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  1. #1

    10H Ji-kun advice appreciated

    Hi guys. So we are facing a serious problem on H ji-kun. We don't have enought aoe on nests. Last week we have a ele shaman came over so we didn't have the problem. But this week with our normal group, eggs down like 3 times slower than last week ( for example, last week after eggs and guardians were dead, we still have a couple of sec before quills, but this week, we still can't get back even after next group is going ). Our group is like:

    2 dk tanks (i know ...)
    1 resto druid, 1 resto shaman, 1 MW monk
    2 locks, 1 sv hunter, 1 boomkin, 1 ret pally

    The thing is, I looked at damage on eggs, hunter top so hard ofc, then monk healer doing about half of his damage, then rest dps which is even lower. I know this isn't supposed to be like that, they must be doing things seriously wrong. So my question is, any advice about egg team composition for our groups? And what's class usually good at aoe but our men didn't do it right and I can ask them to learn?

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    The locks and ret should do great on the nests. My raid runs a 2heal comp with no healers going to nests besides 2 and 8 because of quills/guardians.
    Group 1 is Feral/Ret/Lock and they do nests 1,3,4,5,6,7,9,11,12 and they have a tank going on any nest with a guardian (2,4,8,12)
    Group 2 is Lock#2/Resto Sham/Rogue/Tank and they only do nests 2,8,10(top)

    The locks in your group should do great killing eggs as well as the ret. I would need to see logs to say much more but I would recommend 2-healing the fight, its quite simple to do and makes everything much more Fluid. We tried a 3 heal strat with a healer going to every platform but it isn't needed.

  3. #3
    Logs would be helpful, but all your DPS have good multi-target damage. Boomkin should be beating the hunter with 3-5 targets too. Demo lock should be above everyone; Aff not really. Make sure everyone is grabbing blobs too.

    Also, refer to this thread for strat tips.
    Last edited by Squirl; 2013-05-08 at 06:29 AM.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Aeiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonleekungfu View Post
    Hi guys. So we are facing a serious problem on H ji-kun. We don't have enought aoe on nests. Last week we have a ele shaman came over so we didn't have the problem. But this week with our normal group, eggs down like 3 times slower than last week ( for example, last week after eggs and guardians were dead, we still have a couple of sec before quills, but this week, we still can't get back even after next group is going ). Our group is like:

    2 dk tanks (i know ...)
    1 resto druid, 1 resto shaman, 1 MW monk
    2 locks, 1 sv hunter, 1 boomkin, 1 ret pally

    The thing is, I looked at damage on eggs, hunter top so hard ofc, then monk healer doing about half of his damage, then rest dps which is even lower. I know this isn't supposed to be like that, they must be doing things seriously wrong. So my question is, any advice about egg team composition for our groups? And what's class usually good at aoe but our men didn't do it right and I can ask them to learn?

    Thank you!
    Our 2 groups are:

    Hunter, Warrior, Prot Paladin

    Lock, Mage, Boomkin

    Most classes should be fine for this honestly. I think the biggest thing should be making sure you are on the nests on time (before the adds spawn)

    Maybe try having them focus less on actual aoe and more on single targeting some down as well?

  5. #5
    is it later on in the fight that you get behind on adds? or right away?
    also I don't think logs catches the nest dps very well

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeiri View Post
    I think the biggest thing should be making sure you are on the nests on time (before the adds spawn)
    This is incorrect for most nests. You should wait for Feed Young (100%+ damage increase) before going to a nest if you have the feather to spare.

  7. #7
    If your team isn't getting back before the next nest then its a l2p issue.

    If you are attempting a heroic boss (most likely ur second one) then dps should know what to do. All the classes you listed should be more than capable of doing the job on the nests. Ele shammies shine with "lots" of targets, there aren't *lots* of things to hit on the nest. People should read up on rotations for 4ish targets and dps accordingly.

    Any advice without logs is just speculation though.

  8. #8
    Heroic Ji-Kun is just about coordination and making sure that your raid team is actually utilizing the mechanics that you probably without a doubt overlooked on Normal.

