1. #1701
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    kotick is probably more worried about not being able to say a big double digit number when talking about wow more than he is for the losses from china.

    no one at blizzard is majorly concerned about the losses in the east and are more focused on how to keep their western subscribers engaged to keep them ingame and subscribed longer.

    as long as the losses continue to be mostly from korea and china blizzard isnt going to go out of their way to worry about them when they have western subscribers that make them so much more money and need to find a way to keep them engaged longer

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 08:09 PM ----------



    for the price of one month of wow in na or eu you can pay for around 6 months of wow over in china, probably even more
    Honestly you have no way to back up any of these statements and by saying things like Kotick is more concerned with double figure sub numbers you are just digging yourself a deeper hole.

  2. #1702
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    except it is mostly fine, the problem isnt players wuitting in the west its keeping players subbed full time instead of taking breaks inbetween patches,

    people in the east are quitting wow for good unlike people in the west which are mostly just taking breaks, which are entirely different problems
    How do you know the Eastern subscribers are quitting for good? I remember hearing their subscription system works differently so I'm not insinuating anything.

    But to say Western subs are fine is kind of wrong. Sure some players may resub later but what kind of numbers are we talking about? We really have no idea. And what about the players that are quitting and about to quit? I think it might just balance itself out more or less.

  3. #1703
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    How do you know the Eastern subscribers are quitting for good? I remember hearing their subscription system works differently so I'm not insinuating anything.

    But to say Western subs are fine is kind of wrong. Sure some players may resub later but what kind of numbers are we talking about? We really have no idea. And what about the players that are quitting and about to quit? I think it might just balance itself out more or less.
    ALOT of chinese players have quit wow and started playing lol and age of wushu its taken a massive hit from wow subscribers in china and have become the new big thing at the cafes in china

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 08:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Honestly you have no way to back up any of these statements and by saying things like Kotick is more concerned with double figure sub numbers you are just digging yourself a deeper hole.
    because thats what chinese subs are mostly about, big numbers, the amount of revenue they bring in is nothing compared to the marketing they provided when wow was able to say "WE HAVE 12 MILLION SUBS"
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  4. #1704
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Is it me, or are there some people who are in denial that WoW is actually a dying game? All the excuses in the world like: "who cares about east subs, numbers in west and EU remain stable" is actually complete bullshit pulled out of their ass.

    Just look at all the low pop realms, and complaints about servers being imbalanced. How does that happen? Oh right, because soo many players are on the realms and they are populated beyond belief.

    Time to face reality: Wow is in decline.
    It isn't just WoW. The entire MMO-genre reached its peak and is on the decline. But when we look back, you can bet everyone will say and should be saying, Blizzard is responsible for jump starting the MMO again and starting a full out MMO wars. Good times. Remember how many games upon release were getting stacked up against the mighty WoW and how people were saying it was a "WoW killer". It was silly, but it was still funny to read everything people would say. All I can say is, what a ride it has been. It's not over yet, by any means, but it certainly looks like unless Blizzards next expansion is nothing short of amazing, the sub levels are going to go down to a more appropriate level. When the dust has settled, we'll have hardcore players left over who will refuse to leave, no matter what. There are probably enough to where there should be a fair amount of subs still.

  5. #1705
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    I will refer u to another statement from Kotick on the Conference Call report>>>

    The shift in release dates of competing products, the disappointing launch of the Wii U™, uncertainties regarding next-generation hardware, and subscriber declines in our World of Warcraft business all raise concerns, as do continued challenges in the global economy. For these reasons, we remain cautious. However, our focused and disciplined approach to our business has served us well in the past, and through continued investment and careful management of our costs, we expect to continue delivering shareholder value over the long term as we have for the last 20 years.”

    Why would Kotick make specific reference that theyre concerned about Wow?

    Hes not mentioned any other Blizzard game, only Wow.

    If they were happy with Western Wow subs he couldve made reference to that here, he didnt. Hes made the sweeping statement that theyre concerned about Wow subs.
    He's making a presentation to shareholders. They don't care if the subs are US or Asian, it's all the same revenue.

    You guys need to remember that this information isn't there to be used in pissing contests on the forums. It's financial information for people who own Blizzard shares.

