1. #3281
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    You are missing the point they are both online games and to a certain extent competition for one and other. One is free to play and spending $2million on a competition their players would like the other is buy to play plus pay to play with dose of cash shop thrown in and is giving their players a mechanical cat quest.
    Really....

    Can you PLEASE stop with the hyperbole.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8264895/

    That is just giving players a "mechanical cat quest."

    New Arena.

    New Battleground.

    New Brawlers Guild Bosses.

    New Scenarios.

    Heroic Scenarios.

    Several QOL changes (loot specialisation is awesome!)

    And this is NOT a major content patch (i.e. no Raid).

    Get over it.
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2013-05-28 at 08:57 AM. Reason: Speeling!

  2. #3282
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    According to many game sites League of Legends is considered an MMO. I remember a few weeks ago reading on IGN and Gamespot that "LoL is currently the most popular/succesful MMO in the west!" But then again game sites are lately also saying that Minecraft and SimCity are MMO games.
    That's why MMO on itself isn't a genre. If where going to compare every game because they happen to be considered MMO ...
    So for instance, you can be happely comparing a MMORPG with a MMOFPS? You don't compare single player FPS games with single player RPG games, either. They are 2 different genres, with 2 different playing styles, which people like to play for different reasons.
    It came far that game sites can't even make the difference anymore, then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    You are missing the point they are both online games and to a certain extent competition for one and other. One is free to play and spending $2million on a competition their players would like the other is buy to play plus pay to play with dose of cash shop thrown in and is giving their players a mechanical cat quest.
    And you're missing the point that the people who like to play WoW, doesn't necessary like to play LoL.
    Last edited by Shengar; 2013-05-28 at 09:03 AM.

  3. #3283
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    Really....

    Can you PLEASE stop with the hyperbole.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8264895/

    That is just giving players a "mechanical cat quest."

    New Arena.

    New Battleground.

    New Brawlers Guild Bosses.

    New Scenarios.

    Heroic Scenarios.

    Several QOL changes (loot specialisation is awesome!)

    And this is NOT a major content patch (i.e. no Raid).

    Get over it.
    I'm sorry did I touch a nerve?

    Even with all the things you have listed the majority of that new content will be consumed with a week or two. I agree that the loot specialisation is good as is the reduced experience needed to level but it is a concern that some of the best features of a new patch are reducing the time needed to be spent on recent content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shengar View Post
    And you're missing the point that the people who like to play WoW, doesn't necessary like to play LoL.
    Where did I say that WOW players do or do not play LOL? The point is WOW charges a lot for what it offers in a market that is increasingly moving towards a free to play model if WOW is to persist with the combining P2P, B2P and F2P models it has to be offering more than its F2P competitors.

  4. #3284
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I'm sorry did I touch a nerve?
    Yes you did, hyperbole and talking total utter bullshit to try and prove your point touches a nerve, sorry about that

    Shall we go back to ICC days then when WoW was at its Peak then?

    When we had one raid (the size of ToT) for 13 months.

    Really this is what you want?

    ToT has been out for 2 months I would MUCH rather have 5.3 than not have anything till SoO.

    And we will be getting SoO in 4 months(ish) and ToT will be out for less that 1/2 the time that ICC was.
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2013-05-28 at 09:41 AM.

  5. #3285
    Quote Originally Posted by Posokhov View Post
    $275 million in 3 months time?

    Man, that's a lot. If only League made a projected $5 million per day like it does. That maths out to roughly $450 million in 3 months.

    Or the $1.5 billion in profits that Mojang made from Minecraft across all platforms last year. That maths out to roughly $375 million in profits in 3 months.

    $450 million + $375 million is not, in fact, less than $275 million.
    And now to add the fact that Warcraft didn't in fact make even close to $275m last quarter at all ...

  6. #3286
    Quote Originally Posted by Posokhov View Post
    Or the $1.5 billion in profits that Mojang made from Minecraft across all platforms last year. That maths out to roughly $375 million in profits in 3 months.
    You do know your comparing SEK to $ right?

    And also it was 1.5 billion SEK Revenue and 324.666 million SEK profit.

