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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    At times. Several Northrend quests as I understand it have Saurfang covering for his mistakes, and he makes a big blunder in twilight highlands. Would have lost Org in Tides of War as well if he hadn't had 'lol krackens' on standby he could summon to anywhere. .
    You can blame some of those for gameplay reasons. If NPCs didnt screw up the players couldnt be the heroes for saving everything.

    If you look at the Isle Of Thunder quest line the Blood Elves are total failures that would be getting slaugheterd wuthout the players carrying them
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  2. #22
    At this point I cannot care less what the WoW team writes for Garrosh, because I know my opinion means nothing to them.

    But if people want to bitch about immersion in our favorite MMORPG, maybe they should campaign for blizzard to allow for players to side with the KorKron, or against, and draw a new faction line based on that decision.

    Based on that, count me in for the Korkron, cuz I want to know what it feels like to be real bad guy in an MMO universe.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey P View Post
    At this point I cannot care less what the WoW team writes for Garrosh, because I know my opinion means nothing to them..
    Its a shame that Blizzard gave him some good characteristics in his early stages. Becomes a big disapointment for those that liked him.

    Then again, if Blizzard made him 100% villian since BC his story wldnt make sense, so idk
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  4. #24
    Garrosh isn't a "I will murder everyone who disagrees with me" type of orc
    So then exactly what does he mean when he says "You will serve the Horde or be crushed beneath it?"

  5. #25
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklady View Post
    So then exactly what does he mean when he says "You will serve the Horde or be crushed beneath it?"
    Well, if you don't serve the Horde at all (the HORDE, not just him) there is no point on being part of the Horde at all, you're just prove to him to be the type of parasite that he thinks the other races of Horde are.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 01:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Creations View Post
    Garrosh is our Hitler. He has good ass quotes, but terrible leadership and feels his people are better than the rest of the world. Wouldn't be surprised if garrosh commited suicide.
    Excatly. Garrosh have a lot of similarities with this kind of dictators. He's a powerful and charismatic leader, good at leads wars, much less to handle politician matters, he inspire his people with "national pride", they grow with this mindset that slowly become zealotry as time goes by. They are further inspired and proud with every victory until things are fine, but when an awful problem that worsen every day appears, at this point they are simply incapable of discarding all this pride and go to war, trying to take what they need by force submitting the other countries, convinced to have the strength, and so the right to do so. Then the countries form a coalition, composed even of the allies or some of the same people of the dictator, that doesn't tolerate the way the dictator is leading them, and in the end put him down.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 02:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    At times. Several Northrend quests as I understand it have Saurfang covering for his mistakes, and he makes a big blunder in twilight highlands. Would have lost Org in Tides of War as well if he hadn't had 'lol krackens' on standby he could summon to anywhere. Also a terrible political leader from the get go.
    I don't remember much of the Northrend quests, but if i remember correctly more than dealing with a Garrosh making mistakes was dealing with a Garrosh being a douche, that didn't had trust in the player's value nor respect, and send him/her to some kind of suicide mission. Saurfang just saved the day.

    Yeah he would have lost Orgrimmar without the Kraken, but point is he knew, and he was able to use them when needed.
    Agreed that as politician is horrible, anyone knows that by now, except the blind Garrosh's lovers maybe that doesn't want to accept it (or just doesn't care at all).

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 02:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Its a shame that Blizzard gave him some good characteristics in his early stages. Becomes a big disapointment for those that liked him.

    Then again, if Blizzard made him 100% villian since BC his story wldnt make sense, so idk
    They gave good traits probably for let's anyone understand that he didn't go in the "villains side" because he's a corrupted crazy monster, but because he have essentialy good reasons for do so, but in a wrong and misplaced way.
    Ironically the very reason for which many liked him (myself, too) was the same that made him a villain, or more correctly an antagonist, like the badass way he deal with the Alliance, much more aggressive and less peaceful and "submitting" than Thrall. But when you talk with an orc outside Orgrimmar that say that thanks to Hellscream the Horde is changed and now just take what it wants, if you honestly belive that the escalation of events are out of place, you're deluded and naive.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-11 at 02:46 PM.

