1. #3021
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikencarly View Post
    Thats not always the case alot of mmos had there fxs increased so much it was pretty much a in game with the same name brand you sir don't know what blizzard is planing all we know they over haul the look of the game in one expansion nobody really knows fyi just because there a part 2 of wow if that ever happens doesn't mean they will let the old wow die look at sony and everquest one and 2 is still alive and kicking what makes you think they would just pull the plug and piss people off not a good idea at all they might let you play both mmos then like wow 1 and 2 i seen alot of mmos do that ext.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 03:53 PM ----------

    also everquest changed there engine at one point it was a massive diff you need to put down that kool-aid of yours sir.
    So Everquest represents the majority of gaming companies as well as Blizzard? Good to know, since that is complete news to me.

    I said majority. Not everyone. M.A.J.O.R.I.T.Y. See the difference?

    Neither do you, but at least I can point to their own track record as well as their behaviour in regards to the game that does not imply anything about them ever rebuilding the game in a new engine. It's so unlikely that they will do it that it's not even worth pretending like they will.

  2. #3022
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    So Everquest represents the majority of gaming companies as well as Blizzard? Good to know, since that is complete news to me.

    I said majority. Not everyone. M.A.J.O.R.I.T.Y. See the difference?

    Neither do you, but at least I can point to their own track record as well as their behaviour in regards to the game that does not imply anything about them ever rebuilding the game in a new engine. It's so unlikely that they will do it that it's not even worth pretending like they will.
    Your right because they don't have the $$$ to do that no wait...

  3. #3023
    Quote Originally Posted by mikencarly View Post
    Your right because they don't have the $$$ to do that no wait...
    Bill Gates doesn't have the money to buy all the NHL teams and make them wear dresses no wait...

    The key is motivation. What would motivate Blizz to spend the time/money and completely remake a game that already has subscribers and a loyal fan base. If it's way down the line with 2 mil subscribers left, thats even less incentive since the remaining players are even less likely to leave due to their fandom of the game.

    The game does need a graphical update. But it's priority and cost are way too ridiculous to justify. In the meantime there are plenty of other issues I would like Blizz to handle first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  4. #3024
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    That doesn't mean they won't.

    Blizz could do it right now if they wanted but it's not worth it until average PC tech takes another huge leap which it will in a few years.



    They could do that as well. I am happy with either solution as long as we see the game improve.



    Lol. Technology and software evolve very quickly. Have you ever seen the size of the first computers?

    The reason why you see so many free to play games now is precisely because they are relatively easy to make compared to when WoW first launched. But if you went back in time 15 years even many free to play games you see now would have been impossible to make.

    You are trapped in the present. I notice this mentality in politics a lot too. Things change. You don't have to wait for a train to run you over before you realise that the light at the end of a tunnel is a train.



    Perhaps. That is a very likely scenario, but Blizz could improve WoW nevertheless. I suspect that they will upgrade the graphics as best they can for a while with the current engine and average PC tech in mind, but since Titan isn't going to compete with WoW, Blizz will keep updating the engine even if that means remaking it if WoW remains popular.

    When average PC tech takes another leap then it will be easier to upgrade WoW's graphics.
    Completely irrelevant. No one uses the technology the first computers used in this day and age and neither can those computers be turned into a modern day computer, which is equivalent to your entire argument. Technology can get so old that they can't even be used with more modern ones. The longer you wait, the harder it becomes to use the older stuff with the new. There are plenty of instances where advancements in software and hardware have made it impossible to use things like older programs and file formats simply because they are too outdated and are no longer supported. You don't see Diablo 3 built on the Diablo 2 engine or Microsoft using Windows 95 to make Windows 8. The older stuff are simply too outdated.

