Elemental Pull sequence

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

I recently got my 4p (finally) + meta and switched back to EotE and EB. Now I was thinking about my pull rotation. With PE and EM that was pretty clear but now since EB plays a role I cant decide whats better.

First sequence:

Fire ele
Prepot+EB (at 3 of countdown)
FS (as tank pulls at 1 to 0 from the countdown)
LvB
Ascendence --> LvB Spam

Now I was thinking about a 2nd sequence:

Firele
Prepot+LB (at 3 of countdown)
FS (as tank pulls at 1 to 0 from the countdown)
LvB
EB
Ascendence --> LvB Spam

Now, what are my arguments:
The first sequence provides more instant dmg as you basically pull with your potentially highest hitting ability, BUT without any procs or the clearcasting proc.
The second sequence has the chance of LB or flameshock providing a crit (clearcasting and trinket proc), so the first EB could hit much harder), but you "waste" at least one gcd for the first LB for "proc fishing" as I want to call it now.

What do you think?

[Deleted]

One thing you should note is that your fire elemental will take a snapshot of your current stats at the given second you cast it, it's a large DPS loss to cast it before you have your prepot/trinkets/jade spirit/whatever other stat buff you can muster up. It's always better to wait for a steroid juiced fire elemental than cast it early

[Deleted]

Thats not correct, thats what it used to be in cata, but Im 95% sure, that the fire elemental doesn't take a snapshot of your stats anymore but scales with your sp and haste/crit etc.

[orderschvank]

can people stop lying about the fire ele snap shotting, jesus... MoP has been out for a long time, this doesnt happen anymore..

also.

from my experience, the meta always procs on the pull, so i have been casting a lightning bolt with my EB before i put up flameshock so my first FS gets the haste from the meta.

[Deleted]

Thats a good tip actually, I'll keep that in mind.

[Deleted]

Talked to the other elemental shaman in my guild about this before.

I currently do
Prepot+Lightning bolt
Fire ele while the LB is in the air
Flame shock
Lava burst
EB
Spam.

Don't think waiting 1 extra gcd for a buffed Fs is worth it, but may be. You get 3 extra ticks from it.

[Deleted]

You haven't factored Stormlash into your rotation. Waiting for flame shock is a few tenths of a second, rather than a full GCD, and as a result I'm pretty sure it's worth it if you're using Breath of the Hydra.

[Deleted]

Potion > EB (2 secs before pull)
FE > FS
LvB > Asc > LvB... ... .. .

---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 01:58 PM ----------

You haven't factored Stormlash into your rotation. Waiting for flame shock is a few tenths of a second, rather than a full GCD, and as a result I'm pretty sure it's worth it if you're using Breath of the Hydra.

STT is used after Asc generally. People simmed it to be a DPS lose in 5.0.. doubt anything changed since then.

[Socialhealer]

Potion > EB (2 secs before pull)
FE > FS
LvB > Asc > LvB... ... ..

this, it's also good because fire elemental wastes no time standing around before it goes and attacks the boss, as EB lands FE is dropped and immediately starts dps, i found if you did FE then FS, then FE just stood around for a bit.

and 25man ftw a resto/enha shaman will drop STT i drop mine after i finish asc, then 10 secs later the other ele shaman drops his.

[Deleted]

this, it's also good because fire elemental wastes no time standing around before it goes and attacks the boss, as EB lands FE is dropped and immediately starts dps, i found if you did FE then FS, then FE just stood around for a bit.

and 25man ftw a resto/enha shaman will drop STT i drop mine after i finish asc, then 10 secs later the other ele shaman drops his.

Point the OP was trying to make is that doing LB first, and doing EB right before ascendance is probably a dps increase then doing EB at pull.

[Gendori]

Fire elemental updates dynamically now so there is no reason to stack stacks beforehand.

Having said that my opener depends on wether or not we pop hero at tge start of the fight...

No Hero: I cast EB with 1.5 seconds left on the DBM pull timer. Then while its travelling to the boss I pop fire elemental. By the time the gcd from my fire elemental is up the EB has hit the boss so my meta and trinkets popped, so I can get a nice big hasted flame shock. Then I cast LvB and ascendance. I stormlash after ascendance.

If we hero at the start I cast fire elemental before EB and Hero instead of fire elemental after EB

This is just what I found works for me...im not sure if its optimal or not im curious to see what others are doing.

