View Poll Results: What should be done with Every Man for Himself?

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  • Leave EMFH alone!!11!

    111 40.96%
  • Scrap it and start over.

    102 37.64%
  • Gief me free trinket slot!

    37 13.65%
  • Reworked/Changed

    59 21.77%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    What part of:



    Did you not understand?

    Why have the CC removal trinket in the game at all? Most gear slots for PvP have 1 choice, but trinkets we get multiple choices, but are then forced into taking the CC break every season. Wouldn't the game be more interesting if you got to have some more choice in PVP gear, which making EMFH baseline on all classes would accomplish.

    Human is a better design, since you get to make more decisions.
    which part of giving up the advantage of a unique and useful racial for a borderline useless one while every race gets it baseline didn't you understand?

    that would just re-work the imbalance unless you changed every other racial in the game. and changing every other racial in the game because you're butt hurt the system that has been in place for years is not 'fair' enough for you, is weak.

    trying to reference perception like you're an old hen when it's bogus, buggy and barely useful doesn't add anything to idea.

    some racials [and this goes for everyone who cries about this on here every few weeks] are better for pvp, get over it.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-05-10 at 02:22 AM.

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    The devs aren't stupid.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    Currently, judging purely by representation above 2.2 (where people play class for racial), the best to worst racials stand like this:

    EMFH (32.3%)
    WotF (18.5%)
    Orc Fury (13.2%)
    Belf Silence (7.7%)
    Shadowmeld (7%)
    Warstomp (6.6%)
    Berserking (3.7%)
    Stoneform (2.7%)
    Draenei Heal (2.2%)
    Panda Blind (2%)
    Worgen Sprint (1.7%)
    Rocket Jump (1.4%)
    Root Break (1.1%)

    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-0-0-0.html


    I'd hardly say Shadowmeld is worthless. Apart from the Shaman population being forced to play Stoneform, it's Alliances only other used racial. Druid is the only class which is forced to take it.
    I hope that you are not really trying to sell this to us as how "good" a racial is. First of all you'd have to divide the whole thing between Horde and Alliance since the Alliance does not get to choose the Horde races and thus their races and the Horde doesn't get access to Alliance racials.

    Overall from your data the population would be 47%/51.1% which puts both factions fairly close and makes me wonder where the missing percentages went. But seeing how your source is wow graphs a site which has proven unreliable and at times giving conflicting data we can just ignore it.

    Seeing as how about both factions are about equal one should ask themselves whether the huge dominance of humans in the Alliance is being caused by the human racial being overpowered or more likely the only viable choice for ANY class that can play a human. The second is more likely since your data puts the Horde overall at a slight advantage. So the better distribution on Horde side is likely caused by a wider range of viable racials and different ones being desirable by different classes.

    In fact in the Alliance certain racials such as Shadowmeld, Stoneform and Draenei Heal are solely boosted by the fact that most of these players will play a class that simply can't be human. So completly useless abilities such as shadow meld get artificialy boosted by the fact that for the longest time druids were the only class on Alliance side that could be druids and even nowadays are only challenged by worgen with equal if not more so useless racials for druids.

  3. #63
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    In fact in the Alliance certain racials such as Shadowmeld, Stoneform and Draenei Heal are solely boosted by the fact that most of these players will play a class that simply can't be human. So completly useless abilities such as shadow meld get artificialy boosted by the fact that for the longest time druids were the only class on Alliance side that could be druids and even nowadays are only challenged by worgen with equal if not more so useless racials for druids.
    Not only that, but Alliance players have the choice to be Night Elves - which are the prettiest race of them all (followed by Space Goats). Horde players chose to be ugly, so being Undead isn't a question of vanity - it's just "would you like to be better at PvP?" Going human extols a terrible cost on the vanity of Alliance players, that isn't true of horde.

    It's also much more pronounced the higher rating you go, above 2600 it's like.. all Undead and Human, you only play other races if you are forced to by class.
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  4. #64
    Brewmaster Eugenik's Avatar
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    New pvp Trinkets have stats on them now too....not like it used to be. If anything its made EMFH less good. Also lets think about it for a second. Burst from trinkets is from the "on use" ones, very controlled. If I didnt have EMFH Id buy the PvP trinket and the "on use" trinket not the "chance on hit"... While the CoH trinket adds to burst its not very controlled and its up time with the on use isnt very consistent.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  5. #65
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    which part of giving up the advantage of a unique and useful racial for a borderline useless one while every race gets it baseline didn't you understand?

    that would just re-work the imbalance unless you changed every other racial in the game. and changing every other racial in the game because you're butt hurt the system that has been in place for years is not 'fair' enough for you, is weak.

    trying to reference perception like you're an old hen when it's bogus, buggy and barely useful doesn't add anything to idea.

    some racials [and this goes for everyone who cries about this on here every few weeks] are better for pvp, get over it.
    WAAAAH I DONT WANT TO SHARE WAAHHHH I WANT TO BE SPECIAL < how you come off.

