1. #1021
    Anyway to get this thread back on topic instead of about hero worship...snowfox just posted this on the general forums.

    Well, I've been trying to keep my -personal- beliefs out of the thread, but if it helps things stay constructive I'll give my "remaining three" things I disagree with Blizzard on and think should be changed. You can view them as problems with the game, reasons for sub losses, influencing factors, or just another drop in the bucket... as you prefer. They are:

    1. The disintegration of realm communities due to cross-realm pugging.

    2. The lack of even sandboxed player created content.

    3. The frozen model of Monoguilding instead of Multiguilding.

    1 is relevant because I think people stay as much because of other people, as they do because of content. If you cut those social binds, which lfd/lfr does in a way, people are less likely to remain. If they become "friendless" in a sense on their realm, they have virtually none.

    2 is because people want to create. They -particularly- want to create once they've mastered the game. They want to go from just being a passive participant to being able to influence the world and actually creatively express themselves. That alone would keep people, but the network effects of all that would be created would be a massive spike in content too. Even Valve accepts they can't keep up with what their playerbase creates in terms of volume of content.

    3 is because people have different interests and like to "clump" in different ways. In real life you don't just belong to one club and no others. You can belong to as many as you want. The problems with guild leaders running off, of losing friends when you switch guilds, etc - all that can be avoided with the multiguilding model. It would also let players connect based on interests, not just odd fleeting social moments or progression.

  2. #1022
    At least the news of the massive sub drop took the spotlight off the RMAH fiasco today.

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  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    They watch them for instructional purposes not because they are activelly hero worshipping blood legion. Hell even the guilds that do that are getting smaller and smaller in number. You're a dying breed.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 02:43 AM ----------



    No. I'm saying people who wouldn't normally care about watching blood legion or whoever will have their interest peaked if it's in the name of a good cause. I stand by what I said. Nobody (or next to nobody at any rate) will care if hardcores leave. Except the developers who have catered to them so hard this expansion. There is less actual casual content in this game (in so far as character progression and reward) than ever before. They've made the game a massive grind and made this current raid tier harder than ever and shoved everybody into lfr. It sucks.
    Haha dying breed If you go look up tactic from one guild it doesn't mean you are worshipping them for crying out loud. I personally love videos from VoX.

    If you think that game is now a massive grind you obviously didn't play vanilla or TBC.

  4. #1024
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    1 and 3 are a little bit contradictory don't you think? Like if you stay in one guild beacuse you share interests and presumably like the people you do those things with how is that cutting social binds?

    As for number 2 I think that crap is highly over rated. I did it in rift for a bit it wasn't all that interesting.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #1025
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    It's fun reading this thread and seeing how people try to pin all 1.3 million of the subs on simple things, like the lack of new five man dungeons or the normal mode raid difficulty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Haha dying breed If you go look up tactic from one guild it doesn't mean you are worshipping them for crying out loud. I personally love videos from VoX.

    If you think that game is now a massive grind you obviously didn't play vanilla or TBC.
    I did on both. I'm just sane enough to realize those days are done and going back to that is off the table.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaddriel View Post
    The community.

    Say what you will about the convenience of lfd/lfr/realm transfers but I remember the days when I logged on and was instantly invited to run a dungeon with my friends. Anyone know a good tank/healer/dps? And you'd say yeah, my buddy is a tank let me check. He joins the party and you were cool for knowing a good player.

    All that networking, that community building stuff is gone with all this stupid crz/lfd/lfr bridging dead servers crap.
    Galad nailed one of the main reasons why wow will decline and is on a decline for a couple of years. Instead of a progressive approach, blizzard went down the path of watering down stuff to a point where wow is not even the same mmo it used to be.
    Also, the death of 25man raiding , and the whole 10 and 25 merger, is another factor.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragashii View Post
    1 is relevant because I think people stay as much because of other people, as they do because of content. If you cut those social binds, which lfd/lfr does in a way, people are less likely to remain. If they become "friendless" in a sense on their realm, they have virtually none.
    And that was what Glorious Leader said few pages back. He is mostly in game because of people he plays with. Due to LFD and LFR it's easier for people to quit because they don't create social bonds. (Please don't take that as "LFD/LFR sucks and I want it gone).

  9. #1029
    I'm wondering if MoP is the last expansion that will see 10million+ subs, or if the next one will get an insanely huge bump.

  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    It's fun reading this thread and seeing how people try to pin all 1.3 million of the subs on simple things, like the lack of new five man dungeons or the normal mode raid difficulty.
    More people do 5 mans than anything else as their endgame, and always have. It might not* be the only factor, but it is certainly one of them. What are your ideas to why the game is losing subscribers?

  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I'm wondering if MoP is the last expansion that will see 10million+ subs, or if the next one will get an insanely huge bump.
    I will take a stab in the dark and bet that WoW will never see 10m+ subs again. Just too old of a game, not that it's bad though, by any means.

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  12. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    And that was what Glorious Leader said few pages back. He is mostly in game because of people he plays with. Due to LFD and LFR it's easier for people to quit because they don't create social bonds. (Please don't take that as "LFD/LFR sucks and I want it gone).
    It does and I do lol

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    And that was what Glorious Leader said few pages back. He is mostly in game because of people he plays with. Due to LFD and LFR it's easier for people to quit because they don't create social bonds. (Please don't take that as "LFD/LFR sucks and I want it gone).
    For the record I don't want them gone. I think they have their place and should be kept in game.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    I will take a stab in the dark and bet that WoW will never see 10m+ subs again. Just too old of a game, not that it's bad though, by any means.
    Age really isn't that big of a factor, as I pointed out Mario is still alive and well, and there are many MMOs out there that have been around a long LONG time that still have a ton of subs.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    I will take a stab in the dark and bet that WoW will never see 10m+ subs again. Just too old of a game, not that it's bad though, by any means.
    I thought it would never top 10m again after the Cata drop, now I'm 50/50 about what will happen.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    I will take a stab in the dark and bet that WoW will never see 10m+ subs again. Just too old of a game, not that it's bad though, by any means.
    bliz itself said they expecting sub to continue decreasing. To release such a pessimistic (thus potentially damaging) statement publicly, you can be dam well sure subs are going down this year.

  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragashii View Post
    More people do 5 mans than anything else as their endgame, and always have. It might now be the only factor, but it is certainly one of them. What are your ideas to why the game is losing subscribers?
    That sounds .... terribly boring. Yes I know that raiding isn't much different, but dungeons aren't a challenge, they tend to be pretty boring. But I'm one of those people that feels that if what you're playing isn't at least somewhat challenging then whats the point?

  18. #1038
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Age really isn't that big of a factor, as I pointed out Mario is still alive and well, and there are many MMOs out there that have been around a long LONG time that still have a ton of subs.
    While we probably disagree on many things this is something I whole heartily agree with. Age is not the issue and virtually everyone saying it is is more or less just plugging their ears in denial.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #1039
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    bliz itself said they expecting sub to continue decreasing. To publicly release such a pessimistic (thus potentially damaging) statement publicly, you can be dam well sure subs are going down this year.
    Sub decreases have been a certainty since numbers leveled out in WotLK, the question now is how sharp the decline will be and how high the boosts when an expansion is released.

  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    For the record I don't want them gone. I think they have their place and should be kept in game.
    I agree. But I made many friends in this game while leveling - and you know how? Because a random dude asked me to help him with "insert quest, mob etc". Today you don't have that. And quite a few of that random dudes became friends/guildies/people with who I did stuff in game.

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