Thread: Armor buff?

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    I'm fine on bats without even having to worry about T&C. Plus we still have typhoon and UV. Trolls are worse obviously. But even still it's not as bad as you're making it sound.
    I'd have to agree, it's really not as bad as it seems. At this point, I think of T&C as a niche "active mitigation" ability that we have, since SD and FR are supposed to be the main ones. For bats on Tortos and trolls on Horridon, SD and FR will do the job completely without the need of T&C. Still, that doesn't mean I completely ignore a T&C proc on those encounters with those specific tanking jobs. On Tortos I'd just apply T&C to Tortos whenever I get a chance to help out my tanking partner, and on Horridon I'll still use it on adds for extra DPS and survivability (and eventually on Horridon, as I'm a full-time adds tank since I control them the best /flex!).

    I don't want to completely derail this thread, so I'll come back to armor. Unlike T&C, armor is universally helpful on all encounters for all tanking jobs you may have, which is why it's the prime candidate for a fast Guardian adjustment (plus, maxmizing T&C use is really gear/skill dependent, adjusting it now to improve Guardians this current tier would likely not help the majority of the population and/or take too long to implement).
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  2. #22
    (plus, maxmizing T&C use is really gear/skill dependent, adjusting it now to improve Guardians this current tier would likely not help the majority of the population and/or take too long to implement).
    I totally agree. The fact it might be the best decision doesn't necessarily make it the most important one to make right now.

    Something will happen to it though.

  3. #23
    I don't want to turn this into a Tooth and Claw debate. I just mention this because I think the main problems with druid tanking caused by our active mitigation (mostly the way Savage Defense works and to a lesser extent, Tooth and Claw) and encounter design, and I don't think this fix is the one that's needed. Sure it's fast and easy, but it's also just short of useless. This may give us an additional 2% physical damage reduction. As you both said, we're good enough on bats, troll doors, and large groups of mobs which is where this change is going to be most beneficial. Our major problem is getting wrecked from the single, huge hits when the dodge gods aren't in our favor. A 1-2% reduction is going to be all but irrelevant in those situations. I'm not expecting any sort of overhaul to the way things work in 5.3, but it certainly needs to be done before the next raiding tier because the gap between tanks has been widening through this entire expansion.

  4. #24
    Our major problem is getting wrecked from the single, huge hits when the dodge gods aren't in our favor. A 1-2% reduction is going to be all but irrelevant in those situations.
    If you stack Crit instead of Mastery sure. Then again if you stack Mastery and Stamina in 25m you wouldn't be having as much of a problem in the first place.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    If you stack Crit instead of Mastery sure. Then again if you stack Mastery and Stamina in 25m you wouldn't be having as much of a problem in the first place.
    Exactly my point as to why this buff isn't much of a buff at all. It doesn't fix the parts that are broken.

  6. #26
    Exactly my point as to why this buff isn't much of a buff at all. It doesn't fix the parts that are broken.
    It makes them easier to handle, and makes your 2nd way of increasing EH better. However there's a difference between being "ineffective" and "only being relevant to 25H".

  7. #27
    I suppose we'll have to wait for implementation to see the effects of ~1% physical damage reduction (on abilities that are physical damage and don't ignore armor), but I think it's a safe bet to guess that it is going to be largely ineffective. If this change brings druids in line with the top tanks for 25H, I'll eat my hat

    Anyway, here's to hoping for more significant changes and better encounter design in 5.4.

  8. #28
    TBH i was hoping for a stamina buff more than an armor buff, it'd be a great weak to fix our weakness, it would prevent situations to get out of hand when we spike and take those big tank-killer hits better.

  9. #29
    I suppose we'll have to wait for implementation to see the effects of ~1% physical damage reduction (on abilities that are physical damage and don't ignore armor), but I think it's a safe bet to guess that it is going to be largely ineffective. If this change brings druids in line with the top tanks for 25H, I'll eat my hat
    Think of it this way instead:

    You now need 25% less Mastery to meet whatever threshold you were going for previously. That means you can spend those stats in other places (like Haste or Crit) which you couldn't previously do.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Think of it this way instead:

    You now need 25% less Mastery to meet whatever threshold you were going for previously. That means you can spend those stats in other places (like Haste or Crit) which you couldn't previously do.
    I do see that as a benefit. I feel like our mastery is still only going to be attractive until we have enough... but now we can have enough faster. As you have said elsewhere, our mastery sucks. It does nothing to change how we play or how our rotation (so to speak) flows. That is why I love crit and haste. I notice a difference in how I play based on getting more of those. Mastery is just not as interesting. I feel like that is a failure on Blizzard's part.

