heroic horridon 25 man dps checking and help!!!

[ruggleee]

since i figured that we got to the enrage several time and the boss was only at 25% at the end, im thinking seriously about that some people dont do their job on the dps and so..anyway here are some logs of our trys last night

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...?s=3267&e=4034

it is one of our try where we got the enrage far until we are dead on the last dire call berserk, the first try was pretty bad becuz i had lua spamming error in my screen, otherwise i was fine for myself, so im asking some questions

1- who should do more dps on this fight and be sincere on this

2- do you think our mages should be fire on this fight?( and personaly yes they should be)

3- any plan to be successful on the dps?( i think the 3 lock and myself, where i was only at 515 IL, we are fine)

THX TO help my new 25 man grp on this

p.s and yes kathun is destro where destro is very good on this fight with havoc and our lock are thinking to go destro only for this fight, and they are able to play it fine since both have played it before

[Meleti]

I don't see the logs?

[Spoiledkid]

I don't see the logs?

I think the logs are here:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...pes&boss=68476

[Meleti]

You aren't wiping because your DPS are slacking, you are wiping because:

1. You are bleeding people to avoidable mechanics (Frozen Orbs, Living Poison, etc.)
2. Your tanks keep dying, partially because:
3. You are losing people to Dire Call.

What you need to do is rework your Dire Call cooldowns to make sure people can handle the Dire Call damage. Some classes (Mages, Hunters, Spriests, etc.) can immune some of the Dire Calls without much trouble. Anything you can do to improve Dire Call healing, really.

[Deleted]

I only took a look at the Warlocks : Kathun does the fight kinda well and should explain what he does to Hckill (and Hanculey maybe. Is he french ? weird name lol).
Hckill is clearly not using Havoc enough (only 25sec cd) :
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...pes&boss=68476

Which reflects to the damage done by Shadowburn :
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...pes&boss=68476

If you don't have problems to kill waves, do more AoE, more focus on the boss and less on single adds.

[ruggleee]

You aren't wiping because your DPS are slacking, you are wiping because:

1. You are bleeding people to avoidable mechanics (Frozen Orbs, Living Poison, etc.)
2. Your tanks keep dying, partially because:
3. You are losing people to Dire Call.

What you need to do is rework your Dire Call cooldowns to make sure people can handle the Dire Call damage. Some classes (Mages, Hunters, Spriests, etc.) can immune some of the Dire Calls without much trouble. Anything you can do to improve Dire Call healing, really.

our tanks are not really dying except at the last phase where horiddon hit like a truck, while some dps are taking too much damages, we can manage to get to the last phase.

the better we got on the boss is 25% and we had all people up at the end(pretty) we had 2 people missing yesterday(where usually they are top meter with us)

it seem that mage are really low for their gear, and we had thought let our assasination rogue and may be the enhancement shaman on the boss all the time? would not help?

[MattCauthron]

What % is the boss at going into the final phase? We AOE the adds on the boss in order to increase damage on the boss (We don't do this on the frost door as we had issues with frozen orbs). Also possibly look into how much healing is getting off on the 2nd door. You need to make sure interrupting those heals is priority as a ton of healing can happen if left unchecked.

As for dire call... This should not be an issue for your healing comp. Two disc priests are capable of literally negating 100% of the dire call damage essentially erasing the mechanic from the fight.

[Socialhealer]

your ele shamans are too low for sure, i killed this yesterday, mostly purging my fucking direhorn in the 200% nuke phase, trying to make totem attack it and cl boss to direhorn miserably, but i still finished on 269k dps, without a direhorn i'd easily finish the fight on 400k dps.

[Deleted]

your ele shamans are too low for sure, i killed this yesterday, mostly purging my fucking direhorn in the 200% nuke phase, trying to make totem attack it and cl boss to direhorn miserably, but i still finished on 269k dps, without a direhorn i'd easily finish the fight on 400k dps.

So you would have done about 100k dps more than the rank 1 non asian elemental shaman on the fight? We believe you.

