1. #3001
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    And yet that data is FAR more accurate than the bullcrap people r inventing to explain why 1.3mill have left.

    My point is that the 'unsubbed' hold the key to why they left and NOT many of the reasons the idiots r picking out of their ass on here.

    Ive unsubbed and i know why, and I know a couple of dozen other people who have unsubbed and i know why they did too. if u go back through the thread there are plenty of comments from the 'unsubbed' and there is a pattern...

    So how would u work out why so many left? What data do u have access to which will give us the accurate answers?

    Cos if u havent then my point stands up, "the only way to work out why people left is to ask them".
    Just because there isn't good data available (which only blizzard has), doesn't mean that your shitty data becomes gold.

    In the absence of good data, you don't use shitty data, you say, "I don't know".

    Also, we could harp on this shit all day long and it doesn't matter one fucking bit. Blizzard bases very little of their changes on what people bitch about. They do pay attention to complaints, but it has very little weight vs their real data.

    So it all comes down to... Blizzard will do what they see fit from their data and we can't do jack shit about it.

    EDIT: So you guys can piss and moan about anything you want. I'm going to go enjoy WoW and what comes... comes.
    Last edited by cabyio; 2013-05-15 at 05:40 PM.

  2. #3002
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    - The PC is no longer King of the Hill. Tablet PC's outsell PC's by a wide margin and -again- sell F2P stuff all over the place.
    - the rise of Facebook games and tablet games ... Without susbscriptions ... Just add to the fray

    There you have it. ALL the above is 10 times more important than a nerve or a boost in 10.000's of tiny detailed game "issues"

    But do go on with sticking your heads into the ass of this game. It is funny to read.
    Let me know if Candy Crush Saga can compete with Titan when it finally comes out.

    WoW still has more than enough subscribers to be highly profitable and the intellectual property is popular enough to justify a compete remake of WoW is necessary. Blizz will almost certainly do that when it becomes easier and cheaper to do.

    I just love how you are making excuses for WoW becoming a mediocre game. You refuse to even consider the possibility that the current state of the game itself might be to blame for the loss of subscribers.

  3. #3003
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Let me know if Candy Crush Saga can compete with Titan when it finally comes out.

    WoW still has more than enough subscribers to be highly profitable and the intellectual property is popular enough to justify a compete remake of WoW is necessary. Blizz will almost certainly do that when it becomes easier and cheaper to do.

    I just love how you are making excuses for WoW becoming a mediocre game. You refuse to even consider the possibility that the current state of the game itself might be to blame for the loss of subscribers.
    I wouldn't take ben bos to seriously. He is in reality a huge blizzard hater and doesn't think they can do better.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #3004
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I wouldn't take ben bos to seriously. He is in reality a huge blizzard hater and doesn't think they can do better.
    I just hate people who refuse to listen to a different point of view. I welcome different points of view even if I disagree with them but not everyone is like that it seems.

    In my *opinion*, WoW can be a lot better. Would that bring subscribers back to the game? In my *opinion* yes it would. But at this stage, WoW really needs a compete remake to remain truly competitive. I believe we will see that in a few years' time when it's easier for Blizz to upgrade the game's graphics (i.e. when average PC tech has improved).

  5. #3005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    I just hate people who refuse to listen to a different point of view. I welcome different points of view even if I disagree with them but not everyone is like that it seems.

    In my *opinion*, WoW can be a lot better. Would that bring subscribers back to the game? In my *opinion* yes it would. But at this stage, WoW really needs a compete remake to remain truly competitive. I believe we will see that in a few years' time when it's easier for Blizz to upgrade the game's graphics (i.e. when average PC tech has improved).
    You and I probably disagree on what they can do better but I think theirs an agreement that fundamentally they can do better. Getting rid of dailies is a huge fucking start...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #3006
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Just because there isn't good data available (which only blizzard has), doesn't mean that your shitty data becomes gold.
    I never said 'it becomes gold', u did.

    I said ITS THE BEST DATA WE HAVE.

    ofc ur welcome to ignore that and spout your own groundless nonsense.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 08:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    if 100 people quit, and 50 of them said it was for pretty much the same reasons, then yes, that is a good sample size.

    the only thing you need to allow for is the variance between "people that quit that still visit MMO-champion" and the rest of the population that quit. so you couldnt extrapolate directly to those reasons being behind 50% of the sub losses, but its a good place to start.
    This.... says the same as my point

  7. #3007
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Just because there isn't good data available (which only blizzard has), doesn't mean that your shitty data becomes gold.

