Throne of Thunder nerfed 10%

[theturn]

Assuming you can get the fucking gem, been at 19 for 2 weeks

[NRL1515]

Assuming you can get the fucking gem, been at 19 for 2 weeks

... or you've had the gem for two weeks and can't even get a LFR helm to drop (haunting spirits still to expensive on my server)...

[theturn]

... or you've had the gem for two weeks and can't even get a LFR helm to drop (haunting spirits still to expensive on my server)...

That's why I don't raid lfr

[NRL1515]

That's why I don't raid lfr

ALONG with normal mode. Figured that was implied, but alas.

[Deleted]

My +30% spell haste has an uptime of 15% - this is hardly a 10% gain. It's more like 4-6%

[furydeath]

Too bad this get meta gem takes about 8 months seeing how i'm not even half way done.

[HeedmySpeed]

Raiders should be compelled to obtain whatever they need to be most effective. Same as +300 buff food, flasks, gems, enchants, etc. If you're not doing what you can to be the best you can be you're hurting yourself and the team. (of course this level of min/maxing varies based on team raid goals)

Not to derail the thread but I think you're right here. Raiders ARE compelled to obtain whatever they need to be most effective. Which is why some of us don't think LFR should exist (or drop loot that's better than Heroic blue ilvl).

Food for thought, carry on.

[Deleted]

The meta isn't a "nerf" by any means. A nerf that Blizzard would do would imply less damage taken, health, etc. All gear does and always done is shorten the fight. It doesn't make it so you can last X% longer in an ability.

Regardless of it being a meta gem or not, it still doing the same thing gear has always done in most RPG's and that is make a fight easier by producing higher dps thus shortening the fight, some phases, etc.

When 5.4 hits they will more than likely still hit ToT with a blanket nerf like they did with T14 raids. Then we'll see threads about "Why you nerf ToT is so easy it faceroll lololol"

Just about this. You can't call getting gear a nerf, it's just not the same thing. Also, when talking about nerfs, it applies to everyone. Gear and Meta gem only makes the content easier for those who have it, meaning new players or less progressed players won't benefit from the so called nerfs. And again, nerfs have to apply to everyone, in order for it to be called nerfs. This is just gear progression and nothing else.

---------- Post added 2013-05-08 at 04:13 AM ----------

My +30% spell haste has an uptime of 15% - this is hardly a 10% gain. It's more like 4-6%

Just to rub some salt in that wound, my Meta is doing average of 15% of my dmg

[kamuimac]

My +30% spell haste has an uptime of 15% - this is hardly a 10% gain. It's more like 4-6%

And u see it as minor upgrade ? ><

[Razecog]

It's about 8.696% dmg increase for me. (cba to go deeper into numbers.)

[Mesovr]

Breaking news:

Patch 5.3 blizzard had yet again "Nerf" all content by adding a Cloak at an ilvl of 600,
with this new cloak Dragon soul, Fireland, black temple, Sunwell, Icecrown has been nerf yet again....

more on hidden "nerf of old content" later as they come in.

The biggest "nerf" to raid content in 5.3 will the item upgrade feature.

[Deleted]

Meta gem you have to work for but to get something to put it in is pure rng as it has to be an item from ToT. We have so far for example only seen one cloth head drop since start of ToT. Can't really agree it is a nerf, it is a personal boost if the rng gods are with you

[Deleted]

It's an indirect nerf and an alternative to zone-wide nerfs (I even think blizzard stated this). The result of giving all the players an extra ~10% damage or reducing the bosses health by 10% is pmuch the same, if you feel better telling yourself that you are doing unnerfed content great for you (that's pretty much the intention with item upgrades/lmg over flat nerfs), but the content you are downing is still way easier now than it was a few weeks ago.

lol that escalated quickly.
Yes, gear upgrades makes you stronger, welcome to world of warcraft ?
Nerf means to lower the difficulty of the encounter. The only thing meta really helps is with enrage/some troughput healing, the mechanics will still hurt just as much...
Gem making you progressively stronger as with any and all gear upgrades, its not nerfing the content.

[reflection]

I do like this model to make it a little bit easier step by step. If they nerf the boss and then you finally beat it it feels like: "Hey you could just beat the boss because Blizz nerfed it to the ground and you would have never beaten it without that nerf so you are only a second class player".

But instead it feels like: "Hey I got a little bit more epic and I aquired a little bit more gear and now we were able to kill the boss finally"

Psychological this is 100% more effective, though it's still the same. The item upgrades in 5.3 are also some kind of nerf. If you can keep your 3000 points you should have right now, you can upgrade 6(!) items by 8 ilvls. Don't tell me that this doesn't indirectly nerf the content. This pushes the average raid item level by roughly 6 points. If that isn't a huge buff (or nerf for the instance itself) I don't know what else is.

[Greywardenn]

Hold on a second,....getting gear makes raids easier? When did this happen>?

[Shtanky]

Hold on a second,....getting gear makes raids easier? When did this happen>?

In Dragon Soul, did you get an item that instantly increased your general raid effectiveness by 10% or more? Were you able to use superfluous VP to upgrade gear?

Thinking my OP should have just stated, "Legendary Meta gem + VP gear upgrades >>> Raid zone nerfs/buffs"

In any event, just want to re-iterate that I really like this "content accessibility model" compared to the previous incarnations.

[Galedrith]

Assuming people agree that a buff = a nerf, which they don't. The only way your theory holds is if everyone does their job and is a dedicated/good enough player to get all the upgrades to even come close to your '10% nerf' concept. Now let reality set in. Most groups won't come close to a 10% BUFF to help them maybe half will do the work.

[Deleted]

Still, it's only a real "buff"/"nerf" for those who can't use those features to their full extend.
No luck with questitem-drops?
No luck with helmet-drops in Tot or weapon-drops in HoF/ToES (last tier)?
Not capping your valor/clearing all LFRs/clearing ToT every week because you're a casual?

-> too bad for you, you can't see a nerf/buff here

a real nerf is something that influences the encounter-difficulty for everyone, no matter how geared/skilled/experienced/drop-lucky you are.

The stuff they are giving us right now with upgrades and what not is just a new kind of item-progression. Remeber DS? There were zone-wide nerf-steps which were a real nerf to the instance itself. THEN there were epic gems og which I never heard that they were called a content-nerf.

[Deleted]

In Dragon Soul, did you get an item that instantly increased your general raid effectiveness by 10% or more? Were you able to use superfluous VP to upgrade gear?

Thinking my OP should have just stated, "Legendary Meta gem + VP gear upgrades >>> Raid zone nerfs/buffs"

In any event, just want to re-iterate that I really like this "content accessibility model" compared to the previous incarnations.

Legendary staff before and after nerf was bigger, harder to get, but still just a grind.
The proc weapons off madness(even lfr versions) bit rng but 6-12% dps increase, atleast for the strenght dps one.
The rogue legendary daggers.

And for some classes the meta is "only" 5-8% increase.

[Deleted]

I just did the last quarter of LFR ToT after the reset and did not see either a decapitate or a beast of nightmares. Has there been a further nerf to LFR? I guess it was either a glitch or I was not paying attention (both are rather hard to miss when tanking, though).