1.3 million sub drop

[Deleted]

The theme has nothing to do with the issue at hand and is a total non sequitor. Mists could be about large breasted demon slaying vaklyrie and it would still not be casual friendly.

The theme has everything to do with it. Talking pandas and pet battles were designed to grab the attention of "casual" players.

Just imagine the manpower they wasted on pet battles alone.

Pandas give the impression that World of Warcraft isn't all about war. They send a different message, and "casuals" love cuddly pandas.

But like I said, everything was designed to be soloable where interacting with others was unnecessary. That's the definition of "casual".

[Glorious Leader]

The theme has everything to do with it. Talking pandas and pet battles were designed to grab the attention of "casual" players.

Just imagine the manpower they wasted on pet battles alone.

Pandas give the impression that World of Warcraft isn't all about war. They send a different message, and "casuals" love cuddly pandas.

But like I said, everything was designed to be soloable where interacting with others was unnecessary. That's the definition of "casual".

No they weren't. They were created to give players "something to do" but without any actual gear behind them they wre not actually casual friendly because*shock* CASUALS WANT GEAR TO. Those filthy fucking casuals.

The theme has nothing to do with it. It's just a cover dude. It could be about big breasted lesbian barbarians and it wouldn't matter. Mists would still not be casual friendly.

[Faroth]

because they had a hard fucking day at work and they want to progress their character a bit and see those numbers pop
because they want to drink and get some epics at the same time
because they WANT THE REWARD PART OF THEIR BRAIN TO BE FIRING LIKE CRACK ADDICTED MONKEYS
because they want to chill and have fun with their friends

NONE OF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ACHIEVEMENT because they don't care about whatever misguided sense of achievement you get out of a game. Their just looking for a fix. neurology and biology are what you should be looking at.

Then we can agree that LFR is the better design than Wrath raiding with PUGs if they just guarantee loot from every LFR run. It requires no thought, no effort, but you get fat purplez. Everyone will be happy.

The theme has nothing to do with the issue at hand and is a total non sequitor. Mists could be about large breasted demon slaying vaklyrie and it would still not be casual friendly.

Totally agree with GL on this, though. Pet Battles was meant to be a casual friendly addition to the game, it's a mini-game that can be approached with a minimal time investment. Some love it, some hate it, and some don't give a poo.

Pandas, however, have nothing to do with hardcore or casual gameplay.

And I think we already missed the opportunity in Northrend to have large breasted demon slaying valkyries.

The theme has nothing to do with it. It's just a cover dude. It could be about big breasted lesbian barbarians and it wouldn't matter. Mists would still not be casual friendly.

Next expansion title?

[Deleted]

If there were less daily factions but the dailies were harder, longer and much more rewarding, that might have worked. But the rewards would have to be truly epic and made to last to give people an incentive to work for them.

something epic, something that lasts.
I don't know what about special unlockable haircuts, earrings or piercings.
Making your character look epicly fabolous^^

[Glorious Leader]

Then we can agree that LFR is the better design than Wrath raiding with PUGs if they just guarantee loot from every LFR run. It requires no thought, no effort, but you get fat purplez. Everyone will be happy.



Totally agree with GL on this, though. Pet Battles was meant to be a casual friendly addition to the game, it's a mini-game that can be approached with a minimal time investment. Some love it, some hate it, and some don't give a poo.

Pandas, however, have nothing to do with hardcore or casual gameplay.

And I think we already missed the opportunity in Northrend to have large breasted demon slaying valkyries.

For some players yea lfr is a better design. The problem is that lfr is to all encomposing right now and their is nothing offered as an alternative to players who could potentially be lured into something social.

[Deleted]

Casual is casual, not matter how many times you tell it otherwise. Even Blizzard refers to casual as players that play now and then.

But "casuals" want free epics for no effort.

Then you have a complete off-the-track idea of what Warcraft is - a high fantasy lore game - and that Pandaren were one of the most asked playable races.

Do you think that most people even know the difference between high fantasy and medieval fantasy? When people look at WoW they see Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.

Or rather, they used to see that. Now they see colorful cuddly pandas. They send the wrong message to people.

And it's high fantasy with steampunk thrown into the mix by the way if you insist on being pedantic.

[Glorious Leader]

But "casuals" want free epics for no effort.

