1. #2041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post

    The farm isn't really close to the customizable player housing that has indeed proven extremely popular in other MMOs. It's the last feature I've seen praised in other games that Blizzard hasn't remotely touched.

    Theirs lots of stuff the could steal. Dynamic world crap from GW2. Instant adventuring from Rift. Hey look maybe it's not my cup of tea. I guess it's a cup of tea for somebody.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #2042

  3. #2043
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Theirs lots of stuff the could steal. Dynamic world crap from GW2. Instant adventuring from Rift. Hey look maybe it's not my cup of tea. I guess it's a cup of tea for somebody.
    True, true, though the dynamic world events in GW2.....were just scripted looping events with mobs instead of NPCs. I didn't find them that impressive. However, it sounds like Square Enix is stealing the idea and injecting it with some steroids. Rather than just NPCs attack and take an area, they can attack and if not successfully repelled, they can kidnap NPCs and result in a full counter attack raid mission for gathered players.

    Apparently they intend on taking old dungeons after they're not current and putting them into the world rather than instanced as well.

    For the total flop XIV was at launch, their new director has some cool sounding ideas for A Realm Reborn.

    I didn't try Rift at all. I got it for free to download, but haven't played. Is it worth a poke for a look around?
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  4. #2044
    You people. This is how every expansion works, the older the game get's the more extreme the troughs and valleys will be. When an expansion is new everybody comes back and they get record high numbers, after a few months things settle down and those people who just came back for the new content go away.

    As has always happened in the last 3 expansions when every mouth breather with a chip on their shoulder blames their personal problem with WOW for the inevitable decline, you can start making noise when a new expansion actually sees a decline worth noting at the start. This is basically business as usual. This is not evidence that your hatred for CRZ or dailies or whatever the fuck else you hate is killing the game. This is what happens when a game ages but still remains unusually popular.
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  5. #2045
    Normals too annoying to pug, LFR never getting gear, LFR dealing with afkers and idiots, dailies to get coins = required for anyone that takes raiding seriously, not easy to maintain alts unless you're in a guild that does multiple 25 clears. This is mostly why I stopped playing this xpac. I got bored of only playing my main because they royally screwed alts.

  6. #2046
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I didn't try Rift at all. I got it for free to download, but haven't played. Is it worth a poke for a look around?
    It is a good game, I tried on and off a couple of times but never got too far into it, my biggest complaint would be it is like WOW but not WOW if you know what I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    You people. This is how every expansion works, the older the game get's the more extreme the troughs and valleys will be. When an expansion is new everybody comes back and they get record high numbers, after a few months things settle down and those people who just came back for the new content go away.

    As has always happened in the last 3 expansions when every mouth breather with a chip on their shoulder blames their personal problem with WOW for the inevitable decline, you can start making noise when a new expansion actually sees a decline worth noting at the start. This is basically business as usual. This is not evidence that your hatred for CRZ or dailies or whatever the fuck else you hate is killing the game. This is what happens when a game ages but still remains unusually popular.
    There were no record numbers when MOP was released an there will be no record numbers when the next expansion is released.

    MOP saw a decline of around 400k in its first quarter and now a further 1.3 million when does a decline become worth noting?
    Last edited by Pann; 2013-05-10 at 04:58 PM.

  7. #2047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    True, true, though the dynamic world events in GW2.....were just scripted looping events with mobs instead of NPCs. I didn't find them that impressive.

    I didn't try Rift at all. I got it for free to download, but haven't played. Is it worth a poke for a look around?
    Yea you might like it. Give it a try. I found it to grindy but I found mists to grindy as well. Lot's of stuff I liked about it though, classes and talents were neat. I lvld a tempest I think he was called. He was like a plate wearing enhance almost. IA was neat to. Basically it just scales you to whatever lvl and you go adventure your face off. They added player housing to with Rift Dimensions. Rift events are neat to. Really pandaria should have had rift events. It makes sense from a lore perspective and it gives players areason to be out in the world that isn't crappy daily quests.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #2048
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yea you might like it. Give it a try. I found it to grindy but I found mists to grindy as well. Lot's of stuff I liked about it though, classes and talents were neat. I lvld a tempest I think he was called. He was like a plate wearing enhance almost. IA was neat to. Basically it just scales you to whatever lvl and you go adventure your face off. They added player housing to with Rift Dimensions. Rift events are neat to. Really pandaria should have had rift events. It makes sense from a lore perspective and it gives players areason to be out in the world that isn't crappy daily quests.
    I did hear Rift Events were fairly well received. Does sound like it would have fit in MoP with the sha stuff. I might check it out.....after I clear the huge PS3 backlog I've built up. (so ashamed -_-)
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  9. #2049
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I'm not convinced about that whole player created crap. I tried it in rift, their version of it and it was okay. Their Rift dimension. Didn't hold me and to be honest they added alot of stuff like that this expansion. Farms and pet battles and the like.
    Never played rift nor shall I.

    The old UO player housing to this day is miles ahead of most games i've seen. The one in EQ sounded quite similar.

