View Poll Results: Make sense?

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  • Yes

    71 46.71%
  • No

    81 53.29%
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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Shadow Hunter - Not in Game Essentially a Caster
    Shadow hunters are basically shamans. 3 of their 4 abilities are used by shamans in some form.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcanasm View Post
    I disagree completely. A "Dark Ranger" would just be a spooky Hunter. Add more spell damage, subtract pet. It wouldn't be unique enough.
    Warlocks are just spooky Mages ...

    IMHO I don't we will be see any more new classes for a while. The game can't support that many. GC already has tons trouble balancing the existing classes.

  3. #183
    The Lightbringer Uennie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Warlocks are just spooky Mages ...

    IMHO I don't we will be see any more new classes for a while. The game can't support that many. GC already has tons trouble balancing the existing classes.
    No they are not. Warlocks have their very own set of skills that Mages don't even come close to. Mages can also do things that Warlocks will never be able to do. Just because both use a form of fire doesn't mean they're the same.

  4. #184
    A new class is mainly based on whats fitting/cool for a new expansion.

    Demon hunter is probably the most fitting for a burning legion expansion. Its also a community favourite that has been asked for years. The tinkerer is probably my second favourite. It fits warcraft and it has huge potential I think.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 07:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Both are 100% in the game and have been from day one, they made them into Professions. Granted I would play a tinker if they did it, but I know for a fact they will not give that as a class. Which is sad because they could do a lot of different things.

    Reason Why not, Gnomes and Goblins. I think that speaks for it's self really. Would they add a Class which represents the Joke races? No.

    So lets look at the full list of Hero Classes:


    Paladin · Archmage · Mountain King · Blood Mage
    Blademaster · Far Seer · Tauren Chieftain · Shadow Hunter
    Lich · Death Knight · Dread Lord · Crypt Lord
    Keeper of the Grove · Priestess of the Moon · Demon Hunter · Warden
    Naga Sea Witch · Dark Ranger · Pandaren Brewmaster · Beastmaster · Pit Lord · Goblin Tinker · Firelord · Goblin Alchemist

    Now lets see were they are.

    Paladin - Full Class
    Archmage - Max Level Mage with a Title
    Mountain King -Dwarven Shamen
    Blood Mage - Mage/Warlock spells
    Blademaster - Warrior/Mage Spell
    Far Seer - Orc Shaman
    Tauren Chieftain - Tauren Shaman
    Shadow Hunter - Not in Game Essentially a Caster
    Lich - Race Type/Necromancer
    Death Knight - Full Class in Game
    Dread Lord - Race Type/Warlock
    Crypt Lord -Race Type/Death Knight/Warrior
    Keeper of the Grove - Race Type/Druid
    Priestess of the Moon - Covered by Priests and Rogues
    Demon Hunter - Class Is not in Game, Some spells split between Rogues and Warlocks
    Warden - Class Not in Game Spells covered By Night Elf Racials and Rogues
    Naga Sea Witch - Race Type/Some spells given to Hunters, some given to Shamen
    Dark Ranger - Class Not in Game/ Some spells covered by Hunters, Death Knights and Warlock Pets.
    Pandaren Brewmaster - Class was merged in to the Monk class.
    Beastmaster - Class was merged in to the Hunter Class
    Pit Lord - Race type/ Spells split by Mages and Warlocks
    Goblin Tinker - Class not in Game/ Spells given to Gnome and Goblin Racials and the Engineering Profession
    Firelord - Race Type/Spells given to Mages and Warlocks.
    Goblin Alchemist - Class Not in Game one spell given to the Alchemist Profession

    ----

    Shadow Hunter
    Demon Hunter
    Warden
    Dark Ranger
    Goblin Tinker
    Goblin Alchemist

    These are the Only hero classes left that they could consider. You can merge a couple of them together.

    Shadow Hunter, Demon Hunter, Warden, and Dark Ranger could be merged thank to Diablo 3.
    Tinker/Alchemist could be merged as well.

    So really We have two possible Hero Classes left:

    Demon Hunter (melee spec: Warden, Caster Spec: Shadow Hunter, Range Spec: Ranger)
    'Tinker' (Range: Bomber, Melee: Saw, Healer: Potions)

    Only one really works within the frame work of itemization currently in game, but who knows.
    Really nice post and I love the suggested Demon hunter & Tinkerer specs.