No it's not NO EFFORT. It's the EFFORT they can afford to and would be willing to invest. For a casual that is a different thign than say for you. The problem is if they do that then hardcore content burning guys (who play 30 hours a week) eat it up and SCREW THEM. So no this expansion is not casual friendly.

[Deleted]

Essentially, playing one character grants every alt everything.

Account wide rep
BoA tier tokens
Valor gear will be cheap as hell
Heroics will take less than 30 minutes, possibly not requiring a tank or healer
LFR will be nerfed so there are no mechanics (because "they take too long")
There will be no RNG, you will be guaranteed enough valor per LFR to buy 1-2 pieces of gear
New characters start at 90

Im actually opposed to this idea... i dont think this brings MMO gaming forward in any way whatsoever.

Im oldschool MMO fan and i am cut from the cloth which believes that playing 1 character is what true MMOs are all about. Alts are a consequence of the game owners trying to give u reasons to spend more time in the game, alts do not in any way add to the MMO fictional universe that the game gives us to play inside.

To frame another way, basically Blizzard have encouraged alt gameplay for the simple and basic reason to encourage its players to stay logged into Wow for longer. A true MMO does not encourage alts, it encourages its players to live and breath one character on their journey through an epic fantasy world...

I am a believer that an MMO should deliver content which focuses on one character to conquer it, make it challenging and in places outright almost impossible to achieve.

For example, when i see players with 10 alts and most of them holding 'Legendary' weapons it makes me weep... its a sign of how easy the game overall has become.

At the end of the day Wow is very far from being an MMO anymore, it is now better classed as an online multiplayer game. Multiplayer games which make all of their classes easily accessible so u can login and within minutes r playing your newly created character at the top end of the game... thats not an MMO.

[Deleted]

No they weren't. They were created to give players "something to do" but without any actual gear behind them they wre not actually casual friendly because*shock* CASUALS WANT GEAR TO. Those filthy fucking casuals.

The theme has nothing to do with it. It's just a cover dude. It could be about big breasted lesbian barbarians and it wouldn't matter. Mists would still not be casual friendly.

Mists was a casual expansion. I don't even know how you can deny it.

Everything is soloable and interacting with other players is unnecessary. You don't even need to make friends or be in a guild anymore where before you did or you didn't see the game.

But that's not "casual" enough for you?

[Glorious Leader]

Mists was a casual expansion. I don't even know how you can deny it.

Everything is soloable and interacting with other players is unnecessary. You don't even need to make friends or be in a guild anymore where before you did or you didn't see the game.

But that's not "casual" enough for you?

Solo content is not by defintion casual content either by difficulty or by time consumption standards. Brawlers guild is solo content. It is not casual content. Dailes are solo content. It is not casual content.

[HeedmySpeed]

because they had a hard fucking day at work and they want to progress their character a bit and see those numbers pop
because they want to drink and get some epics at the same time
because they WANT THE REWARD PART OF THEIR BRAIN TO BE FIRING LIKE CRACK ADDICTED MONKEYS
because they want to chill and have fun with their friends

NONE OF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ACHIEVEMENT because they don't care about whatever misguided sense of achievement you get out of a game. Their just looking for a fix. neurology and biology are what you should be looking at.

If they've had a hard day at work I can think of a hundred other things THAN A GRIND GAME to relax. The thing about "progress" is you feel "accomplished or achievement" at some point during that progress.

You can drink in a normal raid setting no problem, a beer or two.
You want a reward part of your brain to be firing? Why does it have to be epics and raid progression?
Is chilling and having fun exclusive to doing raids? What do you think friends do outside of raiding with each other?
They farm old content or do dailies and bgs.

If you're not out for that 'achievement fix' then stay away from end game raids?
I agree that there isn't enough to do outside of raiding from a PVE perspective but to dumb down raids so you can tell a story to your friend over a boss fight is pointless, a waste of time and affects other players who don't like CHOOSING how "TOUGH" their enemies are.

[Deleted]

Do you think that most people even know the difference between high fantasy and medieval fantasy? When people look at WoW they see Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.

The Burning Crusade was about fel-punk demons and crystal aliens from outer space, on places with MORE colors than Pandaria. Yet it is vastly praised by everyone.