[ruggleee]

your ele shamans are too low for sure, i killed this yesterday, mostly purging my fucking direhorn in the 200% nuke phase, trying to make totem attack it and cl boss to direhorn miserably, but i still finished on 269k dps, without a direhorn i'd easily finish the fight on 400k dps.

so you saying at 208k(on our best attemp) i was like too low? i had 515 IL yesterday, hard to do 250k damage at this points, i do agree that the other elemental shaman is low for the same IL that me

[Art3x]

So you would have done about 100k dps more than the rank 1 non asian elemental shaman on the fight? We believe you.

Seems legit to me...

[Socialhealer]

So you would have done about 100k dps more than the rank 1 non asian elemental shaman on the fight? We believe you.

yup because he also has to spend time dealing with his direhorn, removing that would also increase his dps, just saying i'm probably not handling the direhorn well, but before i get it i'm easily holding 300-320k, and horridons damage taken is only increasing.

there's times where searing is placed perfectly so it can only nuke the direhorn and not the boss which allows me to freely nuke, and there is times where i don't manage this and i'm basically casting purge every 2nd GCD to push it away.

[Windry]

First off, if your raid's avg ilvl is 515, you shouldn't be too discouraged. Horridon is a gear check fight and a lot of the top guilds who were in 509-517 ilvl ranged struggled with the DPS check on the 1st week.

At that ilvl it's pretty important to go into the last phase with 25 people alive. It seems to me like you're losing quite a few people at gate 4. Our group had a similar issue.

I don't remember if they implemented this change yet: "Shamans don't cast chain lightning while they're on the Warbear," but what we did was:
- 1st Flame Caster comes out, melee blows it up.
- 1st Warbear comes out, everyone swaps to it, we drop grounding totems and try to do a controlled spread
- After the 1st Warbear died, and the Shaman spawned, the other 2 Warbears would come down, and we'd try to cleave off of them.
During this time, we have 2 people designated to interrupting Chain Lightning, 2 DK's designated to Death Grip in Flame Casters and focus interrupt them.

- The Dinomancer drops, and we turn to burn him. We use 2 Devo Auras here because the Shamans on the Bears were still doing uninterpretable CL.
- After the Dinomancer is at 50%, we turn back and cleave down both Warbears at the same time.
- Even with 2 shamans up, they don't cast Hex back to back (there's always a 10-15 second window), so as long as you have 4-5 players to Decurse, you should be fine.
- Once the door is closed and it's just 2 Shaman and a few small adds, we have melee swap and just start DPS'ing the boss to avoid lightning totem deaths.

- It's not that big of a deal if ranged has to take longer to finish up these adds because melee should be getting in good boss DPS during this time, where most ranged can DPS adds and still multidot the boss.
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Once all the adds are dead, we move to the side where the Frozen Warlords spawned (3rd gate) so we can swap to War God Jalak as soon as he lands.
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I'm sure everyone in your guild is running with the macro:
/tar Direhorn Spirit
/cast Nether Tempest
/targetlasttarget

However... I'm sure you see most guilds stay stacked for the last burn phase and constantly knock their Direhorn Spirit backwards, but I actually think you should DPS and move during the last burn phase.

MELEE will probably start getting the spirits during the burn phase and rather than taking up GCD's to hit the Direhorn, they should just start DPS'ing while running circles around the boss.

Ranged IMO should DPS the boss and slowly move away from their Spirit.
Consider, what is a bigger loss in DPS?
a) You have to use every other GCD to knock back a Dino
b) You DPS on the move

As long as everyone works their way back to the boss and stacks up 10 seconds before the next Dire Call (which happens once a minute), there's no reason for the raid to stay stacked during the entire burn phase.
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Last thing: I personally play a mage and I went Fire for this fight.

From what I've seen Fire is slightly better on this fight, but Frost is VERY CLOSE and very competitive on this fight. Both specs require very different gear set ups, and if your mages don't have a lot of crit gear, then it's pointless to force them to play Fire.

[ruggleee]

- 1st Warbear comes out, everyone swaps to it, we drop grounding totems and try to do a controlled spread


are you saying that grounding totem work against chainlightning or fireball?

[Windry]

- 1st Warbear comes out, everyone swaps to it, we drop grounding totems and try to do a controlled spread


are you saying that grounding totem work against chainlightning or fireball?