    And of course he's concerned, what other game can continue to charge $15 a month for over 9 years and still retain over 8 million customers? Obviously Blizzard needs to keep making new games to keep up revenue streams just like every other game studio on the planet. Why does everyone on the forums act like WoW was going to last forever? It's already lasted far longer than any other game I can think of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  6. #1706
    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    It isn't just WoW. The entire MMO-genre reached its peak and is on the decline. But when we look back, you can bet everyone will say and should be saying, Blizzard is responsible for jump starting the MMO again and starting a full out MMO wars. Good times. Remember how many games upon release were getting stacked up against the mighty WoW and how people were saying it was a "WoW killer". It was silly, but it was still funny to read everything people would say. All I can say is, what a ride it has been. It's not over yet, by any means, but it certainly looks like unless Blizzards next expansion is nothing short of amazing, the sub levels are going to go down to a more appropriate level. When the dust has settled, we'll have hardcore players left over who will refuse to leave, no matter what. There are probably enough to where there should be a fair amount of subs still.
    i predict subs will continue to fall till around 6 million where they will stay for a few years and then it will decline again until its population is comparable to that of everquest. it will likely eventually get a sequel either in the form of warcraft 4 or another mmo sometime in the distant future, even if wow hits everquest levels of subs i dont see blizzard ever abandoning the warcraft universe and will keep it alive in the form of books, movies, video games ect ect
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  7. #1707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i predict subs will continue to fall till around 6 million where they will stay for a few years and then it will decline again until its population is comparable to that of everquest. it will likely eventually get a sequel either in the form of warcraft 4 or another mmo sometime in the distant future, even if wow hits everquest levels of subs i dont see blizzard ever abandoning the warcraft universe and will keep it alive in the form of books, movies, video games ect ect
    But according to u subs r fine in the west... so i guess we will lose another 2.3 million subs in China to get to 6million right?

    Your posts truly r hilarious... keep them coming!

    (u also conveniently ignored my last post, obviously u have run out of 'facts')

  8. #1708
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post

    The dailies is a curious debate for me. Obviously players did dailies in droves or they would have been scrapped after TBC, but they were wildly popular. But why were they? Hell, the reputation factions in TBC like Ogri'la offered epics that were lower level than Karazhan and if I recall that faction (with Skyguard) came out after Karazhan was more or less irrelevant content for any other than complete non-raiders.

    Shattered Sun wasn't amazing reward incentives either, but it was pretty popular at the time.

    It just seems hard to be sure what carrot is best on the stick now.
    Man.... Skyguard and netherwing dailies were popular because they had cool mount rewards. Shattered sun was popular because it was an absolute PvP dream and had good profession patterns and misc shit for the pve nubs. None of those daily hubs were forced onto players, it was a choice. Its as simple as that. In wrath though they tried to push it a bit by making shoulder enchants a daily grind but they still allowed rep based head enchants be obtained through dungeons with the tabard. Now that worked, it gave players something to do without being too forceful. Hodir dailies were awesome and always full of ppl for pvp It wAS great until the HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE fk up that was making them BoA. That was the start of the great running in circles in a major cities trend. The way mop dailies are designed is terrible.

    If they were so dead set on this daily bullshit they could have gone about it in many diff ways. Imo i would have liked to see a single, patch upgradeable, hub were u could obtain all the lesser charms u needed each week. Other reputation grinds through dailies should give no charms and have little to no gear upgrades and instead have some cool vanity items and profession patterns and MOST importantly progressively increase the amount of charms u get from the main hub quests until it gets whittled down to a 1 time grind each week for all ur charms. Also scrap any oideas of making this BoA. Every alt should be forced to go through the same ritual. This would have ensured ppl are always in the same areas and PvP can thrive as well. The rest of the dead time afterwards should be filled in with some creativity and a FKING world pvp battle area.

  9. #1709
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    But according to u subs r fine in the west... so i guess we will lose another 2.3 million subs in China to get to 6million right?

    Your posts truly r hilarious... keep them coming!

    (u also conveniently ignored my last post, obviously u have run out of 'facts')
    atleast 30% of wows subs are from china, so yes losing alot more subs from china could easily put them around the 6 mil mark. and i already refuted your argument about kotick. and the massive sub losses have already been explained as being caused by the massive shift in china to lol and age of wushu,
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  10. #1710
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    atleast 30% of wows subs are from china, so yes losing alot more subs from china could easily put them around the 6 mil mark. and i already refuted your argument about kotick. and the massive sub losses have already been explained as being caused by the massive shift in china to lol and age of wushu,
    Ok so Wow subs were at around 12mill and 30% of them are from China...

    Now we are at 8.3mill and we have lost around 4mill subs. thats around 33% right?

    So another drop to 6mill, which is 50% of 12mill, means theyre all from China right?

    Dude... seriously.

    U invented some bullcrap about what Kotick is thinking but i didnt see any reference to what hes actually said... so far i have seen ZERO references to facts from any of your posts.

    (please reply i want to lol some more!)
    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2013-05-10 at 12:48 AM.