    In the absence of good data, you don't use shitty data, you say, "I don't know".

    Also, we could harp on this shit all day long and it doesn't matter one fucking bit. Blizzard bases very little of their changes on what people bitch about. They do pay attention to complaints, but it has very little weight vs their real data.

    So it all comes down to... Blizzard will do what they see fit from their data and we can't do jack shit about it.

    EDIT: So you guys can piss and moan about anything you want. I'm going to go enjoy WoW and what comes... comes.
    No, but things like WoWProgress, Realmpop, etc. provide good sample sizes, in the hundreds of thousands, if not low millions. So it's definitely fair to use the information, even if only for ballpark estimates.

    Oh and sorry, but Blizzard as of Cataclysm it seems, have based most of their changes based on what people bitch(ed) about. I'm sorry you feel that Blizzard is still the noble company of old, but times have changed man, they're not out to design their own game for the sake of gaming, but rather for the sake of subscriptions and revenue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    the intellectual property is popular enough to justify a compete remake of WoW is necessary. Blizz will almost certainly do that when it becomes easier and cheaper to do.
    The more subs that are lost, the less profitable the game becomes. So if you're going to wait until we're down to a couple million, you're not going to be able to invest that much into it.
    Last edited by Conscious; 2013-05-15 at 08:00 PM.
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  8. #3008
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    You and I probably disagree on what they can do better but I think theirs an agreement that fundamentally they can do better. Getting rid of dailies is a huge fucking start...
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    The more subs that are lost, the less profitable the game becomes. So if you're going to wait until we're down to a couple million, you're not going to be able to invest that much into it.
    Even 2 million subs would be profitable. As time goes by tech and software evolves which allows devs to do things much easier, especially when average graphics take a huge leap.

    It depends how easy it is to do, and in 3-4 years, it will be much easier to simply reboot WoW.

  9. #3009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post


    Even 2 million subs would be profitable. As time goes by tech and software evolves which allows devs to do things much easier, especially when average graphics take a huge leap.

    It depends how easy it is to do, and in 3-4 years, it will be much easier to simply reboot WoW.
    Yeah, but we still won't be talking cutting edge, nor will we be talking subscription based, and you still have to factor in attrition purely based on people not wanting to play the reboot.

    I think Blizzard knows as well as anyone, that you want to preserve your existing player-base (or grow it) as much as possible before transitioning to a new title, or a reboot.
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  10. #3010
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    The more subs that are lost, the less profitable the game becomes. So if you're going to wait until we're down to a couple million, you're not going to be able to invest that much into it.
    EvE is running on 500k subs, and doing a damn fine job. 2 million would be enough to provide sufficient funds to churn out MORE content than WoW is getting at the moment and still be profitable. but it wouldnt be enough to pay bonuses, dividends, Titan, gold plated hookers for the management etc.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  11. #3011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    EvE is running on 500k subs, and doing a damn fine job. 2 million would be enough to provide sufficient funds to churn out MORE content than WoW is getting at the moment and still be profitable. but it wouldnt be enough to pay bonuses, dividends, Titan, gold plated hookers for the management etc.
    How do you figure? EvE is a fundamentally different game. That's apples and oranges, the only thing they really have in common is a subscription and being an MMO..

    Do you think WoW's current infrastructure alone could be supported by 2 million people? And content? And Staff? Frequent updates? Major patches?

    The answer is no, you'll have to literally widdle the game down to a venerable 'mini' version of WoW.
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  12. #3012
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    How do you figure? EvE is a fundamentally different game. That's apples and oranges, the only thing they really have in common is a subscription and being an MMO..

    Do you think WoW's current infrastructure alone could be supported by 2 million people? And content? And Staff? Frequent updates? Major patches?