  11. #31
    Pandaren Monk Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerfme View Post
    I notice a difference in how I play based on getting more of those. Mastery is just not as interesting. I feel like that is a failure on Blizzard's part.
    That's true for all tanks, and nearly all class/spec. Mastery don't have to change your rotation to be "good".

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    That's true for all tanks, and nearly all class/spec. Mastery don't have to change your rotation to be "good".
    I think the point he was trying to make is that Mastery doesn't (directly) improve our AM abilities like it does for every other tank. Therefore it's hard to justify going after when it's almost purely a TDR stat except for isolated encounters.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Of those, Snapping Bite and Impale are the only ones the Mastery buff will not help against. We're meant to be able to soak the damage and immediately recover from it, not reduce/avoid it entirely. This buff will certainly help with that in 25m, it just means you can't stack as much Crit in 25m. 10m isn't really a problem so the buff doesn't mean anything there.
    You can dodge the snapping bites though. Granted it's not gonna work every time and makes you extremely spiky when you don't, but out of about 6 snapping bites in a row that I paid attention to, I dodged the first 4 with savage defense up while eating the last 2. Made my health more spiky but useful on heroic since it won't always eat your shield.

    (I used to kite bats so I never got to interact with the snapping bite mechanic, but now we're on heroic I tank Tortos while my DK ot kites.)

  14. #34
    Mastery is still our crummiest stat even with this change because it doesn't effect the value of mastery, it just bumps up the initial bonus for Nature's Guardian. I take whatever comes naturally on the gear I have, and reforge the rest into more valuable stats - like anything other than mastery (I can't speak for 25H). The bonus that this supplies is practically negligible. As in, it might make up for replacing the Austere meta with Capacitive or Indomitable legendary metas.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Scubascythe View Post
    You can dodge the snapping bites though. Granted it's not gonna work every time and makes you extremely spiky when you don't, but out of about 6 snapping bites in a row that I paid attention to, I dodged the first 4 with savage defense up while eating the last 2. Made my health more spiky but useful on heroic since it won't always eat your shield.

    (I used to kite bats so I never got to interact with the snapping bite mechanic, but now we're on heroic I tank Tortos while my DK ot kites.)
    thing is with heroic tortos, in 25m, bite hits you for 900k and 10m its 700k, a big difference. Druids will get 1shot if they dont have a cd/a shield up whereas other tanks can stay up with their active mitigation moves.

    Anddd on 25man heroic tortos youre supposed to kite the bats.. at least thats what we do :>

  16. #36
    thing is with heroic tortos, in 25m, bite hits you for 900k and 10m its 700k
    Before Thick Hide and Weakened Blows, but yes.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhu View Post
    Mastery is still our crummiest stat even with this change because it doesn't effect the value of mastery, it just bumps up the initial bonus for Nature's Guardian. I take whatever comes naturally on the gear I have, and reforge the rest into more valuable stats - like anything other than mastery (I can't speak for 25H). The bonus that this supplies is practically negligible. As in, it might make up for replacing the Austere meta with Capacitive or Indomitable legendary metas.
    Im pretty certain that this changes the scaling of mastery for Guardian. It is possible that they bumped the base amount of mastery, but I think its a 25% buff to guardian mastery all around (If you had 20% extra armor before, you have 25% extra armor after.)
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  18. #38
    Passive mastery bonus now:12%
    Passive mastery bonus after 5.3 is live: 16%

    No changes in scaling. How is it that you are pretty certain that blizzard decided to change scaling of a stat mid-expansion?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirri View Post
    Passive mastery bonus now:12%
    Passive mastery bonus after 5.3 is live: 16%

    No changes in scaling. How is it that you are pretty certain that blizzard decided to change scaling of a stat mid-expansion?
    Because they've already done that once this expansion, to that very stat.
    And guess what it read last time such a change was datamined?

    Mastery: Nature's Guardian now increases your armor by 12%, up from 10%.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...TR-Build-16408
    And that involved a scaling increase.

  20. #40
    I dont get it, its a buff that lets us take less physical dmg doenst matter if 10 or 25m.

    And didnt they change mastery scaling with 5.1 or 5.2?

    Just be happy we got something. And pls dont always take one boss as an example especially not one where boss and adds have unique abilities. We are not that far behind, in 25m you need more HP and mastery than in 10m, so it will help us in 25m.

    The buff is totaly fine wasnt even expecting one.

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