    As for realm types merging first, yeh I would pool RP realms with each other, pve with pve and pvp with pvp. then xrealm them based on that.

  10. #2050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I didn't try Rift at all. I got it for free to download, but haven't played. Is it worth a poke for a look around?
    Everyone should know not to trust what random people say on the internet about games... the only way to be sure is to play a game yourself and make your own mind up.

    I got very good feedback from MMO veterans who played Rift and they told me it was actually very good. Ofc its not perfect but then again nor is Wow...

    Note: ive been playing GW2 for 8 months on a fantastic realm, in a fantastic guild and i think its awesome... maybe thats cos im inlove with WvW which i appreciate is not everyones cup of tea

  11. #2051
    I have to level an alt because I want to skill new professions. That is how dead my server is and its not even close to the worst.

    I would also like to point out that TBC we VERY casual friendly. I was a hardcore raider in Classic and then in TBC I gave that up. The type of people hardcore raiding attracts is just not worth it for me. I did Kara all the time, Grulls twice and ZA most week buts we never cleared it. At the end of TBC doing those raids I was geared enough to walk into Hyjal. Many others where just like me... casual players but good enough to do Hyjal.

    In all of TBC and Wotlk I never felt I was out of things to do. In cata I leveled a second warrior for fun. I can't level another character... 60-80 is mind numbing, followed by 5 levels that are not so bad and then 5 levels do doing the exact same thing I already did.

    WoW has always been casual friendly. If you don't think so then you never played any MMOs before WoW. EQ which was one of the most popular MMOs forced grouping to level on nearly everyone... and it took forever. FFXI was the same way... forced grouping and very slow leveling. If you died in EQ you lost exp and had to go find your body to get your stuff back. FFXI just took a ton of your exp away and made you walk back from whatever city you set your homepoint.

    From vanilla through Cata WoW was very pick you poison kind of a game. MoP changed that. You have to quest a very specific way or you can run the same 4 dungeons over and over and they reward very little exp. Then after level cap you have to do rep grinds to get anythings... a rep grind that is tied to daily quests only.

  12. #2052
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Everyone should know not to trust what random people say on the internet about games... the only way to be sure is to play a game yourself and make your own mind up.

    I got very good feedback from MMO veterans who played Rift and they told me it was actually very good. Ofc its not perfect but then again nor is Wow...

    Note: ive been playing GW2 for 8 months on a fantastic realm, in a fantastic guild and i think its awesome... maybe thats cos im inlove with WvW which i appreciate is not everyones cup of tea
    Well, that's true, but I still like hearing general "yeah it's worth checking out" before hopping into a game. I need more monies so I can game instead of work. Not enough time for all these games! Must game more!!! @_@
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  13. #2053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Well, that's true, but I still like hearing general "yeah it's worth checking out" before hopping into a game. I need more monies so I can game instead of work. Not enough time for all these games! Must game more!!! @_@
    No dude it was good. The quality was excellent. The only problem I have jumping into new mmos is just meeting new folks and getting along. That's really the draw of wow is that you already know people and it's comfortable to just get the band back together right.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #2054
    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    If you died in EQ you lost exp and had to go find your body to get your stuff back. FFXI just took a ton of your exp away and made you walk back from whatever city you set your homepoint.
    Ah memories. In EQ, if you didn't pay attention, you would get your face ripped off. There's some good memories in EQ, but man it was painful at the time.

    From vanilla through Cata WoW was very pick you poison kind of a game. MoP changed that. You have to quest a very specific way or you can run the same 4 dungeons over and over and they reward very little exp. Then after level cap you have to do rep grinds to get anythings... a rep grind that is tied to daily quests only.
    Your exaggerating a bit here.
    Vanilla you didn't pick your poison. You ran 5 man dungeons (the same handful) or you raided. That was pretty much the only options at end game.
    BC you did heroics, raids, or dailies. That was pretty much the only options. If you wanted rep, you ran 1-2 dungeons ad nauseum until you were exalted. Then you ran 1-2 different dungeons ad nauseum. And don't forget you had run those same dungeons dozens of times to get the rep to ENTER a heroic and then ran them endlessly to get your one piece to drop.

    Wrath? Get to 90 and run heroics with a tabard, which you were limited on how many you could run, to get epics. Then start raiding.

    MoP isn't as insanely different from the old expansions as people try to forcefully make it seem. You may hate dailies, but you really didn't NEED them to get into raiding, particularly LFR. I did dailies because I liked doing them for the most part, but I geared up and got into LFR through heroics before I had more than Klaxxi gear from valor.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 05:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    No dude it was good. The quality was excellent. The only problem I have jumping into new mmos is just meeting new folks and getting along. That's really the draw of wow is that you already know people and it's comfortable to just get the band back together right.
    True dat

    A friend of mine (I addicted him to EQ...I'm a pusher) is liking what he sees in FF XIV, so good chance I'll try it. Another will definitely be interested in EQ if it looks good (and it will be F2P too).