  11. #1711
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Ok so Wow subs were at around 12mill and 30% of them are from China...

    Now we are at 8.3mill and we have lost around 4mill subs. thats around 33% right?

    So another drop to 6mill, which is 50% of 12mill, means theyre all from China right?

    Dude... seriously.

    U invented some bullcrap about what Kotick is thinking but i didnt see any reference to what hes said... so far i have seen ZERO references to facts from any of your posts.

    (please reply i want to lol some more!)
    no when we were at 12 million chinese subs were atleast 50%. it would be around 30% now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 08:52 PM ----------

    i find it hilarious that anyone thinks an mmo thats making like over 500% operating costs in revenue is anywhere near in bad condition.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  12. #1712
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    oh yeah because naga stealing all the swamp water for no reason that is never explained or even hinted at is a good storyline, oh yeah illidan all of a sudden going nutsocrayzo and creating a demon army and enslaving a bunch of different races while also only showing up TWICE in his own expansion was good writing, oh yeah instead of having kael'thas be the proud leader of his people they turn him into a twobit crazy pants villain for the sake of a flashy name and not only that but have him become a pawn of the legion, the very thing his people rebelled against and fought a civil war against in the war of the ancients and then after being exiled created the guardians of tirisfall to combat them, oh and retconning sargeras origin story, poofing the draenei out of thin air for the sole reason because chris metzen though it was cool was good writing, completely messing up the orcs history and making them learn shamanism from magic crystal naaru water was completely good writing right? having alleria and turalyon never even show up nor have their son do anything is completely good writing write? having khadgar become neutral and hang out with windchimes while spending the whole expansion being sad about medivh is totally good writing right? having the blood elves join the orcs despite one of their most honored heroes being given the title orc slayer purely for server population reasons is totally good writing right? having the burning legion essentially do nothing the entire expansion but build fel forges is totally good writing right? having teron gorefiend show up with almost no lore and used entirely as a flashy prop is totally good writing right?


    yes because all of that is SO MUCH BETTER than having a character from warcraft 3 actually taking part in quests, acting like himself, and not being used as a flashy prop in a raid, or having characters who previously did nothing at all like jaina actually DOING something, or having the alliance finally having a central leadership again and becoming unified or an actual good storyline in the horde that isnt "thrall talks to some dudes and shows them that orcs are cool guise" or having an IMMENSELY important legendary questline, one that actually foreshadows and has huge implications for what will happen in the future for it instead of "hey guys thars this weapon dat rel good has 000.1% drop chance and liek no lore for you to experiences"


    if we were still in cata and were in the middle of thrall has a dragon wedding and deathwing goes from evil mastermind to RAWR I BE A DRAGAN then yes you would have a point but the lore in mists of pandaria is like the magnum opus of wow compared to the huge shitstorm that was tbc lore and blizzard has admitted fully that they really had no clue wtf they were doing since it was their first expansion and thank god illidan will be back soon and we can act like it never happened, and if kael;thas wasnt a meme you would be damned sure he would be back to

    Illidan and Vashj plotline was a lot better than Chen Stormtout ignoring everythign that happens in the world to make some beer, yes. A lot better.

    Retconing Sargeras origin didnt hurt the story in a single bit, so i dont know why you put it as an example of bad storytelling.

    MoP storyline sucks, and goes into common places of making every panda in the game an alcoholic that want things to go slow. Beer elementals alone show how bad MoP storyline is.

  13. #1713
    Definitive proof that WoW is dying. Everyone sell your characters on ebay before they loose their value!

  14. #1714
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    revenue from subscriptions has gone up, despite losses in china, if there were any substantial losses in na or eu that would not be possible



    Three Months Ended March 31,
    2013 2012

    Net revenues:
    Product sales $ 990 $ 874
    Subscription, licensing and other revenues 1 334 298
    Total net revenues 1,324 1,172
    Revenue has always been up even in Cata, where the decline was in NA, because it isnt from subscription only. So no, try again to find a single clue about NA not losing many subs, even when they said in the very conference that they did.

  15. #1715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Illidan and Vashj plotline was a lot better than Chen Stormtout ignoring everythign that happens in the world to make some beer, yes. A lot better.

    Retconing Sargeras origin didnt hurt the story in a single bit, so i dont know why you put it as an example of bad storytelling.

    MoP storyline sucks, and goes into common places of making every panda in the game an alcoholic that want things to go slow. Beer elementals alone show how bad MoP storyline is.
    I rather liked MoP's storytelling. The Mantid, the Sha, even Lei Shen.