    EMFH baseline would improve PvP all around by giving almost everyone more choice in their gearing. Humans would then get a new Racial, I mentioned perception because it was a human racial, and I liked it. Getting a rogue or druid out of stealth before the opener was great. They could think up something else, maybe a wotf type thing for poly/sap/hex.

    But you just like humans being overpowered and dont want it changed.
    You, you'll regret what you have done this day, I will make you regret ever being born, you're going to wish you never left your mother's womb, where it was warm and safe and wet, I am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you're going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainbow!
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  6. #66
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    New pvp Trinkets have stats on them now too....not like it used to be. If anything its made EMFH less good. Also lets think about it for a second. Burst from trinkets is from the "on use" ones, very controlled. If I didnt have EMFH Id buy the PvP trinket and the "on use" trinket not the "chance on hit"... While the CoH trinket adds to burst its not very controlled and its up time with the on use isnt very consistent.
    Thugcleave used Shado-Pan Assault trinket + On-use trinket as human. The comp was premised pretty much entirely around getting either a kill, or all cooldowns out of the opener. Shado-Pan would pretty much always proc immediately on combat, then would be stacked with the on-use trinket as human - resulting in excessively higher burst even for thugcleave this season.
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  7. #67
    Brewmaster Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Thugcleave used Shado-Pan Assault trinket + On-use trinket as human. The comp was premised pretty much entirely around getting either a kill, or all cooldowns out of the opener. Shado-Pan would pretty much always proc immediately on combat, then would be stacked with the on-use trinket as human - resulting in excessively higher burst even for thugcleave this season.
    Well that's a design flaw, in making PvE trinkes more attractive and more effective than PvP trinkets, and really doesnt have much to do with EMFH. If EMFH didnt exist Shadon-Pan trinkets would still be used in conjunction with the PvP trinket..

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 04:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    WAAAAH I DONT WANT TO SHARE WAAHHHH I WANT TO BE SPECIAL < how you come off.

    EMFH baseline would improve PvP all around by giving almost everyone more choice in their gearing. Humans would then get a new Racial, I mentioned perception because it was a human racial, and I liked it. Getting a rogue or druid out of stealth before the opener was great. They could think up something else, maybe a wotf type thing for poly/sap/hex.

    But you just like humans being overpowered and dont want it changed.
    Not a terrible idea to baseline it and give humans something in place. Old perception was fun but it wouldnt be a worthy replacement of EMFH in my honest opinion.
    Last edited by Eugenik; 2013-05-10 at 04:47 AM.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  8. #68
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Well that's a design flaw, in making PvE trinkes more attractive and more effective than PvP trinkets, and really doesnt have much to do with EMFH.
    It's a design flaw, and in the case of the shado-pan trinket it does have to do with PvE trinkets in PvP - but it always works with the proc + on-use pvp trinkets for any comp where burst is not a ramp-up, but can be used whenever it's most effective (such as RMP). Removing PvE trinkets from PvP just means thugcleave will continue to do it albeit with the proc+ on-use PvP trinkets: it doesn't really change the issue, just the size of the proc.

    Not a terrible idea to baseline it and give humans something in place.
    It's the only way forward I think. Trinket racials are too damned strong to be unique by race: it's like getting an extra trinket slot as a racial.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-05-10 at 05:19 AM.
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  9. #69
    The time was many expansions ago. Blizzard either needs to balance or (more likely) remove racials - GC has said himself that if the game were made from scratch they wouldn't exist. But people have had them so long and gotten so attached that changing such a small part of the game isn't worth it considering the QQ it would generate, I think.

    Personally I would like them gone and at the same time, gathering professions given stat perks equivalent to crafting professions (or just remove the whole system).