Yes, but keep in mind Grounding Totem is party only, not raid wide. So we just spread the Shaman out in groups, drop them and pray. CL should never hit anyone in melee now (as long as they are in melee ranged of the enemy Shaman), so you don't want the Grounding Totem in the tank or melee group.

[ruggleee]

Yes, but keep in mind Grounding Totem is party only, not raid wide. So we just spread the Shaman out in groups, drop them and pray. CL should never hit anyone in melee now (as long as they are in melee ranged of the enemy Shaman), so you don't want the Grounding Totem in the tank or melee group.

very nice, i had tried to kick chain lightning when shamans are on bear, it dont work, but when bear is dead yeah its possible

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 11:17 PM ----------

so i come back with my questions

who should do more dps on this fight and be sincere on this?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...?s=3267&e=4034

here the logs of our best try

p.s woud be a possibility to let our rogue and enhancement shaman full time on horridon? thought?

---------- Post added 2013-05-03 at 02:56 AM ----------

anyone? would be good to let 1-2 melee on the boss for horridon?

[Windry]

so i come back with my questions
who should do more dps on this fight and be sincere on this?
p.s woud be a possibility to let our rogue and enhancement shaman full time on horridon? thought?

Warlocks and Ele Shaman do really well on this fight. Mages are a noticeable step lower on this fight, but they're still strong. If you want to see what class really does well on the fight, you can just look at the top overall rankings for each fight, or you can look at RaidBots.

As to your question of whether or not to stick 2 melee on Horridon the whole fight, that's really a decision that you should make on your own. The bottom line is you need X amount of DPS to kill the adds in a timely manner, and beyond that, you obviously want to get as much Boss DPS as possible. Your RL has to have a feel for: the gear, the personnel, and the consistency that your raid needs to reach that X amount of DPS on adds.

All ranged should also personally have a feel and awareness to realize when adds are dying quickly and Boss DPS is available, or when adds are dying slowly and they need to completely ignore the boss for the next few seconds to clean up adds.

TLDR;
Is it feasible? Yes
Should you do it? You have to decide for yourself.

[ruggleee]

Warlocks and Ele Shaman do really well on this fight. Mages are a noticeable step lower on this fight, but they're still strong. If you want to see what class really does well on the fight, you can just look at the top overall rankings for each fight, or you can look at RaidBots.

As to your question of whether or not to stick 2 melee on Horridon the whole fight, that's really a decision that you should make on your own. The bottom line is you need X amount of DPS to kill the adds in a timely manner, and beyond that, you obviously want to get as much Boss DPS as possible. Your RL has to have a feel for: the gear, the personnel, and the consistency that your raid needs to reach that X amount of DPS on adds.

All ranged should also personally have a feel and awareness to realize when adds are dying quickly and Boss DPS is available, or when adds are dying slowly and they need to completely ignore the boss for the next few seconds to clean up adds.

TLDR;
Is it feasible? Yes
Should you do it? You have to decide for yourself.

alright thx for your answer, yeah im always using raidbots since longtime, but sometime ask at a player who already did it like you is always a good perspective.. in theory we had no prob to let the rogue all the time and adds were going down just fine(nothing so fast, but nothing so slow too) we are close to a kill, this fight just dont let any chance if you made a mistake...

p.s i was curious about the dps becuz i never seen elemental shaman in top at the fight(when is it down) becuz some class stack just way better with the 200% damage done

[ronaro]

your dks are really low... we do 10 man but usually our dk is going unholy and doing 230k+ with 520 ilvl.
We are getting to last phase with horridon at 60% .
We also are 3 healing in 10 man to amke it easier and avoid wipes.

[Saoron]

Dino-Mending 215887804 100.0 %

^ That's your problem.. not dps. Although your dps could push it harder. Get kathun to teach others how to maximize dps, you need to teach the other ele's.. share specific tips and/or macros and/or reforges/specs etc etc.. rogue should be a bit higher.. DK should be a lot higher (I realize he died but his dps even before his death was low.. they're one of the strongest classes for aoe).. And moonkin for sure should be a lot higher. He's probably not managing his cd's properly or sitting on ss procs or something. Get him to go to moonkin forums and get his logs checked. But besides all that, most importantly, dinomancers need to be INSTA interrupted. And not get any healing off. Horridon healed for 215 million hp on that log you posted. That could most likely net you a kill.