    In fact, I liked all that way more than "Garrosh is corrupt but not gonna be corrupt because MMO orcs are different" BS.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  16. #1716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i find it hilarious that anyone thinks an mmo thats making like over 500% operating costs in revenue is anywhere near in bad condition.
    yeah cos everything is peachy and awesome in Wow right now and all the stats and data shows this...

    Im glad Kotick stating he is concerned about Wow subs right now is only a lie...

    PS please supply the source where u came up with "500% operating costs" please.

  17. #1717
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Illidan and Vashj plotline was a lot better than Chen Stormtout ignoring everythign that happens in the world to make some beer, yes. A lot better.

    Retconing Sargeras origin didnt hurt the story in a single bit, so i dont know why you put it as an example of bad storytelling.

    MoP storyline sucks, and goes into common places of making every panda in the game an alcoholic that want things to go slow. Beer elementals alone show how bad MoP storyline is.
    alementals arent a real thing, they are elementals that are allowed to go in the ale because it gives the ale a unique taste and fizz that cant be obtained through normal brewing.

    illidan and vashj HAD NO DAMN PLOTLINE.

    chen stormstout wasnt ignoring everything that happened in the world he was exploring, thats what he does, im assuming you belive brann bronzebeard is a two bit hobo because instead of fighting in the war he was exploring archaeology sites and ruins huh?

    and yes the retcon of sargeras did ruin something, the original draenei which are now called the broken were relegated from native inhabitants to mutant freaks of godly wind chime worshipers of air poofydom.

    no pandaren "wants things to go slow" they want people tp experience life to the fullest, alot of people say retarded things like "the pandaren hate fighting" or "the pandaren want peace" they dont, they just want to fight for a good reason, they fight ALL THE TIME but they dont fight out of hate or revenge or jealousy because when they do they lose themselves, when they fight they have to fight for a purpose.

    also they arent alcoholics, the dwarves are, most pandaren brew doesnt even truly get you drunk it heightens your senses or imbues you with power, do they occasionally get drunk? yes they helped invent brewfest of course occasionally they do, but brewing isnt all about getting drunk.

    you come off as highly ignorant of the storyline in mists and seem to be completely clueless about nearly everything lore related,


    illidan had no storyline in bc he literally showed up twice, technically 3 times. the first time hes just a voice and claims he killed arthas, the 2nd time he tells and orc hes and idiot, and the third time he just checks up on akama.

    oh god what a wonderful anti hero turned psycho.

    also neither did vashj have a storyline, she had pretty much no lines and did nothing

    HAY GUISE TEH NAGA IS STEALINZ DE WATERZ "why" FOAR TEH LULZ

    there is literally no excuse ever given as to why that happened, why woudl the naga purposefully destroy comfortable living habitat for themselves and their allies? they werent sending the water anywhere they were just shoving it in a big hole, they werent using it for anything, they couldve easily lived in the swamp without all the trouble of drilling a huge hole in the ground and pumping water from throughout a huge area into a big hole in the ground

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 09:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Revenue has always been up even in Cata, where the decline was in NA, because it isnt from subscription only. So no, try again to find a single clue about NA not losing many subs, even when they said in the very conference that they did.
    it was confirmed during the last quarter of cata that the majority of the subs lost throughout cata were from the east. so you are wrong again

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 09:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    yeah cos everything is peachy and awesome in Wow right now and all the stats and data shows this...

    Im glad Kotick stating he is concerned about Wow subs right now is only a lie...

    PS please supply the source where u came up with "500% operating costs" please.
    wow makes billions of dollars a year. the cost of server upkeep and customer support isnt anywhere near as close as they rake in every year i also really wish you would stop twisting my words.
    Last edited by Immitis; 2013-05-10 at 01:13 AM.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  18. #1718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i predict subs will continue to fall till around 6 million
    If they're not already there.
    Looking to refund your Warlords of Draenor purchase? Contact Support chat directly - here.

  19. #1719
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    If they're not already there.
    its possible. i just want demon hunters and i wont care what blizzard does from then on.

    demon hunter class and ill be happy for the rest of wows lifetime
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  20. #1720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    wow makes billions of dollars a year. the cost of server upkeep and customer support isnt anywhere near as close as they rake in every year i also really wish you would stop twisting my words.
    twisting your words?

    U were stupid enough to demand i give u a source of one of my statements on this thread... which i duly did with direct quotations form the conference call. This consequently proved my point was correct... And yet u have posted up invented figures off the top of your head constantly in every one of your garbage posts and cannot provide a single reference to fact to back them up.

    Its people like u who are a problem to discussions like this. Mainly because ur posting up 'facts' created out of your heart and not your head. U need to learn to stand back and properly analyse the data rather than cherrypicking and inventing 'facts' to try to prove what your heart is saying.

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