    Which is about $48.72 million for the year.

    Nothing to sneeze at but again you really should be careful what you post

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-28 at 10:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Even with all the things you have listed the majority of that new content will be consumed with a week or two.
    I want to pick up on this as well, I am really intrigued what content you want btw.

    New 5 mans, they will be "consumed" first day right?

    Do you really want a new 12 boss raid every 3 months?

    If Blizzard add anything that takes time or any form of grind then there is MASSIVE outpour of QQ.

    What are your ideas about sustainable content?
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2013-05-28 at 09:39 AM. Reason: Speeling!

  7. #3287
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    Yes you did, hyperbole and talking total utter bullshit to try and prove your point touches a nerve.

    Shall we go back to ICC days then when WoW was at its Peak then?

    When we had one raid (the size of ToT) for 13 months.

    Really this is what you want?

    ToT has been out for 2 months I would MUCH rather have 5.3 than not have anything till SoO.

    And we will be getting SoO in 4 months(ish) and ToT will be out for less that 1/2 the time that ICC was.
    You need to calm down.

    The only problem with ICC was that it was out too long, I thought ICC was better than TOT and the three dungeons, that you seem to have forgotten, were superior to scenarios. For someone that is so against bullshit you sure do like exaggeration ICC was released in December 2009 and 4.01 was released 10 months later in October 2010, during that time the Ruby Sanctum was released although many did not bother with it. Also, 3.3 had LFG, another thing that appears to have slipped your mind, which helped breathe life back into dungeons.

    So you are saying that TOT will likely be out for six months? Like Naxx? Or two months longer than Ulduar and TOC? The same as BWD? Or two months longer than Firelands? When compared with other mid expansion patches and not the last one it seems that this is a quite normal time span.

  8. #3288
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    You need to calm down.

    The only problem with ICC was that it was out too long, I thought ICC was better than TOT and the three dungeons, that you seem to have forgotten, were superior to scenarios. For someone that is so against bullshit you sure do like exaggeration ICC was released in December 2009 and 4.01 was released 10 months later in October 2010, during that time the Ruby Sanctum was released although many did not bother with it. Also, 3.3 had LFG, another thing that appears to have slipped your mind, which helped breathe life back into dungeons.

    So you are saying that TOT will likely be out for six months? Like Naxx? Or two months longer than Ulduar and TOC? The same as BWD? Or two months longer than Firelands? When compared with other mid expansion patches and not the last one it seems that this is a quite normal time span.
    OK..

    What has 4.0.1 released date got to do with ICC being out for 13 months?

    There was a 13 month gap between ICC and the Cata raids - fact.

    Your happy to include Ruby Sanctum as content but 5.3 is not?

    Really?

    If my choices are say....

    SoO for 6 months, 4 new scenarios, random other content and maybe another mini patch (who know what 5.5 will be if anything).

    or...

    ICC for 13 months, 3 5 mans.

    You really think that the ICC model will be better for long term sustainability of WoW.

    But yeah it is me that is talking bullshit.

    I also can't belive your brought up Naxx and ToC.

    Can you imagine the tears if Blizzard announced.

    5.4 New Raid BWL Remake!

    or

    5.4 New Raid it has 1 Room and 5 Bosses!
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2013-05-28 at 10:13 AM.

  9. #3289
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    Why doesn't it matter where the subscriptions are from? That's so ignorant to say they don't matter. Are you saying they don't matter because we don't play with them? Sub losses are sub losses.
    Asian subs are worth much less than Western subs. They don't pay $15 per month, they pay by the hour. Despite Asia continuously having the majority of WoW subs, they only account for less than 10% of Blizzard's income.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  10. #3290
    The Patient Monarken's Avatar
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    Holy shit, so many dumbfucks in this thread.

    Why the fuck would you class LOL as a MMO? its a god damn MOBA game, and should not be compared to WoW in any way, shape or form. They have different target audiences.

