1.3 million sub drop

[Hubbl3]

But they routinely appeal to the smallest of these groups. Why in gods name would you do that?

Why do you think that? I ask you, because 8m out of 12m are still playing. Yeah, great losses here but the majority is still playing. And I'm really sure not 100% left because they are casuals and have nothing to do because everything is aimed at the hardcore players. So, why are casuals the main part of WoW's demographics?

That said: I support more ways for casuals to enjoy the game. But I think there is nothing wrong with some challenges, too. Why? Because I like challenges (ToT is awesome). Yes, I'm egoistic.

[Deleted]

If they make the game even more casual it will lose even more players.

If Blizzard make the game more accessible but more social and rewarding at the same time they will lose less players.

Those concepts are one and the same. Casuals are the one that plays more accessible, social and rewarding games.

Do you really want the game to become even more "casual"? Even if that's best for the game is that what you personally want? Are you ok with Blizzard destroying a great game as long as they make money? Really?

If at the end they lose money, then we have no game. Simple as that.

Blizzard is ready to move on from WoW, they pretty much said it with "losing more subs before the year's end".

[Deleted]

Now if only every hardcore content burning grind loving regressive tweedle dumb would just head over there the developers could move on and actually make a casual game.

While I agree with 95% of what you say, you're terribly mistaken here. First generation WoW devs like furor and tigole were the epitome of this demographic. They'd be rotting away under some bridge now without the jobs at Blizzard. Street is smarter but not fundamentally different.

[Glorious Leader]

While I agree with 95% of what you say, you're terribly mistaken here. First generation WoW devs like furor and tigole where the epitome of this demographic. They'd be rotting away under some bridge now without the jobs at Blizzard. Street is smarter but not fundamentally different.

Then they hate all filthy casuals to i guess. Maybe they just are assholes. I don't know.

[HeedmySpeed]

Really, I think it's harder to please the casuals than the hardcores.

Casuals can't or won't do raiding yet the core element of WoW was for coordinated boss slaying.
You give them an "accessible" version of this and they feel unrewarded and bored after an hour of blazing through the instance.

To me it sounds like they have to shell out new instances and skins to keep up with them. You really have to downplay any complexity to gameplay when you're dealing with casuals because that sort of thing is unappealing by definition.

Edit: To be honest, I would have thought PVP would be the perfect thing for casuals to get into but it clearly isn't because of the learning curb to be competent is steep. You really have to take things down to a games like CoD where you have one button to press and the occasional (but optional) grenade or knife.

[Deleted]

How and when did they accept no matter what they do they will lose subs? Where did you read this? I haven't read it? You know this community has alot of fatalism and I hope the developers don't read it. It would be depressing to know even the people who ostensible are your fans and are defending you don't also believe in your ability to grow the game again. What I read suggested they were going to redouble their efforst in the game. I never hear the developers talk about it being to "old" or any of the usual canned crap that get's thrown around here.

Well, when they openly say that the game will have less subs before the end of the year, it's pretty much accepting the fact.

[Glorious Leader]

Why do you think that? I ask you, because 8m out of 12m are still playing. Yeah, great losses here but the majority is still playing. And I'm really sure not 100% left because they are casuals and have nothing to do because everything is aimed at the hardcore players. So, why are casuals the main part of WoW's demographics?

That said: I support more ways for casuals to enjoy the game. But I think there is nothing wrong with some challenges, too. Why? Because I like challenges (ToT is awesome). Yes, I'm egoistic.

Read my sig. Understand. The bleed will not stop so long as they continue to appeal to the vanity of a small group of players. It may not stop at this point either but it has nothing to do with the game being old (which the developers don't even believe).

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 07:06 PM ----------

Well, when they openly say that the game will have less subs before the end of the year, it's pretty much accepting the fact.

No it's not. You know they also said in that release that they were going to work at making the experience better for players coming back and that they were gonna invest even more in the game as well. Simple saying they are going to see more sub losses by the end of the year isn't an acknowledgement to abandon ship. They just read the writing on the wall and their not sure what they did wrong but their not giving up.

[Deleted]

That's not at all what that quote means. It simply means that they are being realistic. Not that they are going to move on from WoW.

Obviously I'm not saying that they will move next week, but they are indeed preparing the move. And it's a normal thing, WoW is not a perpetual thing that will stay on forever. They will, of course, still work on WoW, with more xpacs. But the focus will move to something else.

[Deleted]

Then they hate all filthy casuals to i guess. Maybe they just are assholes. I don't know.

You should know. The tards got their 15 minutes of fame for whining about Everquest becoming too casual. This is the forum-compatible quote of their rant (missing ~25 fucks and the cock-sucking part):

"You have 14 Days. If after that time the Plane is not properly tuned, I am deleting my characters, and cancelling all of my accounts. The rest of my guild will follow suit, as will several other guilds and people that play Everquest.

To be brief, I did not work my ass off, jumping through your idiotic hoops with my friends and guildmates, so I could go to a zone where only groups of 18 could enjoy the content. EVEN if past these initial moronic events I can finally get my entire guild in to raid with me, FUCK YOU GUYS. Seriously, FUCK YOU.

I cannot believe this... right now I'm just so pissed off. I am sitting here in the Plane of Time, and 3/4 of my guild is just sitting around while a group of 18 is repeatedly trying to beat one of the mini ring encounters. Don't you people have ANY FUCKING DECENCY? SMEDLEY WHY DON'T YOU STOP COUNTING YOUR MONEY AND START ISSUING ORDERS?

The tragic irony of creating the ultimate cockblock encounter in the form of the Rathe which requires 80 people to defeat and then to limit encounters in the Plane of Time to 18.