  5. #185
    My take would be that Spirit/Hit conversion will be removed as it leads to a sub-par itemization - spirit items are less valuable and hybrid casters can use all int items while pures have no interest in spirit. Iirc GC even said he himself dislikes that conversion. Expertise might go away too.

    Blizz also should stop adding dps/tank/healer hybrid classes - those don't promote healing and tanking roles to people really, just add new specs to play as for players who only like these roles. I think it's best to add a pure dps class with various dps types - archer/caster/melee - that type of thing.

    While not imperative, the addition of a class capable of using mail, int plate or ranged weapon is good for game's itemization. What can be done is adding a petless caster-archer hybrid that's using int mail or int and agi mail in different specs. Meanwhile a way to convert armor can be introduced for this new class and Holy paladins. They could permanently convert agi bows/xbows/guns into int weapons and str plate into int plate.

    As for a new class, the best addition would be caster-archer hybrid in my opinion. Lots of melees have already been introduced with new classes and not a single caster/ranged dps. Also the only archer-type class utilizing ranged weapons is a hunter, To be unique the new class can combine these two playstyles - have some non-instant spells and instant magic-imbued shots. Petless to distance from hunters, using mainly Arcane and Shadow magic school as there's currently no such combination and Arcane is used only by 1 spec of 1 class.

    If not a Dark Ranger/Demon Hunter type class, I'd vote for a Battlemage - one spec melee-ranged hybrid, another - ranged. The mere idea of some kind of Blinkstrike ability seems really cool!

    Tinker on the other hand is a type of class I'd like to avoid. I highly dislike technology-based characters in a fantasy setting. We already have gnomes, goblins and engineering to fill this niche, that's enough for me.
    Last edited by Nightfall; 2013-05-11 at 09:32 AM.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Uennie View Post
    No they are not. Warlocks have their very own set of skills that Mages don't even come close to. Mages can also do things that Warlocks will never be able to do. Just because both use a form of fire doesn't mean they're the same.
    What makes you think Dark Rangers won't have their own skillset?

    Superficially they will be similar to Hunters, but that's it.

    That said, as I mentioned before I doubt we will see new classes anytime soon. The game is quite "crowded" already.

    Dark Rangers will overlap with Hunters.
    Demon Hunters will overlap with Warlocks - although this situation is of Blizzard's own making; when they gave signature DH abilities to Warlocks for no reason.
    Tinkerers will overlap with the Engineering profession.
    Alchemist will overlap with the Alchemy profession.

    IMHO Warlocks overlapping so much with Mages is the source of their problems. Mages are very well defined in the fantasy genre, so Blizzard can't make overly drastic changes to the class. This leaves Warlocks with whatever gimmicks Blizzard can think up. However that didn't work out very well, so Blizzard back-peddled to the wizard-archetype in order to keep the class viable, resulting in Warlocks ended up a lot like Mages and lacking a unique identity.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 11:41 AM ----------

    On second thought, there might be a way to "add" all of these classes that players want and fix a few problems with the game in the process.

    4th spec.

    Just merge Dark Rangers with Hunters as a spec.

    Warlock -> Mage spec
    Demon Hunter -> Rogue spec (or just outright replace the Rogue class with Demon Hunters incorperating popular aspects of the Rogue class)

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Demon Hunters will overlap with Warlocks - although this situation is of Blizzard's own making; when they gave signature DH abilities to Warlocks for no reason.
    You know, I see this comment a lot, and it sort of puzzles me. Demon hunters had four abilities in WC3. To bring them up to WoW's standard, Blizzard will have to create up to 100 active and passive abilities and effects. That's a whole lot of room for them to create new, definitive elements for a demon hunter.

  8. #188
    Stood in the Fire Von Bosch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amorise View Post
    Diablo 3 Demon Hunters and WC Demon Hunters are entirely different, despite the same name. This is what people can't seem to grasp.

