The most broken spell in game - Killing Spree

[Deleted]

Sooo, I have specced to combat because I was lucky to get 2 heroic axes and 4pcs T15. I was excited to try it because of the change after about year of spamming mutilate. But for real, nothing changed, killing spree is still stupid.
I have tried almost every HC boss except Lei shen. So there are my findings:
Jin'rokh - don't use it while lighting storm, you will probably die
Horridon - killing spree on adds, sometimes it jumps to the boss during double swipe. Soooooo awesome! you will probably die
Council - Sand traps, Frostbite. if you do it in bad time, you will probably die
Tortos - not so broken here. When you killing spree you will jump under the boss and you are save here. (I think) you will probably not die here!
Megaera - I would say lol. Don't use it here. It's useless and stupid. When you try to killing spree living head it will jump to the place where isn't head! so, you will do nothing, just watching your character jumping in front of nothing. You will probably not die, but your face will be like... WTF I've just done.
Ji-kun - not good idea to use killing spree during nest where big add needs to be tanked. You can jump in front of him and die.
Durumu - killing spree during maze = death
Primordius - killing spree jumping all over the room, sometimes it jumps down to the stair where is way to the Ra-den. You'll see what others can't. Coool
Dark Animus- ehm, you know... jumping everywhere around the room.
Iron Qon - I think one and only boss of instance where you probably can't die. Except one thing - when under boss is fire or frost line (I don't know name of ability). You can die.
Twin Consorts - Jumping from ice coment to ice coment and to the boss and then .... bleh.

grammar nazis- come at me, I am from czech rep. :P

[Zanpakuto]

Killing Spree just requires a bit of restraint. You need to be aware of what's happening or about to happen before you use it blindly. Many of the situations you mention can be avoided by looking at a dbm timer. Give it a couple weeks and you will instinctively known when to and when not to use it. It is frustrating tho when it goes wrong and you are punished for using it.

[MickoLis]

killing spree has a ten yard radius from your starting position. if you dontt want it to hit a certain mob. make sure you are more than ten away.

[Geckoo]

I agree that the skill has some pretty big bad negative points and some time suicidal spree is a more apropiate name, but... using it during lighting storm, or during durumu's maze... is just stupid, so don't blame the skill, blame the rogue that ever thinks to use it in those situations. Most of the times is just a bad decision on when to use it more than simply a broken skill. They should take a deep look into it anyway.

[D3athsting]

There must be a reson if ppl often call it "killme spree"

[jtstormrage]

It is a fun ability but often really impratical.

It should just be a special that doesnt move you. Like Fists of Fury or even just an ability that increase your autoattack damage and attack rate for 3.5 seconds.

Alternatively they could make it so you don't take damage during KS, to stop (some) deaths.

However, NB there is a glyph to teleport you back to your starting position - this helps on some fights.

[Koji2k11]

It is a fun ability but often really impratical.

It should just be a special that doesnt move you. Like Fists of Fury or even just an ability that increase your autoattack damage and attack rate for 3.5 seconds.

Alternatively they could make it so you don't take damage during KS, to stop (some) deaths.

However, NB there is a glyph to teleport you back to your starting position - this helps on some fights.

this glyph is just a bandaid solution to this skill like most of the things rogue got pve and pvp wise

[D3athsting]

It's the only ability in game that makes you totally lose control of you character for its duration, even the "similar" bladestorm allows you to "move out of fire" while whirling, in an early mop version it was a talent and worked like the proc of fangs of the father, then they reverted it the actual suicidal version...

[Venant]

The problem with KS is that it is a signature ability of combat, and it is ridiculous that the signature ability of a major build should be incredibly quirky and unreliable.

[Deleted]

Jin'rokh - don't use it while lighting storm, you will probably die
If you use it during lightning storm, gg.

Horridon - killing spree on adds, sometimes it jumps to the boss during double swipe. Soooooo awesome! you will probably die
If you use it during swipe, gg.

Council - Sand traps, Frostbite. if you do it in bad time, you will probably die
If you use it while bosses are on a sand trap, gg. Beside, you can somewhat easily make it hit only one boss.

Tortos - not so broken here. When you killing spree you will jump under the boss and you are save here. (I think) you will probably not die here!
It's precisely the boss where it's the most broken. It can sometimes cause you to go through the floor and die.

Megaera - I would say lol. Don't use it here. It's useless and stupid. When you try to killing spree living head it will jump to the place where isn't head! so, you will do nothing, just watching your character jumping in front of nothing. You will probably not die, but your face will be like... WTF I've just done.
Never got any problem with Megaera.

Ji-kun - not good idea to use killing spree during nest where big add needs to be tanked. You can jump in front of him and die.
If you use it while there's a big add, gg.

