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  1. #1
    The Patient
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    Resons why WoW is "dying"

    I'm about to say a few reasons why i believe WoW is "dying". I really hope a Blizzard employee is reading this, and I ask you all to debate why the subs are constantly going down.

    1- The social aspect of the game is gone: There is a serious lack of player interaction in the game. You don't have to form any bonds within the game in order to succed. Easy LFRs and "Heroics" play a big part in here, since you don't have to communicate anymore in order to come up with a good strategy. Guild perks and rewards also contribue to this situation, right now guilds are a bunch of players groupd in order to increase the guild level and to give players rewards. Guild levels / perks / rewards were a terrible addition to the game, because right now a lot of guilds have no real goals, no real player interaction... they are just a bunch of players looking for guild rewards.

    2- The lack of the seems of adventure: Yeah, I know, Pandaria can be a fascinating continent... but the PvE experience there, for casuals, is just ridiculous. Players can basically afk in LFR or just pretend to play during a "heroic" dungeon in order to get gear. There is no fun in doing herocis anymore. I remember back in TBC that heroics required tons of coordination, and CC actually meant something, and you know what? I was FUN!!! I mean, of course there were some very hard heroics, such as Shattred Halls and Shadow labs, but there were "easy" heroics that required a good group effort, such as Hellfire Ramparts. Wipes are part of this game. A ridiculously easy game is a boring game, but a challenging game can last forever!

    3- Empty servers: Players want a solution to empty servers, and want a solution NOW! We are tired of "we were talking about solutions" excuses. Servers are falling apart and guilds are closng their doors, it's time to give us a solution instead of promises. (No, CRZ is not a solution, it is actually a problem).

    4- Dailies: Valor points + countless dailies and reputations... yeah

    5- Alts: MoP is a very alt unfriendly expansion, do I need to say more?

    6- The lore: The lore is not that interesting. Look at TBC, we face major characters of WoW's lore, such as illidan, kil'jaeden, kael (twice), Vashj, etc. In WotLK we face the Lich King himself alongside his army (anub arak, kel'thuzad, etc)... But not... we fight some creatures we have never heard of (Mogu, Sha, mantid), waiting to finally kill the warchief that basially noone likes. Another problem is how the alliance lore was poorly developed. I play on the horde side, but I feel pity for all the alliance players who have to put up with that storyline... I mean, where are the Draenei? What about the worgen? and the night elves, what is tyrande doing? And WHY do we have to fight the trolls in the middle of a snowstorm?

    7- The gear: Too many tiers of gear, it makes the gamme too complicated and create means to segregate players.

    That's all folks! Feel free to talk!

  2. #2
    1-It's only gone if you want it to be, and you DO need to form bonds within the game to succeed at anything meaningful within it. Look for a real guild.
    2-Choose to do content that is more difficult, not getting much out of heroics? Run Challenge Modes, LFR to boring? Do Normal/Heroic, stop complaining about difficulty if its about the easiest content in the game. Especially when more difficult options are available.
    3-Valid Point
    4-Better than having nothing, remember Cataclysm?
    5-True
    6-Ok
    7-There is nothing complicated about gear ilvls.
    Last edited by -ex-; 2013-05-09 at 06:13 AM.

  3. #3
    Maybe it's the fact that its a very old game(by gamer standards), and not all games last forever.
    '"Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you."
    - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  4. #4
    There are plenty of threads with the same topic, couldn't you post in one of those?

  5. #5
    By now WoW is pretty old, and so much can be done on it's engines and graphics. For a 2004 or was it 2005 game
    '"Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you."
    - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  6. #6
    That's all it is, the game is old as hell, and naturally like any game it's slowly going to die off. Unless they want to do a complete revamp (which they won't, they'll focus their resources on a new game) then the game is going to die. Whilst the points you said are valid criticisms, fixing them won't spring the game back to life. They are just the flaws in a game which is slowly dying of other reasons. Honestly it's a miracle they've the game alive for so long.

  7. #7
    Could the fact that the game is nearly a decade old now and people are becoming burnt out on it be a primary factor?