    For this to even be feasible for a game like WoW, they need their older assets to complete such a project in a reasonable time, and that is not possible by waiting even longer when more of their technology will become so old and outdated that it's just as well that they start from scratch, which could just as well be packaged and sold as WoW 2.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 04:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mikencarly View Post
    Your right because they don't have the $$$ to do that no wait...
    That is a really poor argument. Especially when money can't magically fix every problem.
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2013-05-17 at 04:45 PM.

  5. #3025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    Completely irrelevant. No one uses the technology the first computers used in this day and age and neither can those computers be turned into a modern day computer, which is equivalent to your entire argument.
    My point was tech evolves. Future tech and future software will let devs do things they simply cannot do now and let them do things that are hard now much easier in the future.

    Understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    Technology can get so old that they can't even be used with more modern ones. The longer you wait, the harder it becomes to use the older stuff with the new. There are plenty of instances where advancements in software and hardware have made it impossible to use things like older programs and file formats simply because they are too outdated and are no longer supported.

    For this to even be feasible for a game like WoW, they need their older assets to complete such a project in a reasonable time, and that is not possible by waiting even longer when more of their technology will become so old and outdated that it's just as well that they start from scratch, which could just as well be packaged and sold as WoW 2.
    If software is still relevant and there is a demand for it then it can simply be remade.

    You are basically trying to make excuses for Blizzard's greed and laziness by claiming that updating the game is impossible to do. If the Warcraft Intellectual Property remains popular, then Blizz would be foolish to abandon it. But then maybe Bobby Kotick has made enough money and has lost his motivation? Hey, it always happens sooner or later.

    Ok let me put it this way then: if Blizz want to lose millions more subs, then they should keep being lazy. I'm sure they will still make tons of profits in the meantime, however.

    Then when they make a new game, we, the customers, will remember what Blizzard did and favor the competition who will be working harder for our money.

    So I don't mind if Blizz keep being lazy as long as competition can emerge.
    Last edited by mmoc614a3ed308; 2013-05-17 at 04:59 PM.

  6. #3026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    My point was tech evolves. Future tech and future software will let devs do things they simply cannot do now and let them do things that are hard now much easier in the future.

    Understand?



    If software is still relevant and there is a demand for it then it can simply be remade.

    You are basically trying to make excuses for Blizzard's greed and laziness by claiming updating the game is impossible to do. If the Warcraft Intellectual Property remains popular, then Blizz would be foolish to abandon it. But then maybe Bobby Kotick has made enough money and has lost his motivation? Hey, it always happens sooner or later.

    Ok let me put it this way then: if Blizz want to lose millions of more subs, then they should keep being lazy. I'm sure they will make tons of profits in the meantime, however.

    Then when they make a new game, we, the customers, will remember what Blizzard did and favor the competition who will be working harder for our money.

    So I don't mind if Blizz keep being lazy as long as competition can emerge.
    Still irrelevant to what you said about it being easier in regards to the older, outdated technology. You are simply incorrect with your claim.

    What the heck are you even talking about? Moving on from WoW is not the same as abandoning the IP and neither have they shown any plans to stop producing updates to the game. Heck, it's not even guaranteed that a new engine would solve the subscription losses, so even if Blizzard did do it the results may not even be desirable.

    There is no magic fix to make all the problems go away.

    Also, I never said that it's impossible to rebuild WoW in a new engine. That is your own statement about my position, not mine.
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2013-05-17 at 05:16 PM.

  7. #3027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    ...it's not even guaranteed that a new engine would solve the subscription losses, so even if Blizzard did do it the results may not even be desirable.
    It depends if the IP remains popular. I don't think it's going anywhere.

    Resident Evil and Silent Hill are both still here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    There is no magic fix to make all the problems go away.

    Also, I never said that it's impossible to rebuild WoW in a new engine. That is your own statement about my position, not mine.
    When average PC tech and graphics take a leap (for average players) then it will be easier to update the graphics, even if they have to remake the engine. I think if WoW still remains popular 2 years from now despite the aging graphics, then they will seriously consider it because that would be proof that the IP is more popular than graphics. It might be easier than making a sequel. Considering how successful WoW has been already Blizz don't really have anything to prove. Warcraft will be here for a long time.