    WoW dying, blablabla, yes, WoW has been "dying" since WOTLK. And? If you dont like it, dont play it, there are plenty of other F2P mmos out there (LOL, BUT THEY ALL SUX). If you want a fresh MMO, wait for wildstar, it will be great (I think).
    Untill then, could all the LoL players stand in one line and continue walking the mainstream road, plx?

    DONT LIKE? DONT PLAY!

    And honestly, do you people really think that Blizzard, one of the largest if not THE largest game developing studioes in the world will go under any day soon?
    AkA Companiet !
    #Wildstar2013

  11. #3291
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    OK..

    What has 4.0.1 released date got to do with ICC being out for 13 months?

    There was a 13 month gap between ICC and the Cata raids - fact.

    Your happy to include Ruby Sanctum as content but 5.3 is not?

    Really?

    If my choices are say....

    SoO for 6 months, 4 new scenarios, random other content and maybe another mini patch (who know what 5.5 will be if anything).

    or...

    ICC for 13 months, 3 5 mans.

    You really think that the ICC model will be better for long term sustainability of WoW.

    But yeah it is me that is talking bullshit.

    I also can't belive your brought up Naxx and ToC.

    Can you imagine the tears if Blizzard announced.

    5.4 New Raid BWL Remake!

    or

    5.4 New Raid it has 1 Room and 5 Bosses!
    There was not a gap of 13 months between the launch of ICC and the Cata raids, even discounting 4.01 ICC launched in December 2009 Cata in November 2010 this is eleven months.

    I did not say that 5.3 was not content.

    Lets just wait and see what 5.4 brings before declaring it a success shall we?

    I brought up Naxx and TOC to show that the content cycle in mid-expansion has remained pretty constant at around 5-6 months.

  12. #3292
    You really think that the ICC model will be better for long term sustainability of WoW.
    Not the ICC model but the WoTLK model, absolutely!

    I agree ICC was out too long, you cut it off 3 months earlier and it was win/win/win in my book. I dont know all the reasons but there had to be something that got the subs to 12.5 million doesnt there?

  13. #3293
    Immortal True Anarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post
    You really think that the ICC model will be better for long term sustainability of WoW.

    Ghostcrawler actually tweeted that he often felt like the ICC model worked better, that 25m raiding probably should give higher ilvl gear than 10m raiding.
    "Civilized men and bloody giants."

  14. #3294
    Herald of the Titans Duridi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Ghostcrawler actually tweeted that he often felt like the ICC model worked better, that 25m raiding probably should give higher ilvl gear than 10m raiding.
    Well, it was said a while back that they prefer designing 25 man encounters, as it gives them more options when it comes to mechanics. I believe the comment you are refering to goes hand in hand with that. The less players, the more they have to scale down on the mechanics, giving them less room for creativity. As players, we got to see some proof of this when ZA was changed from 10 man to 5 man. A lot of the mechanics had to be tweaked or they would not have worked with so few players.

  15. #3295
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Asian subs are worth much less than Western subs. They don't pay $15 per month, they pay by the hour. Despite Asia continuously having the majority of WoW subs, they only account for less than 10% of Blizzard's income.
    Can you provide a link please? I've been looking for hard data on Blizzard's income from China and Korea and haven't been able to find anything definite...

  16. #3296
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Ghostcrawler actually tweeted that he often felt like the ICC model worked better, that 25m raiding probably should give higher ilvl gear than 10m raiding.
    I'd take this more as evidence that they're dissatisfied with the reaction to the MoP raid design, and are looking around for changes, than that this specific change has been settled on.

    Getting a lot of regretful tweets and comments from the blues on how MoP has turned out. I think they expected some sub loss, but it may be worse than they were thinking it would be.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  17. #3297
    Quote Originally Posted by Antipathy View Post
    Class changes are one component of innovation, and are by no measure the be-all and end-all.

    also, people have unsubbed because Alliance got Shamen. using the Unsub argument is invalid unless you can show that a relevant percentage of people that unsubscribe do so because of class changes.
    Adding shaman as a class to alliance isn't a class change. Also are you forgetting Horde got paladins? bet you did. First off let me explain to you what class change is. Class change is when they make you play your class differently. For example shamans can now move and cast LB. Dk's can no longer use blood as a viable DPS spec. Hunters now only use bows and have a power bar. Those are class changes. And yes people are quitting because of the class changes. I quit in cata because my US 3rd H LK DK that was a blood dps with shadowmourne was unviable dps in cata. I quit then came back to play a shaman. Class changes has always made people quit and will always make them quit. Adding a class to a faction didn't make people quit.