    I agree that they need to bring back Heroics where you actually had to CC to get by certain pulls mentality, because the ones now require very little coordination. And I do agree that the Mogu and the Thunder King thus far have proven to be far less interesting than Illidan, Arthas, and Deathwing, lore mainstays as villains -- but this is only still the early segments of the expansion. There is still time for the story to progress and I for one find the controversy revolving around who the next Warchief will be as well as Garrosh's final fate to be fascinating.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bionics View Post
    I agree that they need to bring back Heroics where you actually had to CC to get by certain pulls mentality, because the ones now require very little coordination.
    They have content like this, run Challenge Mode...

  9. #9
    WoW still has 8.3 Million players, does that sound dead to you? There are many of these topics and this one is irrelevant..
    "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

  10. #10
    The Patient Crysis's Avatar
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    Your points are so bad, it hurts me eyes while I'm reading it. I'm not even going to comment on the first five, because they are explained in so many other threads and blue posts that its so ridiculous that you even mentioned them.

    Now to the "lore" point - The Warcraft universe is progressing, it's not fun to be stuck in the past, major characters grow old, some of them die, some of them turn bad, some of them remain good and some of them just aren't interesting atm because there are other characters playing major parts during this progress. Garrosh is in the spottlight, so is Anduin, Wrathion, Varian, Vol'jin, Jaina and Thrall just deal with it for god sake. The lore is good, people who say its dont support any valid arguments to back their opinions up and thus are just haters/fanboys/kids that don't understand how story-telling works especially in fantasy genre.

    And gear? The only thing that Im worried about when it comes to gear is that we have only recolors of the same models and I miss the variety, this is partly because of LFR but also because Blizzard created so many features that they have now to deal with that it is impossible for them to make more armor/weapon models - which is sad a bit.

    But those are not the reasons WoW lost 1,3m subs and neither are the first five points. People stop playing, because there is so many more MMOs these days and WoW is more than 8 years old now, its only logical we see some downfalls. The next xpac will raise that number and I don't predict WoW ever going under 6 millions players - which is still impressive and WoW should remain the largest MMO on the market. Until they shut it off, it won't "die".
    "In this universe effect follows cause. I've complained about it but—"

  11. #11
    Immortal Nindoriel's Avatar
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    WoW isn't dying. It's losing a couple of subsribers. Why is it losing so many subscribers? According to Blizzard it is mostly from the Asian market and they say it's due to f2p games who lure away players. And that's completely reasonable. Maybe the subscription model is nearing its end. The only reason WoW is still holding on to the sub model, is because they have so many players and it's probably more profitable to them than f2p.

    Another reason they gave is that the players leaving are casual players. Maybe they are the on and off again players, or they disliked the lack of good 5 man content or they just didn't like the heavy focus on dailies. In any case I doubt the game will ever completely lose its subscribers. Look at SWTOR. They have around 500.000 players. Last year they made the switch to f2p because it's more profitable to them. If WoW is ever going to have subscribership close to that number, they will probably switch to f2p before they abandon the game. This game will not go anywhere anytime soon.

    And maybe 12 million players is just the most an MMO can have. Maybe that was the peak. Maybe it's just not possible to get more players into it.

  12. #12
    I think the dead servers are becoming more of an issue for them than they thought they would, but as others have said the largest problem is its age. I wouldn't matter if we were killing Sargeras it probably would still be sliding downhill. Most MMO's this old are doing good to hold on to 100k players let alone 8 million.

    Most of the things you listed are fairly minor issues in the grand scheme. Sure it might cause some to quit, but not this much.