Warcraft is about was, is and always will be about High Fantasy craziness.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 05:16 PM ----------

Mists was a casual expansion. I don't even know how you can deny it.

Everything is soloable and interacting with other players is unnecessary. You don't even need to make friends or be in a guild anymore where before you did or you didn't see the game.

But that's not "casual" enough for you?

Solo isn't casual, it's solo. You can be solo hardcore.

[Pann]

Mists was a casual expansion. I don't even know how you can deny it.

Everything is soloable and interacting with other players is unnecessary. You don't even need to make friends or be in a guild anymore where before you did or you didn't see the game.

But that's not "casual" enough for you?

I think you are confusing sociable with casual MOP is far from casual the amount of time you need to accomplish anything cannot be be described as casual. I now spend more time in queues each week than I spent actually progressing my character in Wrath.

[Deleted]

Solo content is not by defintion casual content either by difficulty or by time consumption standards. Brawlers guild is solo content. It is not casual content. Dailes are solo content. It is not casual content.

Yes it is. You just have a different definition of "casual". Soloable content is casual because you don't need to organize people for it which takes time.

The Burning Crusade was about fel-punk demons and crystal aliens from outer space, on places with MORE colors than Pandaria. Yet it is vastly praised by everyone.

Warcraft is about was, is and always will be about High Fantasy craziness.

Talking pandas do not belong in WoW. They create the impression that WoW is a completely different game. Just because Blizzard merged genres together doesn't mean that one thing isn't more popular than another. People want knights and wizards fighting evil, not fat talking pandas drinking beer and bouncing up and down on the great wall of China.

[Faroth]

Or rather, they used to see that. Now they see colorful cuddly pandas. They send the wrong message to people.

Again...most requested playable race since TBC.

Talking cows are okay? Talking wolves are okay? Talking rats are okay?

Sure, they could have made the pandaren look a little more fierce like Samwise's original art, but they themselves are not out of place.

[Deleted]

Again...most requested playable race since TBC.

Yeah race. No one asked for an entire expansion revolving around them.

[ro9ue]

Mists was a casual expansion. I don't even know how you can deny it.

Everything is soloable and interacting with other players is unnecessary. You don't even need to make friends or be in a guild anymore where before you did or you didn't see the game.

But that's not "casual" enough for you?

I define casual as time invested. I'm a casual and I feel MoP was an expansion for hardcore players only. It was daily focused which means you need to have a schedule to log in every fucking day. No casual player I know does that, that's why I quit. My only way to progress was to get lucky in heroic dungeons on drops and when you're putting in 4-5hrs a week you need RNG to be on your side or you're going no where. The only thing that kept me interested was going back and getting some glaives and old transmog on different classes, since that's all I was really able to do. The end game new 90 content had brick wall after brick wall for us casual players and a lot of us bailed because of it.

[Conscious]

Yeah race. No one asked for an entire expansion revolving around them.

Meh, considering we're moving back to the old world, I think they got that message.

[Deleted]

Yes it is. You just have a different definition of "casual". Soloable content is casual because you don't need to organize people for it which takes time.

There is not "different" definitions of casual. Casual is nothing but about the time one spends doing something.

You can be solo casual or solo hardcore. Like he said, the Brawler's Guild is solo hardcore.

Talking pandas do not belong in WoW. They create the impression that WoW is a completely different game. Just because Blizzard merged genres together doesn't mean that one thing isn't more popular than another. People want knights and wizards fighting evil, not fat talking pandas drinking beer and bouncing up and down on the great wall of China.

So, you ignore the entirety of my first phrase? Good to know.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 05:24 PM ----------

Meh, considering we're moving back to the old world, I think they got that message.

Hardly the reason, we were bound to move back to Kalimdor as soon as we knew that the Siege of Orgrimmar would be the last patch.

[Glorious Leader]

There is not "different" definitions of casual. Casual is nothing but about the time one spends doing something.

You can be solo casual or solo hardcore. Like he said, the Brawler's Guild is solo hardcore.



So, you ignore the entirety of my first phrase? Good to know.[COLOR="red"]

Actually I would argue that their probably isn't a definition of the word casual. Their are aspects of casuals but I mean when you ask the developers what they mean by casual they are always reluctant to define it. But they used it in the stupid investor call. They must have some working definition I guess. I don't know.