[Deleted]

Potion > EB (2 secs before pull)
FE > FS
LvB > Asc > LvB... ... .. .

---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 01:58 PM ----------



STT is used after Asc generally. People simmed it to be a DPS lose in 5.0.. doubt anything changed since then.

It's a DPS loss for you, but a massive gain for the raid...

[Socialhealer]

Point the OP was trying to make is that doing LB first, and doing EB right before ascendance is probably a dps increase then doing EB at pull.

nope because you have a 1/3 chance you will get mastery, haste and crit will be useless since lava burst is 100% crit, and haste well if you're not under 1 second with lust/meta gem......

there is no reason to be casting lightning bolt for at least 20 seconds into the pull.

[Deleted]

nope because you have a 1/3 chance you will get mastery, haste and crit will be useless since lava burst is 100% crit, and haste well if you're not under 1 second with lust/meta gem......

there is no reason to be casting lightning bolt for at least 20 seconds into the pull.

Did you even read the OP?
The argument is that you are 100% sure to get a clearcasting EB. You don't loose anything on it except doing ascendance one global later, if you get 3500 mastery it's quite abit of extra burst in the start however.

It's a DPS loss for you, but a massive gain for the raid...

Anyone saving STT should be casted after ascendance is indeed doing something wrong. It's like rogues not tricksing. I didn't include it in my opening because we always have our restoration shammy use it first, but if you're alone in the raid, it's very imporant to use it before asc.

Now, what are my arguments:
The first sequence provides more instant dmg as you basically pull with your potentially highest hitting ability, BUT without any procs or the clearcasting proc.
The second sequence has the chance of LB or flameshock providing a crit (clearcasting and trinket proc), so the first EB could hit much harder), but you "waste" at least one gcd for the first LB for "proc fishing" as I want to call it now.

What do you think?

You're forgetting that your EB will have the clearcasting proc 100% of the time, because you do a LvB before it.


Lastly, for everyone that is saying EB first, i myself did that until recently, could i have the arguments for doing it? Both of our BiS trinkets have procs longer then 20 seconds, so using Asendance one second later shouldn't be an issue. You get a stronger EB, you loose nothing on the pre-pot and you loose no trinket procs, maybe even gain one extra for the full duration. If EB procs mastery it's also a very nice bonus.

[bokonan]

nope because you have a 1/3 chance you will get mastery, haste and crit will be useless since lava burst is 100% crit, and haste well if you're not under 1 second with lust/meta gem......

there is no reason to be casting lightning bolt for at least 20 seconds into the pull.

crit and haste are the two best stats for fire elemental scaling outside of spell power. while they won't do much for you personally during ascendance, they are still beneficial stats for you on the pull and they are not wasted unless you cannot use your fire elemental on the pull for some reason

[mrinvisable2]

i have macroed ascendance with stt

[bokonan]

i have macroed ascendance with stt

i would not macro these together. ascendance is not on the gcd, stormlash is. so if your macro casts totem and ascendance at the same time, you may be missing out on a lava burst due to the fact that ascendance is triggered with the global cooldown on your totem instead of letting you cast a lava burst with this first global

[Deleted]

You gain exactly the same amount of EB's for your fire ele though, doesn't matter if you delay it 2 more GCDs.

[Deleted]

Anyone saving STT should be casted after ascendance is indeed doing something wrong. It's like rogues not tricksing. I didn't include it in my opening because we always have our restoration shammy use it first, but if you're alone in the raid, it's very imporant to use it before asc.

Spreading half knowledge is even worse than a rogue not using tricks. You come on this forum without evidence for your claims and insult a general standard we had going on for over half a year now... yep, so pro.

It's a DPS loss for you, but a massive gain for the raid...

You'll be still able to cast it just 2-3 depending on the time, and yours is going out during BL anyways, even if you hold it back. You two should get your facts straight before posting BS.

[Gendori]

Ya, Im curious, why would saving stormlash till after ascendance be a massive DPS loss to the raid? I was always under the assumption it gave you a flat amount of extra damage per attack, and saving it till after ascendance still gives it full uptime during hero, and likely youll still only get 2 off anyway.

Is it a flat amount of damage, is it affected by Pots and trinket procs? Id like some information on this.....