    Also the reason most of my friends the raiders those who put 100s upon 100s of days into this game. They quit because of the way Blizzard handled raiding. 10 man and 25 man should never receive the same ilvl loot and they shouldnt have had shared lockouts. Fuck the fact people said it was too much content. If its too much content for you to do 2 raids a week a 10 and 25 then you aren't a hardcore raider and go and progress in either your 10 or 25 man. They said they were doing it for the casuals but even the casual 25 man players are hurting and quitting. I will never ever ever step foot into a raid again not an LFR not even if I got carried to world first kills for free. I will never step into current tier raid content. Blizzard ruined the enjoyment of it. That is why people quit. The server I played on for 2 years had 1 25 man guild on horde and 1 on alliance in cataclysm. We still progressed faster then anyone but they were getting geared a lot faster because we had to rotate people on fights and gear 15 more people. Because of the lack in ilvl for gear we ultimately lost the server first kill for H rag and gave up.
    Last edited by Kirino; 2013-05-28 at 03:06 PM.

  18. #3298
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Can you provide a link please? I've been looking for hard data on Blizzard's income from China and Korea and haven't been able to find anything definite...
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  19. #3299
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Ghostcrawler actually tweeted that he often felt like the ICC model worked better, that 25m raiding probably should give higher ilvl gear than 10m raiding.
    I normally would come to bat for Ghostcrawler. I don't think he is a bad guy. However recently a lot of things he has said makes me want to call him an idiot, but then I would be wrong as well. The issue is similar to that of the so called Presidential Bubble most American Presidents find themselves inside once in office for a while. With Ghostcrawler this is the Blizzard Bubble. Ghostcrawler is surrounded by developers and is separated from the general player base for the most part.

    The Blizzard Bubble is filled with developers that have been there so long and in a dated system that clearly can’t cope with the challenges the current gaming environment is facing. At least in a timely matter. The gaming demographics once again are changing as well.

    Until all the yes-developers and I use developers in the most vaguest sense possible here, are either replaced or a massive injection of new blood occurs, we should expect much of the same. Those of us outside the Blizzard Bubble can see the problems while those inside do a pat on the back and say everything is awesome will just have to either cancel their sub and go elsewhere or deal with the game. I have leaned towards canceling as I have stated in previous posts because of the realm population issues killing my server, my guild, and driving my friends to quit.
    I have been chosen by the big metal hand in the sky!

  20. #3300
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by majesta View Post
    ...
    The Blizzard Bubble is filled with developers that have been there so long and in a dated system that clearly can’t cope with the challenges the current gaming environment is facing. At least in a timely matter. The gaming demographics once again are changing as well.

    Until all the yes-developers and I use developers in the most vaguest sense possible here, are either replaced or a massive injection of new blood occurs, we should expect much of the same. Those of us outside the Blizzard Bubble can see the problems while those inside do a pat on the back and say everything is awesome will just have to either cancel their sub and go elsewhere or deal with the game. I have leaned towards canceling as I have stated in previous posts because of the realm population issues killing my server, my guild, and driving my friends to quit.
    Oh man..you only need to look beyond WoW to see how wrong you are. What new MMO or what MMO ever competing with WoW could make use of all that you suggested? SW, LotR, Rift, Aion...they all had the chance to crush WoW if they seriously wanted (and I bet they did) if it was so easy as you suggest.

    Other than the "presidental bubble" that you invoke, Blizzard CAN actually monitor what players do 24/7.... At the end of the day, this is the 8 year old game with 8 million subs and...NO...NEW...COMPETITOR..even came close...EVER. And all you self proclaimed prophets have no clue what a contemporary or modern MMO need - if you did, you would make 150 000 dollars or more a year, working for a major game developer.

    Yet you don't.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

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