  6. #26
    I am Murloc! Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Kosak or Metzen or whoever was answering that last Q&A, openly and directly stated that he's not corrupt.
    But what if...
    Everyone but garrosh are corrupted, and he is only pure character ? We consider lack of corruption as abnormal, and therefore as corruption even if its not corruption !!!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklady View Post
    So then exactly what does he mean when he says "You will serve the Horde or be crushed beneath it?"
    No, cause it's more like: "You will serve the ORCS or be crushed beneath it"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    But what if...
    Everyone but garrosh are corrupted, and he is only pure character ? We consider lack of corruption as abnormal, and therefore as corruption even if its not corruption !!!
    Oh sure, the Garrosh's Crusade. He go to Heartglen, kicks Tirion in the mouth, and take control of the Crusade. Then someone asks "which evil we must fight, good sir?" and Garrosh says "ALL GODDAMN, ALL ARE EVIL, KILL ALL, KILL EVERYTHING!!!"

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxilian View Post
    No, cause it's more like: "You will serve the ORCS or be crushed beneath it"
    "I will stop at nothing - nothing - to ensure a proud, and glorious future for the Orcs, and anyone who has the courage to stand with us"
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey P View Post
    At this point I cannot care less what the WoW team writes for Garrosh, because I know my opinion means nothing to them.

    But if people want to bitch about immersion in our favorite MMORPG, maybe they should campaign for blizzard to allow for players to side with the KorKron, or against, and draw a new faction line based on that decision.

    Based on that, count me in for the Korkron, cuz I want to know what it feels like to be real bad guy in an MMO universe.
    They can't even give the Alliance their own story in 5.3, and you want them to expand Horde content further? That said I do get what you are saying, to an extent. But I can't support this.

    Sorry, I'm not trying to go off topic here, but this bugged me.

    As far as Garrosh goes, I believe that he's always had a lust for power, but frankly I don't like his character much. He shifts personality each expansion. If he survives this one, ironically he will make yet another shift. For this reason and this reason alone, I want him to die off. Blizzard clearly does not know what to do with him. It's better this way.
    Last edited by therealbowser; 2013-05-11 at 04:13 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Excatly. Garrosh have a lot of similarities with this kind of dictators. He's a powerful and charismatic leader, good at leads wars, much less to handle politician matters, he inspire his people with "national pride", they grow with this mindset that slowly become zealotry as time goes by. They are further inspired and proud with every victory until things are fine, but when an awful problem that worsen every day appears, at this point they are simply incapable of discarding all this pride and go to war, trying to take what they need by force submitting the other countries, convinced to have the strength, and so the right to do so. Then the countries form a coalition, composed even of the allies or some of the same people of the dictator, that doesn't tolerate the way the dictator is leading them, and in the end put him down.
    Pride. Such as in the lesson of Pride the Panderan Emperor teaches.

    Been looking again at Lorewalker Chos stories too (really love those) and they also have some connection.
    For instance the "Gods and Monsters" talks about the legacies of parents and how they pass down onto children. Which is relevant to Garrosh as the deeds's of his father his a major driving force for him.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    At times. Several Northrend quests as I understand it have Saurfang covering for his mistakes, and he makes a big blunder in twilight highlands. Would have lost Org in Tides of War as well if he hadn't had 'lol krackens' on standby he could summon to anywhere. Also a terrible political leader from the get go.
    Which character is a tactical genius? Varian currently but that's about it.

    Any other major character makes some serious tactical flaws (/wave Sylvanas) or simply does not appear in a role as military leader, like Baine.


    It's also a not a real argument in a MMORPG, we're there to fix the mistakes made by other people and actually save the ass of some commander which is unable to get out of tricky situations by himself.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  13. #33
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    As far as Garrosh goes, I believe that he's always had a lust for power, but frankly I don't like his character much. He shifts personality each expansion. If he survives this one, ironically he will make yet another shift. For this reason and this reason alone, I want him to die off. Blizzard clearly does not know what to do with him. It's better this way.
    You don't like the character and you're free to, and probably you don't care aswell. But it has been stated many times by those who actually read novels and have a solid understanding of it that the "shifts personality" argument is baseless. If you're so certain of it, treat it like a personal opinion, not like a proved fact.

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