    A Demon Hunter in the Warcraft universe is a light armored melee fighter using deception and demonic energy to dispatch foes. Iconic skills are Evasion (heightened senses allow them to "slow" time around them and dodge abilities,) Mana Burn which allowed them to destroy the magic in an enemy, and their ultimate of Metamorphosis where they temporarily become demons themselves and activate Immolation which ignited the air around them. They didn't use ranged weapons.

    The Diablo 3 Demon Hunter is close to that of the Warcraft Dark Ranger in both abilities and aesthetics. The primary difference being the Dark Ranger has some skill in necromancy.

    You can't just cross the two together and go on your merry way. It wouldn't make any sense at all and would water down the lore and concept of the Demon Hunter. Demon Hunters are an awesome idea for a new class, however Blizzard has already in the past given their iconic skills to other classes. Demonology Warlocks currently possess the ultimate and most iconic abilities of the Demon Hunter; Metamorphosis and Immolation. Meanwhile, Rogues possess Evasion and Priests were given Mana Burn (now removed entirely from the game.) I think we'll see Demon Hunters have more of an impact on the story in the future, but it's unlikely for them to me made into a playable class because of that. The class would lose a lot of its uniqueness in playstyle due to current class design and would feel more like an amalgamation and less of a new unique awesome class.

    This is why I believe it's more likely to be a Tinker or Dark Ranger. Both could use ranged weapons. Both could Intellect Mail and/or Agility Mail. Dark Rangers could even use Agility Daggers. This would fix a lot of the loot itemization issues Ghostcrawler rants about wanting to fix every time it's brought up. Tinkers have some basis in the Warcraft universe, while Dark Rangers already exist in decent numbers on the side of the Horde (Troll Shadow Hunters and Forsaken Dark Rangers have some overlap.) Both are classes that could be built entirely from the ground up and have no creative limitations like the Demon Hunter would. Blizzard admitted during the Death Knight and Monk creation that when they build a new class, one of the things they look for is something they can build that's unique, awesome, and has no creative limits or overlap. Demon Hunters simply don't fit this bill from a design view.

    Tinkers: Machinists using a plethora of different technologies to take down foes. Could even have alchemy related skills like poison sprays and such. Could be made as a tank, melee DPS, ranged DPS, or healer.

    Dark Ranger: Marksman using shadow magic, necromancy, and even skilled melee combatants when needed. Could be given necromancy/soul magic and disease/shadow empowered ammunition for ranged combat and shadow manipulation for melee based combat. Could emcompass a variety of different and unique damage dealing playstyles.

    Both of those options give Blizzard a way to fix itemization concerns while both having much more in terms of creative power and leeway for the developers.
    I know very well they arent the same but they can be combined maybe? i mean blizzard made death Knights practicly the same way , they had necromance runemancer and the dk itself id believe and than they combined them .... why cant the same be applied with crossover franchises? lore? dont make me laugh there have been far worser retcons.....

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    You know, I see this comment a lot, and it sort of puzzles me. Demon hunters had four abilities in WC3. To bring them up to WoW's standard, Blizzard will have to create up to 100 active and passive abilities and effects. That's a whole lot of room for them to create new, definitive elements for a demon hunter.
    But it seems kind of dumb that they will be missing their existing signature abilities ...

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    But it seems kind of dumb that they will be missing their existing signature abilities ...
    Who says they'd be missing them?

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Poochy View Post
    Who says they'd be missing them?
    So 2 classes having the exact same abilities? 2 classes running around in demon form?

  12. #192
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    I disagree that there's a pattern three here. I think we can divide classes into 3 categories.

    1. Vanilla. They're based on WC3 units/heroes, and were there from the start.

    2. Stage-one Classes. Also based on WC3 units/heroes (DK = DK, Monk = Brewmaster). Added later and will bring every gear type to 3 users.

    3. Stage-two Classes. These are classes mostly added on cool factor or because players want them. This is where we'd see stuff like Tinkerer and Bard.