    Only a couple of Nests actually have Guardians on them, is it possible for a plate DPS to tank them? Yes, but a tank is better, that cleave does ~200k +Quills, and it could be devastating.

    Make sure that you have 2 fly Groups, each feather you pick up grants 3 charges of flight, but you can hold a maximum of 4.

    Utilize Feed Young, this grants 100% (base) damage for 30 seconds...thats incredible, it can be used to burn the boss faster, as well as blow up nests accordingly.

    For example, in our raid, we have Group 1 (The flight group) Its a Hunter, DPS DK, and a Holy Priest, the 4th spot is an extra, its used for a DPS to grab feed young and nuke the boss, or for a tank to fly to Nest 4 (where the guardian is). Our Group 1 Flies to Nests 1 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 >7 > 9* > 11 > 12. At this point in the fight, no matter what guild you are, you should probably be considering burning the boss to 0% with whatever you have left. As gear increases and damage is higher, mechanics are perfected you'll do fewer nests before you burn the boss.

    Group 2 Which is made up of a Healer, Rogue, Lock, Tank Flies to Nests 2 and 8 only, there is a guardian present. Their goal is to utilize feed young and push the boss lower, faster. As soon as they clean up Nest 2 they wait a couple seconds til after Ji-Kun casts Caw and then fly up so that they can intercept the feed young going to the next active nests with the feather they used to get back to the main platform.

    Group 1 does something similar going from Nest 1 to Nest 3. They delay their flight up (only for a few seconds) til after the Caw is cast and intercept the feed young that is going to Nest 2, they use that 30 seconds to pew pew the boss. When Nest 3 activates Group 1 has 2 charges left, stay on the main platform until feed young casts, fly up grab the Primal Nutrient buff and fly/fall down to Nest 3. You have 100% increased damage to blow up that nest...it'll die significantly faster. Group 1 has to make sure they refresh their buff at Nest 3 so they are up to 4 charges.

    I'm not saying this is how you have to do it, to each their own, but there is going to be something universal that will make this fight easier. You need to have assignments for where people are going and to which nests and make sure they're ready to go there. Make sure you utilize the Primal Nutrient(Feed Young) buff appropriately, Blizz made is way easier to grab the buff, this helps you get Ji-kun down into an execute range significantly faster. Remember even if you are absolutely incredible doing nests...you're going to meet a soft enrage of Feed Young Pools on the main platform, You should be aiming to be in execute range after 2 'cycles' of nests.

    To help you further I've included off the top of my head some of the number 1 issues that caused wipes in our raid:

    Down Draft finishing and Tank is not closest to the boss, so the Talon Rank kills a dps/healer. Paladins have Speed of Light, Rogues have Sprint that negates it. DKs have Death's advance but its not a 70% movement, a bubble from any priest will help them stay on the boss, stampeding roar, even a potion can take care of one(Dark Water Potion).

    Nobody falls off the platforms during down draft, DPS loss, healing loss, etc, be as close to the boss as possible when it starts.

    Cleaves from the Nest Guardian on the main platform. The guardian attacks its closest target if its threat/aggro target is not in range, tanks stand close and face it away from your other buddies on the nest.

    Hunters when on platform (if flying probably not very much) can use aspect of the pack with bonus movement to help everyone negate down draft, just make sure you clear it before Down draft finishes casting, no need to daze your raid.

    Be careful with your dps on the nests, you don't want to absolutely blow up Nest 1 adds before the Nutrients get there, otherwise when Nest 7 activates (same location) the Hatchlings will have Nutrients immediately and it will be nigh impossible to kill them before they evolve/lay eggs.

    Hope that helps.

    EDIT: Forgot about Caw - It has a cast time, it also has a travel time. Anyone on the main platform taking damage from Caw is taking easily avoidable damage. Don't confuse this with Cheep from any Juveniles you have flying above the boss during execute.
    Last edited by Pearsyn; 2013-05-08 at 04:50 PM.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Aeiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    This is incorrect for most nests. You should wait for Feed Young (100%+ damage increase) before going to a nest if you have the feather to spare.

    The thing is, Feed Young is in no way needed to blow up the nests, and saving that feather and jumping off instead lets you have more feed young uptime on the actual boss.