Durumu - killing spree during maze = death
If you use it during maze or walls, gg.

Primordius - killing spree jumping all over the room, sometimes it jumps down to the stair where is way to the Ra-den. You'll see what others can't. Coool
Never got any problem with this boss, but I guess that's cause I never used it while he's on the Ra-den "door".

Dark Animus- ehm, you know... jumping everywhere around the room.
Make it only target the boss, and it's a win.

Iron Qon - I think one and only boss of instance where you probably can't die. Except one thing - when under boss is fire or frost line (I don't know name of ability). You can die.
If you use it while the boss is on a line of fire/storm/frost, gg.

Twin Consorts - Jumping from ice coment to ice coment and to the boss and then .... bleh.
Again, you can make it target only the boss.

On Lei Shen though, crashing thunders make it hard to use on P1.

After reading this, I'm actually liking this skill even more, it's kind of an idiot detector.

[Deleted]

After reading this, I'm actually liking this skill even more, it's kind of an idiot detector.

I've heard similar arguments being made before and it's simply flat out stupid... It's not supposed to be an "idiot detector" - it's supposed to reliably produce numbers.
It doesn't - and it often costs you your life to use it. You can defend the ability as much as you want, but it's a broken ability no serious raider would pick if given the choice. That's the bottom line.

Is it a tasteful ability? Sure.
Does it look cool? I guess.
Is it a reliable dps-cooldown/mechanic? Hell no.

I urge you to point out other cooldowns that function similarly. By that I mean cooldowns that, if used at the "wrong time" end up outright killing you and/or your raid team.

[Linneth]

I love how some people are saying "don't use while X", which seems to be the case on most fights. That means that you will probably lose 2 or 3 Killing Spree CDs on some fights, resulting in a DPS loss Combat's damage isn't tuned for. When it was implemented (WotLK) it was a hard-hitting 2min CD which caused you to lose control of your character for 2.5 seconds; now it's a 45 second CD thanks to Restless Blades which causes you to lose control of your character for 3.5 second on a much more unfriendly raiding environment. It amazes how they haven't even attached it's "AoE" component with Blade Flurry, which could prevent Killing Spree to derp with pets on PvP.

[Soisoisoi]

So basically, don't use it any time you have to avoid something near a boss. That makes it broken? Just don't use it at a stupid time, sure, you'll be losing out on potential DPS, but it's not that bad. Using anything at the wrong time is bad, as it should be.

[Demeia]

I've heard similar arguments being made before and it's simply flat out stupid... It's not supposed to be an "idiot detector" - it's supposed to reliably produce numbers.
It doesn't - and it often costs you your life to use it. You can defend the ability as much as you want, but it's a broken ability no serious raider would pick if given the choice. That's the bottom line.

Is it a tasteful ability? Sure.
Does it look cool? I guess.
Is it a reliable dps-cooldown/mechanic? Hell no.

I urge you to point out other cooldowns that function similarly. By that I mean cooldowns that, if used at the "wrong time" end up outright killing your and/or your raid team.

Bad rogues play this game too. Blizzard accepts that, embraces it, lets them get gear in LFR. If this is killing those bad rogues and making their life miserable, it's a bad talent. The fact that a good rogue who understands the fights can get around it does not make it a good skill. Decent players are just going to make mistakes and get themselves killed with a talent they really need to use on cooldown.

It's hideous.

[Deleted]

So basically, don't use it any time you have to avoid something near a boss. That makes it broken? Just don't use it at a stupid time, sure, you'll be losing out on potential DPS, but it's not that bad. Using anything at the wrong time is bad, as it should be.

Firing a 10 megaton nuclear warhead into enemy territory while your own troops are still inside can be considered "using something at the wrong time"...
Using a cooldown, in a raid, against a boss, should never be detrimental to your dps - unless it's a window of time in which ALL cooldowns are universally wasted - not just Killing Spree alone. Neither should it jeopardize you own safety or that of your raid team. It puts too much pressure on one single person and punishes him if he doesn't accept that responsibility.

Don't pretend a raid is a high-precision military battleground. You fulfill a role in your raid team, and as a dps, your job is to squeeze out as many numbers as possible. A cooldown that prohibits said activity is, by definition, a sub-standard cooldown. "...you'll be losing out on potential DPS..." In a balanced environment that alone is sufficient to prove my point.