    The answer is no, you'll have to literally widdle the game down to a venerable 'mini' version of WoW.
    total and utter nonsense. the income WoW generates at the moment is 80% pure profit. they could maintain the same development staff, support staff and infrastructure costs and still make money. but of course they would be able to reduce both support and infrastructure if there were only 2m players, so they could save some.

    i cant believe there are still people believing that all of the income they make from WoW somehow gets spent on WoW. remember, they built the entire original game on the basis of expecting half a million subscribers. would they have done that if they didnt think they could have made money out of those 500k?
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  13. #3013
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Yeah, but we still won't be talking cutting edge, nor will we be talking subscription based, and you still have to factor in attrition purely based on people not wanting to play the reboot.

    I think Blizzard knows as well as anyone, that you want to preserve your existing player-base (or grow it) as much as possible before transitioning to a new title, or a reboot.
    It depends if the intellectual property remains popular. I don't see anything beating Warcraft for a while, especially if Blizz made it darker.

    Warcraft has beautiful art and a universal fantasy setting (meaning it appeals to everyone). The only lore that could really beat it is D&D but no one has made a good D&D MMORPG that can compete with WoW.

  14. #3014
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    So the facts say:-

    1. 1.3million drop in subs as at 31 March 2013. Largest drop in subs ever in Wow history.

    2. Kotick states publicly he is concerned over Wow Subs.

    3. The massive decline in subs is from 3-6months of latest expansion release.

    4. Around 1mill subs lower than the lowest point in Cataclysm.

    And ur trying to tell us all that everythings fine?

    Dude u need to wake up and actually check the facts because your continual attempts to tell us all that everythings fine is becoming hilarious.
    If a majority of the subs were in North America, I think Blizzard would be much more worried. But as it stands, it doesn't appear they are too concerned. At least not to the point where it is "desperation mode". The expansion has been amazing, Burning Legion looks like it will be next. A return to BC is just what the doctor ordered. Might even bring back older players.

  15. #3015
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    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    If a majority of the subs were in North America, I think Blizzard would be much more worried. But as it stands, it doesn't appear they are too concerned. At least not to the point where it is "desperation mode". The expansion has been amazing, Burning Legion looks like it will be next. A return to BC is just what the doctor ordered. Might even bring back older players.
    Like, how has the idea that because they came 'mostly' from China, that it's suddenly A-OKAY to lose a massive amount of subscriptions.
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  16. #3016
    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    If a majority of the subs were in North America, I think Blizzard would be much more worried. But as it stands, it doesn't appear they are too concerned. At least not to the point where it is "desperation mode". The expansion has been amazing, Burning Legion looks like it will be next. A return to BC is just what the doctor ordered. Might even bring back older players.
    How do you know what Blizzard are thinking? The fact that Kotick said they expected subs to continue to decline suggests they are concerned.

  17. #3017
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Like, how has the idea that because they came 'mostly' from China, that it's suddenly A-OKAY to lose a massive amount of subscriptions.
    If the cause was grindiness, there could have been many occasional users in China that decided it just wasn't worth it. Those are the least valuable users of the game anywhere.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  18. #3018
    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    If a majority of the subs were in North America, I think Blizzard would be much more worried. But as it stands, it doesn't appear they are too concerned.
    Even tho Kotick himself said he was concerned?

    Come on guys read the conference call report before making such untrue statements.

    Koticks words >>>>

    "and subscriber declines in our World of Warcraft business all raise concerns"

  19. #3019
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Like, how has the idea that because they came 'mostly' from China, that it's suddenly A-OKAY to lose a massive amount of subscriptions.

    The Asian game market is very different. They don't pay monthly sub fees like we do, and Blizzard only gets a cut of the fees they do pay. They license the game to a company over there to run. It's why they have multiple lockouts, etc. Losing 10-20 players from China is about equal to losing 1 sub in NA or Europe as far as money loss goes. That is why people say it is OK because the losses were mainly in Asia.

  20. #3020
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzzen View Post
    The Asian game market is very different. They don't pay monthly sub fees like we do, and Blizzard only gets a cut of the fees they do pay. They license the game to a company over there to run. It's why they have multiple lockouts, etc. Losing 10-20 players from China is about equal to losing 1 sub in NA or Europe as far as money loss goes. That is why people say it is OK because the losses were mainly in Asia.
    This is what confuses me; how does the model work there? My understanding is the user pays for game time in hour blocks, how does this get classified as a sub? Because a user bought game time that month?

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