    If they are on H Ji-Kun I would assume they have killed Jinrokh. They should have more than enough dps to kill the adds without relying on the buff by just optimizing the grouping or spell usage.

    The 7th will be the only difficult one if you blow the first platform up too quick. We deal with this with pure single target nuking the 7th platform instead of any aoe.

  10. #10
    You can use a zerg strat for this fight.
    I'd suggest running with 2 healers (makes nests trivial since you're having issues there and makes the burn go quicker)

    Burn Ji-Kun after the 8th nest (benchmark - 40% boss hp by this point)

    After 8th nest is cleared you get down, wait for feed young, everyone grabs it, pop lust, nuke boss, GG.

    With your comp I'd go with something like this for nest assignments.
    G1: Ret, Hunter , Lock
    G2: Lock, Boomie, Tank + whichever healer you have going dps (hybrid can heal the tank - you don't need to bring a dedicated healer .. make sure to use healthstones/personal cooldowns as needed..)

    G1 takes odd nests, G2 takes even nests. The tank only needs to go on 2, 4, and 8. After nest 8, get Primal Nutrients, pop hero+second pot, and burn boss. That's the whole fight.

    You should make good use of the primal nutrient buff like so:
    The way to do this is wait to fly up from bottom nests (yes, just sit there) until there is 2s left til the next nest spawns (nest 1 can fly up immediately and burn another for the buff, but that's the only one). This gives you time to fly up and park above the boss until the blobs shoot out. On the upper nests, wait to fly up until Feed Young goes out, then grab a blob on your way up. G1 will have an extra feather to burn during nests 1-3 and another during nests 5-7. G2 will have to hold one of their feathers during nests 4-6 so they can fly up every time they need to. (I got this tip from another Ji-Kun thread and it worked great for us!)

  11. #11
    You might want to try 2 healing it and having the shaman go elemental. Our resto shaman goes elemental for that fight and off-heals when quills hit and his group is at a nest.

  12. #12
    The biggest thing when learning this fight is determine how you will handle quills. Quills occurs on platforms 2,4,6,8, end of 11. This means you need to either kill the nests quickly and back to main platform before quills, or have heals for the separate groups. Our group has a holy pally for main platform and disc priest for platform quills. Otherwise just have one group do all but 2,8 and 10.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NesQuek View Post
    The biggest thing when learning this fight is determine how you will handle quills. Quills occurs on platforms 2,4,6,8, end of 11. This means you need to either kill the nests quickly and back to main platform before quills, or have heals for the separate groups. Our group has a holy pally for main platform and disc priest for platform quills. Otherwise just have one group do all but 2,8 and 10.
    Killing the nests quickly is much better than wasting a spot for a healer. Even if quills go off while ppl are in the nest they should be using defensive cooldowns/ healthstones and hybrid off heals. People don't have to be topped off - just kept alive so when they return to the main platform the healers can top them off. You need the group with the tank to handle nests 2,4,8 & possibly 12 (if you aren't burning the boss by that point)


    The nests spawn in a set order also if you didn't already know like so:
    1 NE Lower
    2 SE Lower (need to use movement speed boost to drop down to this platform or can undershoot it)
    3 SW Lower (drop down backwards to get onto this platform without overshooting it)
    4 NE Higher
    5 SE Higher
    6 Center Higher
    7 NE Lower
    8 SE Lower (need to use movement speed boost to drop down to this platform or can undershoot it)
    9 SW Lower (drop down backwards to get onto this platform without overshooting it)
    10 NE Higher
    11 SE Higher
    12 Center Higher
    13 NE Lower
    14 SE Lower
    15 SW Lower

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Warlocks should go destro. They can havoc-cleave in the 2-egg nests and FnB AoE the others. Ret can also be very effective due to the burst he can bring.


  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkExileCreel View Post
    The nests spawn in a set order also if you didn't already know like so:
    The way you presented the nest order is a little misleading....one of the most commonly overlooked aspects of the nests is that there are 2 nests that spawn at the same time.