    The next new class will be a mail user, I'm certain. I also agree it'll likely have access to ranged weapons. My guess is Demon Hunter. It'll have a melee DPS spec, tanking spec, and ranged DPS spec. Guess which one will grant access to ranged weapons.
    Demon Hunters are melee in every instance they've occurred in WoW though.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    So 2 classes having the exact same abilities? 2 classes running around in demon form?
    Sure, why not? While they might be thematically similar, I'm sure the mechanics behind the abilities would be wildly different.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    Sure, why not? While they might be thematically similar, I'm sure the mechanics behind the abilities would be wildly different.
    Demonology's Demonic Fury system would basically be the foundation for a Demon Hunter's Metamorphosis; building up demonic power while in combat and consuming it to transform and unlock new abilities. Use GoSac on a Demonology Warlock and go into melee range for Touch of Chaos and suddenly you are a Demon Hunter.

    I highly doubt they're going to give the Metamorphosis system to another class, at which point you don't even have a Demon Hunter. I also doubt they're going to suddenly strip a Demonology Warlock's identity from them.

  15. #195
    Stood in the Fire themightysven's Avatar
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    I would like a Int mail-wearing Pilot class, you just get the 6 vehicle buttons, but as a pilot you can adjust what vehicles can do (your personal one, and the vehicles you use in quests/raids)
    you can adjust your controls to be either melee or ranged, and to be in accord with your gear (like if you've got a lot of crit you can use abilities that like crit over haste) or to fill in gaps (if you have tonnes of parry, click this button for a dodge buff on a short cooldown)
    Dps spec: Shredder
    Tank spec: Steam Tank
    Heal spec: some kind of fix-it-bot? like pet based healing maybe.
    Ewok Sith Lords are all about Agility

  16. #196
    Come to think of it, if we were really following patterns.. Wouldn't the next class be implemented in the next-next expansion? New classes skipped a generation in the past.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Amorise View Post
    Demonology's Demonic Fury system would basically be the foundation for a Demon Hunter's Metamorphosis; building up demonic power while in combat and consuming it to transform and unlock new abilities. Use GoSac on a Demonology Warlock and go into melee range for Touch of Chaos and suddenly you are a Demon Hunter.

    I highly doubt they're going to give the Metamorphosis system to another class, at which point you don't even have a Demon Hunter. I also doubt they're going to suddenly strip a Demonology Warlock's identity from them.
    Why would a DH have to have demonic fury to have a demon form? It could be a straight CD, like it used to be for locks. Or tie it to some sort of proc, basically making it an elaborate enrage. There's plenty of room for blizzard to work something different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Come to think of it, if we were really following patterns.. Wouldn't the next class be implemented in the next-next expansion? New classes skipped a generation in the past.
    So did new races, before MoP. Blizz doesn't seem to be overly beholden to patterns from the past.

    And, if you think about, there have been class developments in every expansion. BC gave us alliance shaman and horde paladins. Wrath was DKs, and cata added a whole lot more race/class combos. Not getting something new for classes might break that pattern (that blizzard is not beholden to).

  18. #198
    Before MoP i'd say the possibility of having a DH was high but now not so much. A Demon Hunter class would've needed a evasion/blink tank which is more or less filled by Brew Masters with their stagger (misdirection) mechanic. Plus with how Demo has the Glyph of Demon Hunting, I really doubt that DH will be a possibility.

    What do they need, is a int plate dps class. Spellbreaker, arcane warrior, and perhaps a soul healer.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Amorise View Post
    Demonology's Demonic Fury system would basically be the foundation for a Demon Hunter's Metamorphosis; building up demonic power while in combat and consuming it to transform and unlock new abilities. Use GoSac on a Demonology Warlock and go into melee range for Touch of Chaos and suddenly you are a Demon Hunter.

    I highly doubt they're going to give the Metamorphosis system to another class, at which point you don't even have a Demon Hunter. I also doubt they're going to suddenly strip a Demonology Warlock's identity from them.
    I take issue with Demonology's "identity". Warlocks are suppose to summon and enslave demons, not become one.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 09:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    Sure, why not? While they might be thematically similar, I'm sure the mechanics behind the abilities would be wildly different.
    It will still nonetheless reduce the uniqueness of the two classes. IMHO Warlocks should never have been created, at least not in their current form. They are too similar to Mages.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    I take issue with Demonology's "identity". Warlocks are suppose to summon and enslave demons, not become one.
    Too bad that's not the direction that was taken in the 5.0 Warlock revamp. Demonology Warlocks are too close to Demon Hunters currently and would require Demonology to be rebuilt AGAIN.

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