    All I said was tech and software evolve very quickly.

  8. #3028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    To be fair the LoL community is also far more toxic than WoW's community.
    Easily more toxic. In fact most new games I try the community seems to be highly toxic and flat out aggressive. Those unhappy with WoW or whatever game they were playing are the worst ones to deal with in new games.

  9. #3029
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    It depends if the IP remains popular. I don't think it's going anywhere.

    Resident Evil and Silent Hill are both still here.
    Silent Hill is a franchise that has been getting milked for every penny since Silent Hill 2. Most of the games are garbage and their sales show. Every now and then there's a slightly above average one and fanboys praise it like the new messiah. I compare Silent Hill Downpour to Episode III of Star Wars: "Hey this one doesn't completely suck!" What a raving review.

    RE5 rode the coattails of RE4 and sold more copies like Cata rode the coattails of Wrath/TBC and sold more copies even though their predecessors were considered much superior. Then RE6 and MoP came out and their sales disappointed because of RE5/Cata's poor reviews. Are these really your examples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    When average PC tech and graphics take a leap (for average players) then it will be easier to update the graphics, even if they have to remake the engine. I think if WoW still remains popular 2 years from now despite the aging graphics, then they will seriously consider it because that would be proof that the IP is more popular than graphics. It might be easier than making a sequel. Considering how successful WoW has been already Blizz don't really have anything to prove. Warcraft will be here for a long time.

    All I said was tech and software evolve very quickly.
    So because WoW lasted so long without a major graphical upgrade, 2 years from now is the time to upgrade graphics? Graphics have never been a strong point of WoW and games dont need insane graphics if the gameplay is good ie Minecraft. If WoW will be here for a long time as you say, then there's no need for Blizz to dump extra time and money into developing a brand new engine for a 10 year old game. It wouldn't make business sense. Time would better be spent making better gameplay.

    Also, better technology does not equate to easy implementation. WoW is a game with so much code on top of code on top of code that many things that were coded in Vanilla can't be changed less they may break the entire game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  10. #3030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    Silent Hill is a franchise that has been getting milked for every penny since Silent Hill 2. Most of the games are garbage and their sales show. Every now and then there's a slightly above average one and fanboys praise it like the new messiah. I compare Silent Hill Downpour to Episode III of Star Wars: "Hey this one doesn't completely suck!" What a raving review.

    RE5 rode the coattails of RE4 and sold more copies like Cata rode the coattails of Wrath/TBC and sold more copies even though their predecessors were considered much superior. Then RE6 and MoP came out and their sales disappointed because of RE5/Cata's poor reviews. Are these really your examples?
    Both franchises are still alive despite being old and have been adapted into movies.

    My point was that IPs remain popular over time. People here are only arguing against that because they want to make excuses for Blizzard being lazy and letting WoW die.

    The game is old, but the IP is still popular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    So because WoW lasted so long without a major graphical upgrade, 2 years from now is the time to upgrade graphics?
    It is proof that the IP is still popular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fagatronics View Post
    Graphics have never been a strong point of WoW and games dont need insane graphics if the gameplay is good ie Minecraft. If WoW will be here for a long time as you say, then there's no need for Blizz to dump extra time and money into developing a brand new engine for a 10 year old game. It wouldn't make business sense. Time would better be spent making better gameplay.

    Also, better technology does not equate to easy implementation. WoW is a game with so much code on top of code on top of code that many things that were coded in Vanilla can't be changed less they may break the entire game.
    Or remake the engine.

    WoW has stunning art that ages well. That's why the graphics haven't become outdated fast. Technically, WoW was old when it was new.

    So people claiming that WoW is "old" so Blizz should do nothing are wrong. WoW's art is still amazing.