    In general you go through 3 lower nests, 3 upper nests and thats 1 cycle. However the second cycle that happens the 3rd Lower nest, and the 1st Upper nest spawn at the same time. If you were to write it out it would look like:

    Lower Nest = LN
    Upper Nest = UN

    LN1>LN2>LN3>UN1>UN2>UN3>LN1>LN2>LN3 + UN1>UN2>UN3

    If you're counting nests, Nests 9 and 10 spawn at the same time. Normally 10 would have a nest guardian on it, but since there are 2 active nests it does not.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Ele shammies shine with "lots" of targets, there aren't *lots* of things to hit on the nest. People should read up on rotations for 4ish targets and dps accordingly.
    Any advice without logs is just speculation though.
    This is kind of misleading, Elemental Shammies are amazing on this fight, Elementals are arguably on of the best cleave dps on 4-5 mobs you can choose from not to mention with conductivity and chain lightning they are able to heal the bottom nests with ease.

    They are not as strong on the top nests due to less mobs, but a good elemental shaman on this fight saves you a healer spot.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jearle View Post
    This is kind of misleading, Elemental Shammies are amazing on this fight, Elementals are arguably on of the best cleave dps on 4-5 mobs you can choose from not to mention with conductivity and chain lightning they are able to heal the bottom nests with ease.

    They are not as strong on the top nests due to less mobs, but a good elemental shaman on this fight saves you a healer spot.

    I know they shine on the fight, I guess it was aimed at his comment that no elemental shaman means stuff goes down 3x slower. Thats bullshit.

  18. #18
    This fight i think we do overly complicated, but it works

    We have 2.5 Groups for nests (me being the .5, a boomkin for that fight)
    We have this order

    Nest 1 - Tank 1, Group 1 (Ele shaman -or ret pala, depends who is in group- and Hunter) + Healer nr.1 (Disco)
    Nest 2 - Tank 2, Group 2 (Mage, Warrior) And Healer nr.2 (Monk)
    Nest 3 - Group 1 + Me (boomkin) + Healer Nr.1 for feather refresh
    Nest 4 - Group 2 + Me + Tank 1, Stay for HOTW Tranq and Healing through Quills
    Nest 5 - Group 1
    Nest 6 - Group 1 + Healer Nr.1
    Nest 7 - Group 1 + Healer + ME
    Nest 8 - Group 2 + Tank 2 + Healer 2
    Nest 9 - Comes with Nest 10, Nest 9 = Group 1 + Healer Nr.1
    Nest 10 - Group 2 + Me
    Nest 11 - Group 1 + Me
    Nest 12 - Group 1 + Me + Tank 2 + Healer Nr.1 - stay up for quills healing, except Tank 2 who leaves immediately after guardian is downed

    Bloodlust and kill.


    EDIT:

    We usually run this with:

    Guardian
    Blood DK
    Rogue / Warlock
    SMF Warrior
    Boomkin
    Mage
    Hunter
    Ele Shaman / Ret Paladin
    MW Monk
    Disc Priest
    Last edited by Camo; 2013-05-09 at 05:30 PM. Reason: group

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Pearsyn View Post
    The way you presented the nest order is a little misleading....one of the most commonly overlooked aspects of the nests is that there are 2 nests that spawn at the same time.

    In general you go through 3 lower nests, 3 upper nests and thats 1 cycle. However the second cycle that happens the 3rd Lower nest, and the 1st Upper nest spawn at the same time. If you were to write it out it would look like:

    Lower Nest = LN
    Upper Nest = UN

    LN1>LN2>LN3>UN1>UN2>UN3>LN1>LN2>LN3 + UN1>UN2>UN3

    If you're counting nests, Nests 9 and 10 spawn at the same time. Normally 10 would have a nest guardian on it, but since there are 2 active nests it does not.
    If you use the zerg strat (burn after 8th nest) any nest after that is irrelevant - I highly recommend the zerg as it makes the fight much less complicated

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Camo View Post
    This fight i think we do overly complicated, but it works
    That is overly complicated. We've always done G1 odds (3 dps/1 healer), G2 evens (tank/2 dps/1 healer). Grab blobs. Burn after nest 8. Don't die.

    This is a really easy fight, yet I see strats that rival H Dark Animus in complexity all the time. I don't get it...

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