

    i am surprised with this progress order, i found horridon hc much easier then iron qon hc, but i guess this is setup-dependand

    Quote Originally Posted by Myxa View Post
    I have question, can disc and holy priests work in 10man raid or even 2 both discs priests in 10m ?
    holy and disc are perfect symbiosis.
    two disc in 10man can work, but have to agree on stuff like shields for rapture (at least on some fights) - its perfect combo for example for twins hc.
    Last edited by babylon; 2013-05-07 at 10:01 AM.

  14. #14
    High Overlord holypriest's Avatar
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    I'm in the same boat as you. I'm currently 5/13H 10 man and I've played holy for every progression fight but get a lot of pressure to go disc for the extra dps.
    It honestly depends on the issue you guys are having on the fights your struggling on. If you guys are having problems hitting the dps check disc may help you out as it basically adds another half a dps for every fight. You could also try 2 healing Iron Qon, I honestly found that the phases going faster was worth the loss of a healer. Honestly though I think if your carrying your weight pretty much every fight can be done as holy though a lot of fights on 10 man, such as Horridon, definitely favor disc.
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  15. #15
    High Overlord Vilbu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myxa View Post
    I have question, can disc and holy priests work in 10man raid or even 2 both discs priests in 10m ?
    While this might not be optimal and will make things alot harder buff-wise (talking about 10's), we used two priest healers for some of our first kills. Holy and Disc but never two of a kind. Seemed to work pretty decent, only downside is overlapping PoM.

    As a priest either disc or holy I mostly enjoy healing with a resto shaman. I don't know why.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myxa View Post
    I have question, can disc and holy priests work in 10man raid or even 2 both discs priests in 10m ?
    We do have 2 disc priests in our 10 man roster, we killed horridon hc with 2xdisc, durumu hc with 2x disc and we are currently progressing on dark animus with 2x disc=) I would say the most important about running 2x disc is to trigger rapture and cast pom on yourself duing aoe phases, so you can still use penance/solace offensive without healing yourself. Only use it on tanks when its really needed.

  17. #17
    Thanks for the comment guys. We got IQ last night so I'm gonna try disc for heroic horridon this week. Hopefully I get the hang of it fast lol.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Myxa View Post
    I have question, can disc and holy priests work in 10man raid or even 2 both discs priests in 10m ?
    Our setup consists of exactly this, a Disc and Holy and we've managed so far to get 5/13hc in ToT. It actually works pretty good other than the annoyance of PoM.

  19. #19
    For 10 men disc is simply better for progressing majority of fights. Both specs can surely HEAL fights, thats not problem. But damage disc brings is really valuable as its very common situation that even little bit of extra dps allows to beat soft or hard enrage timer, or kill that one important add just fast enough.

    Also atonement is very strong because its smart heal, atonement is very often first heal to arrive on someone who just got hit by something and is in low health. And as its larger heal than usual smart heals from other classes/specs, it really makes difference and saves lives.

  20. #20
    disc is the ideal 10 man healer with very few exceptions. the amount of dps you get from a disc is very significant, and on top of that they are more than capable of keeping up HPS wise (plus absorbs>HoTs). on top of this disc has the superior tank cooldown and i really don't see the reason to go holy.

    take a 10 man with two atonement spammers and health bars will barely move outside of super heavy damage phases (which can be muted quite successfully with SS's). as soon as someones DA gets eaten through, they get hit by atonement heals until they get topped back up and DA'd.

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