14 Days.... after that this site will change from the most popular EQ fan site on the internet to the most popular World of Warcraft fan site on the internet. I'm done playing ball with you useless fuckers... it's my turn."

[Deleted]

Those concepts are one and the same. Casuals are the one that plays more accessible, social and rewarding games.



If at the end they lose money, then we have no game. Simple as that.

Blizzard is ready to move on from WoW, they pretty much said it with "losing more subs before the year's end".

There are casual players then there are "casual" players. Who are Blizz going to make the game for?

If Blizzard aren't going to do the best they can to update a game that still has millions of subs then we should quit now.

[ironmike666]

guild wars 2 realm are all full and theres no lack of content. the pvp is just awesome, maybe thats why i left WoW 3 months ago.
and guess what... we don't lag in guild wars 2 i have never DC

[Deleted]

No it's not. You know they also said in that release that they were going to work at making the experience better for players coming back and that they were gonna invest even more in the game as well. Simple saying they are going to see more sub losses by the end of the year isn't an acknowledgement to abandon ship. They just read the writing on the wall and their not sure what they did wrong but their not giving up.

You are the one being fatalist and reading "abandoning the ship" from my posts, when I'm not talking anything like that.

[Glorious Leader]

You should know. The tards got their 15 minutes of fame for whining about Everquest becoming too casual. This is the forum-compatible quote of their rant (missing ~25 fucks and the cock-sucking part):

"You have 14 Days. If after that time the Plane is not properly tuned, I am deleting my characters, and cancelling all of my accounts. The rest of my guild will follow suit, as will several other guilds and people that play Everquest.

To be brief, I did not work my ass off, jumping through your idiotic hoops with my friends and guildmates, so I could go to a zone where only groups of 18 could enjoy the content. EVEN if past these initial moronic events I can finally get my entire guild in to raid with me, FUCK YOU GUYS. Seriously, FUCK YOU.

I cannot believe this... right now I'm just so pissed off. I am sitting here in the Plane of Time, and 3/4 of my guild is just sitting around while a group of 18 is repeatedly trying to beat one of the mini ring encounters. Don't you people have ANY FUCKING DECENCY? SMEDLEY WHY DON'T YOU STOP COUNTING YOUR MONEY AND START ISSUING ORDERS?

The tragic irony of creating the ultimate cockblock encounter in the form of the Rathe which requires 80 people to defeat and then to limit encounters in the Plane of Time to 18.

14 Days.... after that this site will change from the most popular EQ fan site on the internet to the most popular World of Warcraft fan site on the internet. I'm done playing ball with you useless fuckers... it's my turn."

WoW. They hired these angry nerds? Wtf...

[Hubbl3]

Read my sig. Understand. The bleed will not stop so long as they continue to appeal to the vanity of a small group of players. It may not stop at this point either but it has nothing to do with the game being old (which the developers don't even believe).

Yeah. So where does the sub increase in BC come from? Why was WoW stagnated during WotLK?

[Glorious Leader]

You are the one being fatalist and reading "abandoning the ship" from my posts, when I'm not talking anything like that.

Sorry how else am I to read "they know they can't do anything about the sub loss" Sounds fairly fatalist to me and it sounds like you have ZERO faith in the developer

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 07:10 PM ----------

Yeah. So where does the sub increase in BC come from? Why was WoW stagnated during WotLK?

It didn't and guess what when you understand the context of mmos and the time it was in you understand WOW WAS VASTLY MORE CASUAL than other mmos on the market and guess what bc... it added more features for FILTHY FILTHY casuals.

Flying mounts, badge gear, heroics with epics you name it. All for those filthy casuals. If you don't like that then chalk it up to south park or it being a fresh game then. WoW succeeded in spite of tbc not because of it and everything people lament about casulization and warcraft STARTED in tbc.

[Snakehead]

You are the one being fatalist and reading "abandoning the ship" from my posts, when I'm not talking anything like that.

The track star reads what he wants to read. It's a psychological disorder called cognitive dissonance.

Oh and don't ever ask for a straight answer or opinion you will get nowhere.

[Deleted]

WoW. They hired these angry nerds? Wtf...

These "angry nerds" are those that created WoW and are working on Titan. Yet, WoW was more casual then any other MMO on the market for years.

It's not a game dev problem.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 08:12 PM ----------

Sorry how else am I to read "they know they can't do anything about the sub loss" Sounds fairly fatalist to me and it sounds like you have ZERO faith in the developer

Again, you are the one reading it. I'm simply stating what Blizzard said and they know their data, not me.

[Glorious Leader]

These "angry nerds" are those that created WoW and are working on Titan. Yet, WoW was more casual then any other MMO on the market for years.

It's not a game dev problem.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 08:12 PM ----------



Again, you are the one reading it. I'm simply stating what Blizzard said and they know their data, not me.

Apparently your a mind reader then because

they finally came out and accepted that no matter what they do, they WILL lose subs

isn't actually said or hinted by them at all but you just know that they know the time is short. God I can't imagine working at a palce like that. gotta have some shitty morale just to get gently into that good night like that.

It's a game dev problem and they think they can do a better job. They even say as much in the report if you actually read the thing. They will not gently into that good night go and they don't think sub numbers are just going to continue to drop. Not if they can do anything about it.

[xStevooo]

Coming back to the game for a bit of lols after a while i can see why theres such a big sub drop, if you're still enjoying it however thats great - power to you

[Deleted]

Apparently your a mind reader then because



isn't actually said or hinted by them at all but you just know that they know. It's a game dev problem and they think they can do a better job. They even say as much in the report if you actually read the thing.

No, you seem to be the mind reader, when you tell me that I'm fatalist for you misreading my post.

And as much a game dev problem might be, it was told by the CEO and COO to the investors. So it has a financial meaning, not a gaming meaning.