    It would make business sense to remake the engine if the game still has *millions* of subs, if the IP is still popular, and if it needs to compete more. That's a lot of money. And Blizz have the money to do it. If they want to be greedy fair enough. If profits are more important than the game, then again fair enough. Competition will eventually replace WoW.

  11. #3031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    It would make business sense to remake the engine if the game still has *millions* of subs, if the IP is still popular, and if it needs to compete more. That's a lot of money. And Blizz have the money to do it. If they want to be greedy fair enough. If profits are more important than the game, then again fair enough. Competition will eventually replace WoW.
    Depending on how many resources you need to spend remaking it it might make more business sense to make a sequel. A sequel would after all probably be more likely to attract new players and old players who've quit than a remade engine for an old game would.

  12. #3032
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    It depends if the IP remains popular. I don't think it's going anywhere.

    Resident Evil and Silent Hill are both still here.



    When average PC tech and graphics take a leap (for average players) then it will be easier to update the graphics, even if they have to remake the engine. I think if WoW still remains popular 2 years from now despite the aging graphics, then they will seriously consider it because that would be proof that the IP is more popular than graphics. It might be easier than making a sequel. Considering how successful WoW has been already Blizz don't really have anything to prove. Warcraft will be here for a long time.

    All I said was tech and software evolve very quickly.
    Of course the IP will remain popular when WarCraft has such a long and strong history. That does not make WoW guaranteed to continue to be popular if a new engine is used. WoW is not equivalent to the entire IP of WarCraft and it never will be.

    You have no basis to make such a claim. The current engine is too old for significant graphic updates and Blizzard has already done a lot of graphical updates over the years. They are pushing what the engine is capable of.

    Also, graphics is only one aspect of a game engine. The graphics is not the main problem, it's the limitations that affect the gameplay and features that could help spice things up in the game. A new engine would need to improve these aspects significantly for it to be a worthwhile effort. A graphics update will not simply cut it.
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2013-05-17 at 07:39 PM.

  13. #3033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    Depending on how many resources you need to spend remaking it it might make more business sense to make a sequel. A sequel would after all probably be more likely to attract new players and old players who've quit than a remade engine for an old game would.
    Probably. But that will take Blizzard half a decade to make. If Titan isn't going to compete with WoW then an aging WoW isn't going to compete with other MMOs in that genre. Therefore they will have to remake the engine at some point in the future unless they have a replacement ready or are prepared to lose more players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    Of course the IP will remain popular when the franchise has such a long and strong history. That does not make WoW guaranteed to continue to be popular if a new engine is used. WoW is not equivalent to the entire IP of WarCraft and it never will be.
    So you don't want WoW to have better graphics and gameplay? You just want Bobby Kotick to make more money and milk the game as it dies? He's not going to share any of that with you, know you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    You have no basis to make such a claim. The current engine is too old for those updates and Blizzard has already done a lot of graphical updates over the years. They are pushing what the engine is capable of.

    Also, graphics is only one aspect of a game engine. The graphics is not the main problem, it's the limitations that affect the gameplay and features that could help spice things up in the game. A new engine would need to improve these aspects significantly for it to be a worthwhile effort. A graphics update will not simply cut it.
    They will remake the engine sooner or later to keep up with demand if that demand exists. The engine can create a more solid foundation for more modernized gameplay as well.

    Of course there's no guarantee. There never is. But considering WoW's sheer popularity, it's not going to die any time soon, and even a mere few million subs is still highly profitable.

    Don't you want WoW to improve?

  14. #3034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    So you don't want WoW to have better graphics and gameplay? You just want Bobby Kotick to make more money? He's not going to share any of that with you, know you.



    They will remake the engine sooner or later to keep up with demand if that demand exists. The engine can create a more solid foundation for more modernized gameplay as well.

    Of course there's no guarantee. There never is. But considering WoW's sheer popularity, it's not going to die any time soon, and even a mere few million subs is still highly profitable.

