1.3 million sub drop

[Glorious Leader]

Forcing to socialize is also wrong. That will do nothing but push players to single players on the countless places they can get them.

I'm not in favor of forcing anyone to do anything. I'm in favor of more social options being presented to players especially raiding options. I think pugs play a huge roll in this and I'd love to see them make a comeback.

[Osmeric]

I want to add a consequence of the ego inflation reward theory:

A large gap in difficulty between normal and heroic raiding -- for example, in ToC -- was a GOOD thing. Why? Because those who could just barely clear ToC normal could lie to themselves about how close they were to being able to do ToC heroic. This sort of comforting lie is the bread and butter of ego inflation.

[melodramocracy]

It was fairly fun but then rather frustrating for some players so I can see why they made their changes. I prefer the new way they do the questing as I dislike leveling in general. So if the quest gives are all there and tell me where to go im all for it. One thing I disliked in vanilla was having to alt tab to thottbot and go WTF am I supposed to go now? as the quest giver said "GO to X place" and you got there and when finding out nothings there checking thottbot only to find out its on the OTHER END OF THE FUCKING ZONE. Oh yes blizzard I have not forgiven you for that.

That's what questing should be all about though. Exploring, and having some things in your journal that might take a while to finish. Leveling is absolutely dreadful because there's zero need to use your head (and really, this has been the case since I started playing). You get told where to go, what to do, and exactly what to kill. No thought process, no risk.

Add LFD on top of that while you quest, and becomes even more of a trainwreck as you get thrown into a dungeon that more often than not has nothing to do with the zone you're currently in.

[Deleted]

No a traditional mmo forces players to commit vasts amount of time to get anything done. That's what makes it traditional. WoW would have died on the table if it was a traditional mmo.

The amount of time players need to complete tasks is totally secondary in MMOs. Yes MMOs consequently end up with tasks taking a long time but theyre first and foremost meant to be a fantasy universe inhabitted by real players who need to work together (and against each other) in order to complete tasks and progress. the amount of time this takes is not what defines an MMO.

Casuals are leaving by and large and it's because the game isn't really casual. See here's where you and I probably havea a disconnect.

Im getting rather annoyed at peoples complete naivity at what Casual and Hardcore gaming actually is...

Firstly Casual and Hardcore are not the only 2 demographics of players who play Wow. Ur not automatically cast into one or the other category. There is a third category which is simply your average Wow player. Casuals and hardcores ARE THE EXTREMES of the spectrum with average Wow players taking up the largest community somewhere in the middle.

Too many idiots who know nothing about gaming demographics are spouting out bullcrap and making the cardinal sin of not understanding what Casual and Hardcore actually is.

When Blizzard announces that they want to appeal more to Casual players what they are saying is that they will develop parts of the game which will allow players to drop in and get instant gaming. Make it easier for them so they dont have to spend/waste weeks and months to finally get to a level they can play Wow properly.

Yes its simplifying parts of Wow and yes its trivialising other parts of Wow.

[Glorious Leader]

The amount of time players need to complete tasks is totally secondary in MMOs. Yes MMOs consequently end up with tasks taking a long time but theyre first and foremost meant to be a fantasy universe inhabitted by real players who need to work together (and against each other) in order to complete tasks and progress. the amount of time this takes is not what defines an MMO.

NO it isn't. That was the heart of what mmos were and it's what made warcraft a MASSIVE success. It was casual friendly because it took less time. Everquest forced you to do 80 man runs.. what happened to everquest again?

[ringpriest]

So they do either 1, or 1?
Because making things casual is what players want.

Casual is a horribly over-used term when talking about WoW players. When you say "casual" do you mean players who have little time, players who have little skill, or players who want ALL the rewards despite lacking skill and/or time?

For that matter, in my long WoW experience, I used to know many "casual" players who weren't interested in gearing, or raiding, or in personally playing the endgame in general. The "casuals" I've known were more interested in leveling, socializing, exploration, questing, and crafting. Leveling is a pathetic joke, and has been for a while. The social part of the game is basically dead; there's no need to actually get to know people to "win". Exploration is still around, somewhat; moreso in MoP than in Cata, I think. Questing is now a skill-less and challenge-less ride on a rail; and no, dailies don't fix that. Crafting is a pale shadow of what it used to be, a renamed, neutered version of the exact same thing for three expansions in a row.

Forcing "casuals" into ez-mode versions of content they never really wanted to play in the first place (raids), while eliminating the content they liked isn't catering to anyone. It just shows how clueless the devs can be about why people actually enjoyed their game.

[Deleted]

yeah, i think content is very good this expac, but i think poeple are just burnt out, its an old game, i think in the next 2years it will drop to around 5-6million and stabalize there.

I left wow on january and i wasn't burnt out at all, just MoP fails. I'm not into dailies content, WoW concept changed dramatically. This game is completely different to what it used to be, so all i can say is burnt out my balls.

What i mean is, PVP sux, PVE is based on dailies, 25 raids like don't exist, Dungeon Heroics don't exist. All core things which kept many people play this game for many many years, now got turned into poo.

I bet 50% of subs nowdays are newbs who starting and temporary this game is awesome for them.

Greg Street short seeing guy, wow destroyer. He thinks he is master in marketing because of China expansion, reckless move dude. You could've stick to real Warcraft, make expansion which have something to do with Warcraft. 1 pandaren unit in Frozen throne lawl, you could have done expansion based on Alchemists or Mechanics LOL.

