1. #2301
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    If people want a game with largely medieval fantasy roots, then they are going to get it. Everything else was just added on because it was popular and could blend with the rest. Demons and steampunk can work in WoW because they can be serious.
    So now Game of Thrones is not medieval fantasy? They have China represented there.

  2. #2302
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    because they had a hard fucking day at work and they want to progress their character a bit and see those numbers pop
    because they want to drink and get some epics at the same time
    because they WANT THE REWARD PART OF THEIR BRAIN TO BE FIRING LIKE CRACK ADDICTED MONKEYS
    because they want to chill and have fun with their friends

    NONE OF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ACHIEVEMENT because they don't care about whatever misguided sense of achievement you get out of a game. Their just looking for a fix. neurology and biology are what you should be looking at.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 03:59 PM ----------



    The theme has nothing to do with the issue at hand and is a total non sequitor. Mists could be about large breasted demon slaying valkyrie and it would still not be casual friendly.
    So I guess what you are saying is that most people are inherently lazy and motivated by the quick fix? That they are too stupid too realize when they are being suckered into some bullshit sense of achievement when they have in fact....done fuck all.

    I agree that is the case in many circumstances but I would hope that these sort of people do not drag us all into that cesspool.

  3. #2303
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    So now Game of Thrones is not medieval fantasy? They have China represented there.
    You are arguing semantics for the sake of it. You want to argue that pandas can fit into WoW because WoW is a blend of genres, but sorry, they still don't. They belong in a cartoon.

  4. #2304
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    So I guess what you are saying is that most people are inherently lazy and motivated by the quick fix? That they are too stupid too realize when they are being suckered into some bullshit sense of achievement when they have in fact....done fuck all.

    I agree that is the case in many circumstances but I would hope that these sort of people do not drag us all into that cesspool.
    yeah...no...that's not what he said all at. I would give you 1/10 for comprehension. Let me know if there are specific parts of what he said that you are struggling with.

  5. #2305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    So I guess what you are saying is that most people are inherently lazy and motivated by the quick fix? That they are too stupid too realize when they are being suckered into some bullshit sense of achievement when they have in fact....done fuck all.

    I agree that is the case in many circumstances but I would hope that these sort of people do not drag us all into that cesspool.
    No. What I'm saying is that people work hard all day and when they come home they have little time to invest to get their reward and "fix" out of this game and the game is now asking them to commit to do much more and spend more time to get less reward than they did before. The game is asking them to do more for less and they are by and large saying nope.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #2306
    Merge servers huh?

  7. #2307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    So I guess what you are saying is that most people are inherently lazy and motivated by the quick fix? That they are too stupid too realize when they are being suckered into some bullshit sense of achievement when they have in fact....done fuck all.
    Yes, absolutely. They want to feel special because most of them are not. Sociology 101.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  8. #2308
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    No. What I'm saying is that people work hard all day and when they come home they have little time to invest to get their reward and "fix" out of this game and the game is now asking them to commit to do much more and spend more time to get less reward than they did before. The game is asking them to do more for less and they are by and large saying nope.
    They'd be happier playing a different game.

  9. #2309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Yes, absolutely. They want to feel special because most of them are not. Sociology 101.
    That's one way to look at it to I guess. This game is supposed to be escapism after all. Hadn't considered that to be honest but in the end it's the same result. The game no longer caters to this desire.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #2310
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    So now Game of Thrones is not medieval fantasy? They have China represented there.
    Game of throne maybe but wow isn't "medieval fantasy"...

  11. #2311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    You do know that there are other games right?
    yes and so do they. that's why they are leaving. the goal of the developers will and should be to stop them from leaving and if at all possible to bring some of them back. not sure if either is possible. Optomistic about it. We'll see.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #2312
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    You are arguing semantics for the sake of it. You want to argue that pandas can fit into WoW because WoW is a blend of genres, but sorry, they still don't. They belong in a cartoon.
    They belong wherever they fit and the author decides. Warcraft is such place, a place of high fantasy and anthropomorphic races.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 06:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Game of throne maybe but wow isn't "medieval fantasy"...
    It's Garian that says it is, not me.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 06:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    They'd be happier playing a different game.
    Which is exactly what is happening and the reason of this thread.

  13. #2313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    They'd be happier playing a different game.
    They were happy playing wow before but apparently that was horrible. Filthy casuals. To bad their money doesn't stink like them.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #2314
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Yes, absolutely. They want to feel special because most of them are not. Sociology 101.
    Interesting. When you take Sociology 201 you will further find out the same applies to people that point out that other folks aren't special.

  15. #2315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Interesting. When you take Sociology 201 you will further find out the same applies to people that point out that other folks aren't special.
    And my suspicion is very much that when the game makes others feel special a handful and select group of players all of a sudden start to fell less special. ohhhh children.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #2316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    That's one way to look at it to I guess. This game is supposed to be escapism after all. Hadn't considered that to be honest but in the end it's the same result. The game no longer caters to this desire.
    Video games, especially RPGs, have ALWAYS been about escapism, as it basically implies simulating a different world with different rules and usually assume a role of an uncommon adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Interesting. When you take Sociology 201 you will further find out the same applies to people that point out that other folks aren't special.
    What on Earth are you talking about?

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  17. #2317
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    And my suspicion is very much that when the game makes others feel special a handful and select group of players all of a sudden start to fell less special. ohhhh children.
    Pretty much. "You guys can't feel special! You're not special. I'm special!"

    If only people could just focus on having fun - instead of being specialer than everybody else...what a crazy world that would be.

  18. #2318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    If only people could just focus on having fun - instead of being specialer than everybody else...what a crazy world that would be.
    But people are not like that. Everything has to be compared to what the neighbour (or the buddy etc...) has.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  19. #2319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    But people are not like that. Everything has to be compared to what the neighbour (or the buddy etc...) has.
    I'm not totally convinced that that applies to everybody, least of all the guy who plays for 4 or 5 hours a week and just basically ques up for dungeons and maybe does a daily or two. His exposure to others with gear is pretty minimal. I guess inside the dungeon he sees people. See but that guy isn't interested in making others feel less special, he's just interested in being a badass and looking cool and getting reward.

    I get the principle behind it 100% but i'm not sure it's exactly appropriate for casual players.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #2320
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    That's one way to look at it to I guess. This game is supposed to be escapism after all. HIvadn't considered that to be honest but in the end it's the same result. The game no longer caters to this desire.
    This is another point I've harped on for a while.

    The central value proposition of an MMO, I contend, is to deliver ego inflation in a social context. No one who plays the game is a world-saving hero in real life. Most players have lives that are as unexceptional as they come.

    Anytime the game tells you "no, you actually suck", it's working against this central value proposition. And I don't think the devs understand this. They've added a bunch of things that deflate the ego of the average player:

    -- Armory (you can now see how far behind you are)

    -- Rated PvP (ratings tell you, with depressing exactness, just where you are buried in the pile of mediocrity that is the player population)

    -- Finely sliced levels of PvE difficulty. These are the PvE equivalent of PvP ratings. Your "X out of Y" for the expansion is, in effect, your PvE rating. The more finely they slice it, providing challenge for everyone, the less the game can tell comforting ego-inflating lies about how good people actually are.

    The ego of the top players is properly inflated, but this is a kind of ponzi scheme. That inflation depends on the presence of a large cadre of lesser players who aren't getting the same ego inflation. This isn't sustainable.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

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