    Don't you want WoW to improve?
    What I want is irrelevant to what Blizzard is going to do. Also, even if I think that improving WoW is a good thing, I frankly desire a new game more than continuing with updating a game I started playing in 2006. A new game would offer more than a game I know inside and out at this point.

    Titan is their answer to a more modern MMO. If they truly wanted WoW to not fall behind they would have focused on getting WoW on a new engine at this point. They obviously have not even started with such a task, so they have already wasted time to make a new engine worthwhile. Blizzard is planning for a future where WoW is not as popular as it has been for so long. Every action they're making points to this direction.

  15. #3035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    What I want is irrelevant to what Blizzard is going to do. Also, even if I think that improving WoW is a good thing, I frankly desire a new game more than continuing with updating a game I started playing in 2006. A new game would offer more than a game I know inside and out at this point.

    Titan is their answer to a more modern MMO. If they truly wanted WoW to not fall behind they would have focused on getting WoW on a new engine at this point. They obviously have not even started with such a task, so they have already wasted time to make a new engine worthwhile. Blizzard is planning for a future where WoW is not as popular as it has been for so long. Every action they're making points to this direction.
    They don't need to upgrade the graphics engine because the competition is so weak. WoW might not be as popular as it once was but it sure as hell will still be popular. WoW is the Playstation of MMORPGs. Blizz will slow the decline until they remake or replace the game. Again, if there's a demand for it.

    I think the WoW IP still has a lot of potential, but the only thing that will force the best out of Blizz or anyone for that matter is more competition which we won't see for a long time.

  16. #3036
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    They don't need to upgrade the graphics engine because the competition is so weak. WoW might not be as popular as it once was but it sure as hell will still be popular. WoW is the Playstation of MMORPGs. Blizz will slow the decline until they remake or replace the game. Again, if there's a demand for it.

    I think the WoW IP still has a lot of potential, but the only thing that will force the best out of Blizz or anyone for that matter is more competition which we won't see for a long time.
    I can agree with that. There really is no reason for Blizzard to push things when the competition is weak at best.

  17. #3037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    I can agree with that. There really is no reason for Blizzard to push things when the competition is weak at best.
    There's been plenty of competition, and it's all taken it's toll on the game.

    Even if they're small games comparatively, combined they're doing, and have done, plenty of damage.

  18. #3038
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Both franchises are still alive despite being old and have been adapted into movies.

    My point was that IPs remain popular over time. People here are only arguing against that because they want to make excuses for Blizzard being lazy and letting WoW die.

    The game is old, but the IP is still popular.




    It is proof that the IP is still popular.



    Or remake the engine.

    WoW has stunning art that ages well. That's why the graphics haven't become outdated fast. Technically, WoW was old when it was new.

    So people claiming that WoW is "old" so Blizz should do nothing are wrong. WoW's art is still amazing.

    It would make business sense to remake the engine if the game still has *millions* of subs, if the IP is still popular, and if it needs to compete more. That's a lot of money. And Blizz have the money to do it. If they want to be greedy fair enough. If profits are more important than the game, then again fair enough. Competition will eventually replace WoW.
    Remaking the game plus making a new expansion would mean a lot of down time which would be spent on current content. They would have to redesign pretty much every model to get the models to 2013 game quality. The downtime wouldn't be worth it to me.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  19. #3039
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    They don't need to upgrade the graphics engine because the competition is so weak.
    you are right, they should wait until the competition is really strong before they start to improve things.

    oh, wait.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  20. #3040
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    There's been plenty of competition, and it's all taken it's toll on the game.

    Even if they're small games comparatively, combined they're doing, and have done, plenty of damage.
    Sure, but chipping off bits and pieces does not exactly motivate Blizzard to push things more than they have always done. A lot of damage has been caused by the game itself and its flaws, so the competition is still not that strong, if you ask me. Many have a tendency to come back to the game more or less.

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