[Glorious Leader]

When Blizzard announces that they want to appeal more to Casual players what they are saying is that they will develop parts of the game which will allow players to drop in and get instant gaming

but not INSTANT REWARD. The kid playing CoD is playing Cod because his two hours of cod he gets another lvl or weapon out of it. The kid playing wow isn't getting jack shit out of his two hours. That's why mists isn't casual versus actual casual games. Actually you can play cod non casually to. But that's besides the point. Lot's of people play cod hardcore.

[melodramocracy]

what happened to everquest again?

Servers are still up and running is what happened.

[Deleted]

but not INSTANT REWARD. The kid playing CoD is playing Cod because his two hours of cod he gets another lvl or weapon out of it. The kid playing wow isn't getting jack shit out of his two hours. That's why mists isn't casual.

U truly dont make any sense and ur clearly have no idea what 'casual' actually means.

Casual and Hardcore gaming are LIFESTYLES.

Casual players want to just drop into games and kill some time and have fun while they do it and Hardcore gamers want to achieve at the top level of a game and conquer it. These kinds of gamers are LIFESTYLES.

Ur making the mistake of looking at Wow and imposing your blinkered opinion on what is casual about Wow and whats Hardcore about Wow. Whereas u obviously dont know what Casual and Hardcore actually mean.

[Glorious Leader]

Servers are still up and running is what happened.

Now if only every hardcore content burning grind loving regressive tweedle dumb would just head over there the developers could move on and actually make a casual game.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 05:56 PM ----------

U truly dont make any sense and ur clearly have no idea what 'casual' actually means.

Casual and Hardcore gaming are LIFESTYLES.

Casual players want to just drop into games and kill some time and have fun while they do it and Hardcore gamers want to achieve at the top level of a game and conquer it. These kinds of gamers are LIFESTYLES.

Ur making the mistake of looking at Wow and imposing your blinkered opinion on what is casual about Wow and whats Hardcore about Wow. Whereas u obviously dont know what Casual and Hardcore actually mean.

How do they have fun while they do it? THEY GET REWARD OUT OF IT like in CoD when they get prestige or weapons or whatever. You do'nt have any authority over the defintion of casual and I could make the same argument that you've just blinkered you opinion on what is casual about wow and what isn't.

[melodramocracy]

When Blizzard announces that they want to appeal more to Casual players what they are saying is that they will develop parts of the game which will allow players to drop in and get instant gaming. Make it easier for them so they dont have to spend/waste weeks and months to finally get to a level they can play Wow properly.

And the game will wind up seeing sub losses because of it. This game doesn't do any single game element particularly well enough to compete with the countless other and certainly less expensive options out there. The trend towards a single player experience wrapped in a multiplayer lobby (which is what MoP most certainly is for 95% of the content) is going to be a disaster.

[Deleted]

U truly dont make any sense and ur clearly have no idea what 'casual' actually means.

Casual and Hardcore gaming are LIFESTYLES.

Casual players want to just drop into games and kill some time and have fun while they do it and Hardcore gamers want to achieve at the top level of a game and conquer it. These kinds of gamers are LIFESTYLES.

Ur making the mistake of looking at Wow and imposing your blinkered opinion on what is casual about Wow and whats Hardcore about Wow. Whereas u obviously dont know what Casual and Hardcore actually mean.

I was hardcore in the past, now I'm very casual. Yet my lifestyle is exactly the same.

Casual and Hardcore are about the time spent of doing something, nothing else.

[Conscious]

So they do either 1, or 1?
Because making things casual is what players want.

Where are you getting that from exactly?

[Deleted]

You do'nt have any authority over the defintion of casual.

I dont need any authority im using the defintions as used in the gaming industry, which includes Blizzard and Activision.

Do us a favour and look on the internet for definitions and u will see that mine is correct.

[Deleted]

The trend towards a single player experience wrapped in a multiplayer lobby (which is what MoP most certainly is for 95% of the content) is going to be a disaster.

Yet, that trend is happening in the entire gaming industry. Why? Because the former is no longer viable.

[Glorious Leader]

I dont need any authority im using the defintions as used in the gaming industry, which includes Blizzard and Activision.

Do us a favour and look on the internet for definitions and u will see that mine is correct.

I find it hilarious you cite them when even they are reluctant to give it out and have also stated on numerous occasions they don't by and large use.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 06:01 PM ----------

The trend towards a single player experience wrapped in a multiplayer lobby (which is what MoP most certainly is for 95% of the content) is going to be a disaster.

Diablo 2 would like a word. It was one of blizzards most successful and critically acclaimed titles and was basically a single player experience wrapped in a multiplayer lobby. Guess what diablo 2 had? Lots of socialistaion

[melodramocracy]

How do they have fun while they do it? THEY GET REWARD OUT OF IT like in CoD when they get prestige or weapons or whatever.

Pretty stark contrast to older fps where playing the game itself was fun enough to do it for hours on end with essentially no extracurricular reward.

[Virothe]

who cares XD

[Deleted]

I dont need any authority im using the defintions as used in the gaming industry, which includes Blizzard and Activision.

There is no standard definition of "casual gaming", all we have is the dictionary definition of casual.