    Actually, I would not only remove racials, I'd make the PVP trinket a baseline skill for all classes and remove the trinkets entirely. It's just an awkward way to give everyone a CC breaker that results in wasting a slot.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    Definitely disagree that racials should go. The majority of players pick the race they like regardless anyway so punishing min/maxers (very very minimal percentage of players) and further homogenizing the game is just stupid as hell.
    Look at top end arena representation by race and tell me that again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  10. #70
    Bloodsail Admiral Taros's Avatar
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    Must say I'm a little surprised at this sort of thread appearing at a time when Every Man For Himself is weaker than it's ever been (aside from that brief stint where it was a 3 min cd) because the Horde racials are extremely strong right now and also because PvP Control Trinkets have stats on them, like mastery, crit, and spirit - and lots of it!! Sorry man, but Orc, Undead, Troll, and maybe even Blood Elf racials are just better right now.

  11. #71
    Brewmaster Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    it's like getting an extra trinket slot as a racial.
    Thats exactly what it is and what it always has been!
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  12. #72
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    CC break trinket gives about 1.5% pvp power and .75% crit, Proc and On Use give over 5.5% PvP Power, you dont need a pve trinket to have a sizable advantage with EMFH.


    And those arguing the CC break trinket has massive stats on it need to get their eyes checked.
    You, you'll regret what you have done this day, I will make you regret ever being born, you're going to wish you never left your mother's womb, where it was warm and safe and wet, I am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you're going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainbow!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ep65rr-9qjQ Full Pilot Episode! Best thing to come out of Adult Swim!

  13. #73
    Bloodsail Admiral Taros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    CC break trinket gives about 1.5% pvp power and .75% crit, Proc and On Use give over 5.5% PvP Power, you dont need a pve trinket to have a sizable advantage with EMFH.


    And those arguing the CC break trinket has massive stats on it need to get their eyes checked.
    Where are you getting the 1.5% pvp power and .75% crit numbers?? I recently changed my human warlock to an undead warlock and I do more damage from the mastery on the cc trinket than with the pvp power proc trinket. This is just a matter of fact in my experience. I can't think of any scenario except for maybe a mistweaver monk where being a human would offer that much of an advantage atm.

  14. #74
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taros View Post
    Where are you getting the 1.5% pvp power and .75% crit numbers?? I recently changed my human warlock to an undead warlock and I do more damage from the mastery on the cc trinket than with the pvp power proc trinket. This is just a matter of fact in my experience. I can't think of any scenario except for maybe a mistweaver monk where being a human would offer that much of an advantage atm.
    The character Tab. Take off the CC break trinket, PvP power goes down about 1.5%, crit, about .75%. Guess you have an overpowered mastery if that increase beats out 4% pvp power.
    You, you'll regret what you have done this day, I will make you regret ever being born, you're going to wish you never left your mother's womb, where it was warm and safe and wet, I am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you're going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainbow!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ep65rr-9qjQ Full Pilot Episode! Best thing to come out of Adult Swim!

  15. #75
    I'm sorry but I'll keep my goblin rocket jump. Getting out of Smoke Bombs, chasing people behind pillars and leaping towards my healer seems a lot more useful than a default trinket to me :P

  16. #76
    Bloodsail Admiral Taros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    The character Tab. Take off the CC break trinket, PvP power goes down about 1.5%, crit, about .75%. Guess you have an overpowered mastery if that increase beats out 4% pvp power.
    I've gone over the numbers a hundred times. Squeezing out even the smallest advantage is of utmost importance to me. And yes, my mastery is super huge. It's the same way for my Ele sham and for my UH dk. The extra pvp power from two trinkets is definitely nice but it's not as powerful or noticeable as it has been in the past.

  17. #77
    Brewmaster Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    The character Tab. Take off the CC break trinket, PvP power goes down about 1.5%, crit, about .75%. Guess you have an overpowered mastery if that increase beats out 4% pvp power.
    Im assumining he reforged the mastery to crit bringing the overall bonus to 2.25% giving EMFH 1.75 stat bonus increase.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  18. #78
    Bloodsail Admiral Taros's Avatar
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    Not only this but as an Undead I also have Will of the Forsaken and Touch of the Grave. Lol.

  19. #79
    Why ?
    You can get to decent ratings w/o needing it. You can even be top w/o it. If you can't and you feel like you need to, then pay the race/faction change fee, and go ahead.

  20. #80
    So how about we give every race EMFH and remove ALL OTHER racials altogether? Instant balance!

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