[ZenX]

Sooo, I have specced to combat because I was lucky to get 2 heroic axes and 4pcs T15. I was excited to try it because of the change after about year of spamming mutilate. But for real, nothing changed, killing spree is still stupid.
I have tried almost every HC boss except Lei shen. So there are my findings:
Jin'rokh - don't use it while lighting storm, you will probably die
Horridon - killing spree on adds, sometimes it jumps to the boss during double swipe. Soooooo awesome! you will probably die
Council - Sand traps, Frostbite. if you do it in bad time, you will probably die
Tortos - not so broken here. When you killing spree you will jump under the boss and you are save here. (I think) you will probably not die here!
Megaera - I would say lol. Don't use it here. It's useless and stupid. When you try to killing spree living head it will jump to the place where isn't head! so, you will do nothing, just watching your character jumping in front of nothing. You will probably not die, but your face will be like... WTF I've just done.
Ji-kun - not good idea to use killing spree during nest where big add needs to be tanked. You can jump in front of him and die.
Durumu - killing spree during maze = death
Primordius - killing spree jumping all over the room, sometimes it jumps down to the stair where is way to the Ra-den. You'll see what others can't. Coool
Dark Animus- ehm, you know... jumping everywhere around the room.
Iron Qon - I think one and only boss of instance where you probably can't die. Except one thing - when under boss is fire or frost line (I don't know name of ability). You can die.
Twin Consorts - Jumping from ice coment to ice coment and to the boss and then .... bleh.

grammar nazis- come at me, I am from czech rep. :P

Lol this reminded of how I fell down in Ultraxion thanks to it -_-

[Kael]

I urge you to point out other cooldowns that function similarly. By that I mean cooldowns that, if used at the "wrong time" end up outright killing you and/or your raid team.

This is the primary issue I have with it. We should at least be able to sacrifice a glyph to make it not and "idiot detector", because losing out on that damage is absurd. We're balanced around using killing spree on cooldown, and not being able to do that, or making it have the extreme potential to kill us at certain times in a fight, makes that spec worse design than our others. If Sub, Combat and Assassination pull the EXACT SAME DPS on a particular fight, the best one to pick is not-combat, assuming there's something you don't want to stand in, that the boss's center might.

Very similarly, the mage time-freeze thing where they revert buffs and all that jazz for 6 seconds, has disastrous results when used at the wrong time, and equally gets used for highest DPS effect based on buffs, rather than combat events - both are too high in opportunity cost, the same way you don't rely on Nitro Boosts if you have another movement cooldown that will suffice.

[Soisoisoi]

I urge you to point out other cooldowns that function similarly. By that I mean cooldowns that, if used at the "wrong time" end up outright killing you and/or your raid team.

Alter Time.

Firing a 10 megaton nuclear warhead into enemy territory while your own troops are still inside can be considered "using something at the wrong time"...
Using a cooldown, in a raid, against a boss, should never be detrimental to your dps - unless it's a window of time in which ALL cooldowns are universally wasted - not just Killing Spree alone. Neither should it jeopardize you own safety or that of your raid team. It puts too much pressure on one single person and punishes him if he doesn't accept that responsibility.

Don't pretend a raid is a high-precision military battleground. You fulfill a role in your raid team, and as a dps, your job is to squeeze out as many numbers as possible. A cooldown that prohibits said activity is, by definition, a sub-standard cooldown. "...you'll be losing out on potential DPS..." In a balanced environment that alone is sufficient to prove my point.

Using it at the right time to ensure you get the most uses and the most out of cooldowns is what separates the good players from the bad. I'm not saying it's "fine", I'm saying it's not terrible and there is always a time to use cooldowns properly. A lot of other abilities have to be used with restraint or it can end up... not good. I was DW Frost through MSV, doing nothing during Maddening Shout on Spirit Kings was also one of those things. Alter Time, as said above, is also one of those cooldowns which is very likely to get you killed as it puts you in the same place you were when you used it (try using that on Durumu's maze).

[Fullmetal89]

I love the rogue class but it really really needs some reworking. If any class needs a warlock treatment its the rogue.

[Squirl]

I did 11/13 H as Combat due to many agi non-daggers and zero (0; none) dagger drops until last week despite coining Iron Qon and Megaera every week. You just have to be aware of where you'll end up and what's going on.

Sure, a DPS cooldown shouldn't have the potential to kill you, but it's not that big of a deal this tier. It only killed me once this entire patch; there was a pool just barely clipping the center of Ji-Kun and I already had high slime stacks from catching blobs throughout the fight (should have cloaked the stack anyway). H Dark Animus got really really sketching near the end, but I could take up to 3 Fonts before dying with Feint+Elusiveness. A lot of this is getting a feel for targeting KSp with the 10yd start radius when possible.

Yes, I've had to sit on cooldown in order to not die, but it's never more than 20-30s. If your tanks are cool, you can ask them to move most bosses if KSp will kill you in their current position.

I also haven't been dropped through the world from KSp this tier (ShS in Prim's room dropped me once though); are you running the glyph? The glyph has always been nothing but trouble except when it's necessary. I haven't touched it this tier.