    F2P does help you get friends to try other MMOs with you. But I also think back on my early days of WoW and how many friends I made in WoW before more RL friends started. That's what's missing in WoW now....don't seem to often meet other players on the server. Just one time dungeon, no speaking, and never see 'em again.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2013-05-10 at 05:12 PM.
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  15. #2055
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Well, that's true, but I still like hearing general "yeah it's worth checking out" before hopping into a game. I need more monies so I can game instead of work. Not enough time for all these games! Must game more!!! @_@
    Basically speaking the MMO paid subscription market is dead and only Wow is managing to keep their players paying cash on a monthly basis. In terms of quality other games beat Wow on many aspects of their game, sure they fall short on some points too, but overall playing a good quality alternative to Wow is the way to go imo.

    Elder Scrolls online must be seriously considering going F2P and copying the likes of GW2 in the way they have made their F2P model work. They make enough money to keep releasing content and the quality is still high. Sure, they are not the bazillionaires like Wow but theyre turning healthy profits which bode well for the future of the game.

  16. #2056
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Theirs lots of stuff the could steal. Dynamic world crap from GW2. Instant adventuring from Rift. Hey look maybe it's not my cup of tea. I guess it's a cup of tea for somebody.
    Maybe they could give you some servants, that you can send to do errands for you like mine thorium, it would take them 2 hours and if succesful you get 10 thorium and on a crit you get 20 thorium.
    Yes I know it is like the doff system from star trek online but that mini game is somehow rather fun.

  17. #2057
    An interesting fighting mechanism is what we also need. Nothing fancy, just bring the old tbc heroic system back.
    Grab aggro? Get one shot, Cc mandatory (do you remember chain frost trap?).
    They don't need to be long, just having those two characteristic will make even short runs much much funnier than now, and would also improve the quality in Lfd or even maybe push you to be more social to people and get a friend list going again (don't know about you but I haven't added a single name on my friend list from wotlk).

  18. #2058
    Well I think the only thing to do in wow for a lot of people is to login once a week clear LFR, probably get frustrated at the two times you wipe and then log out until next week. I can see how they hardly justify paying a subscription fee for that.

    The thing that kept me playing wow for a long time has been being in a guild. WoW no longer requires you to interact with anyone you can just be completely silent and run LFR and LFD which is completely different to when you were forced to interact with people in WotLK.

  19. #2059
    "If I would've asked people what they wanted, they'd say faster horses" - Henry Ford

    Blizzard has listened too much to what people want, and they've tried to appease everyone. As a result, the game has turned into a messy middle-ground of every user-type's play-style leaving no user-type satisfied. Blizzard are game developers, their users are not, Blizzard knows how to make games, users don't. Blizzard needs to follow their instincts and start building amazing stuff again without listening to crybabies on the forums, just like they used to do when initially developing vanilla and TBC.

  20. #2060
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    How much more do they need to bleed? I think the problem is they don't recognize that the motivations are almost all the same across the board except for the tiny minority of HC players. Progress their characters in a reasonable fashion. Get reward out of the game. pet battles and brawlers club and all that is good I have no problem with it but trying to fit everybody into something is dumb. It doesn't work like that. It's good to offer those things but people want gear and progression of their characters in an environment that doesn't pressure them to perform or die where they can have a blast playing with other players.
    just randomthoughts -

    1) a lot of the casual-catering mentality, in my view, was likely directly from the then-new ATVI mgmt after the merger. Kotick is quite keen on casual, it was a very successful formula for Activision (he singularly turned the company around), but it translates very questionably in the context of the MMO market.

    2) a lot of the decisions coming out of blizzard about game design and tuning really look like the outside view of an internal political struggle between competing philosophies, as well as some game decisions being made by people who understood the parts of the game they were changing very little if at all. (wsg gy change, I am looking at you)

    3) a perfectly justifiable underlying motivation for the company is to try to keep the revenue decline curve as slow as possible as the game ages, in addition to all of the above.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 05:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Wow..this topic touches a nerve..or rather the loss in subs in such a big amount does. Personally this drop took me by surprise..didn't expect that - considering the game kept a more stable player number in times when Blizzard didn't release new content for 8-10 months (BT, ICC and DS)
    yes, this implies post-final panda patch is gonna be a sub massacre.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 05:48 PM ----------



    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 05:50 PM ----------

    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Boatking View Post
    Remember that WoW became insanely successful before those features you mention were implemented. WoW is not, and has never been, a casual game. It might look casual compared to other MMOs around the time WoW was released, but such a comparison is misleading. It has features attractive to casual players, but its success is due to those things I mentioned previously.

    there is a lot of public data that pretty decisively paints a picture of wow having spiked western subs into western wotlk release, spiked another few months into it, and done nothing but bleed off the next 1.7 years until pre-cat. spike.

    I think you could argue that the early wotlk spike owed as much to the success and enjoyment returning players had in tbc as anything, in addition to the 'new expansion' effect.
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2013-05-10 at 06:00 PM.
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