    TBH the top two things causing the decline

    1. Age
    2. Competition from lots of F2P games globally.

    Social, adventure, lore and gear are all so far down the list they would probably just be honorable mentions if you sat down and talked to Blizzard.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakesong View Post
    4- Dailies: Valor points + countless dailies and reputations... yeah
    I cap my VP every week and don't do a single daily. I finished all my rep grinds months ago (and I got them to exalted, you only need revered for gear - I just wanted achis/vanity items/etc). The new VP vendor requires rep you can only get from running the actual ToT raid. Dailies are completely optional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakesong View Post
    5- Alts: MoP is a very alt unfriendly expansion, do I need to say more?
    Yes it is, because it has a huge amount of content for even one toon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakesong View Post
    6- The lore: The lore is not that interesting. Look at TBC, we face major characters of WoW's lore, such as illidan, kil'jaeden, kael (twice), Vashj, etc. In WotLK we face the Lich King himself alongside his army (anub arak, kel'thuzad, etc)... But not... we fight some creatures we have never heard of (Mogu, Sha, mantid), waiting to finally kill the warchief that basially noone likes. Another problem is how the alliance lore was poorly developed. I play on the horde side, but I feel pity for all the alliance players who have to put up with that storyline... I mean, where are the Draenei? What about the worgen? and the night elves, what is tyrande doing? And WHY do we have to fight the trolls in the middle of a snowstorm?
    Tyrande was featured recently in a scenario. And I've found more lore in MoP than all previous expansions put together, they've improved the game a lot in that respect. Yes a lot of the big bad guys are dead now but what do you expect? The longer the game goes on the more we resolve issues from previous games.
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  14. #14
    1-3. totally agree
    4-5. not a problem, work for it. not even that much work unless you have 3-5 alts and if you do don't QQ about not being able to gear them all, you are not supposed to.
    6. lorelol. the wow lore is just commercial bulshift since TBC. don't take it too seriously, theres other games that try harder and are better at lore. (tear in my eye just thinking how good it was up untill war3 included)
    7. totally fine for PVE. what i dont like is segregation between pve and pvp gear.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakesong View Post
    1- The social aspect of the game is gone: Partially agree, you can join a guild however.

    2- The lack of the seems of adventure: Don't get how the text you typed is tied to this point? However, 5 mans are designed to be left behind.

    3- Empty servers: Has no effect on me.

    4- Dailies: You complaining about the existence of dailies is ridiculous, I don't complain about PvP even though I don't like it, I just don't play it, simple as that.

    5- Alts: MoP is good expac for alts imo, got 7 90's, 3 with legendary meta.

    6- The lore: Lore and storytelling is better than ever, just because you feel nostalgic about WC3! (important) times, that doesnt mean that developers should keep wow stagnant and absent of new lore characters.

    7- The gear: Disagree wholeheartedly.
    There there.

  16. #16
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bionics View Post
    Could the fact that the game is nearly a decade old now and people are becoming burnt out on it be a primary factor?

    I agree that they need to bring back Heroics where you actually had to CC to get by certain pulls mentality, because the ones now require very little coordination. And I do agree that the Mogu and the Thunder King thus far have proven to be far less interesting than Illidan, Arthas, and Deathwing, lore mainstays as villains -- but this is only still the early segments of the expansion. There is still time for the story to progress and I for one find the controversy revolving around who the next Warchief will be as well as Garrosh's final fate to be fascinating.
    They tried the "hard heroics" thing in cata and lost 1mil subs.

    OT: Wow is not dying, it still has more subs than ALL the other mmo's on the market combined. That doesn't sound dead to me. If you dont like it fair enough, quit and play something else but dont you really dont need to create these stupid threads.
    Last edited by Evil Inside; 2013-05-09 at 06:46 AM.
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  17. #17
    I'm actually gonna agree with the ilvls being too complex now.

    Cataclysm (season 1 / first tier) was
    ilvl 346 Heroics
    ilvl 352 PvP Blues
    ilvl 359 Normal Raids / Arena Weapon
    ilvl 365 - Both Heroic and top Arena gear.

    Now I couldn't even tell you what anything is, not even the PvP gear ilvls (I'm a pvper), but if anything the PvE side is even worse. It's really confusing and I actually think it's far too complicated, blizzard should go back to a simpler system - not being nastalgic, I remember cataclysm really well.

    Edit: To the guy above me, they have lost about 2 million now since MoP with "accessible content", aswell. IMO, players are more likely to stay if there is a challenge, than something that is just a breeze and is on farm the minute you ding 90. And yeah, even though I'm a PvPer at the very start of Cata I was in a small 10 person guild with 3 other friends who were irl friends, and a mage... we were doing Cata heroics everynight and I remember we couldn't kill the first boss in SFK, but it never made me want to quit... infact it made me want to get better.
    Last edited by Kuhnai182; 2013-05-09 at 06:53 AM.
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  18. #18
    1. I don't think that would be the case if people didn't have 15 different things to do in the game. The more people are interested in something, the more they care and talk about it. LFR and LFD aren't all that bad ; but again they are only good if they are used as an introduction to raiding. They are bad if they replace raiding imo.

    2. This is true. A new patch comes, we do a ton of dailies and just do scenarios to see things happening. I would much prefer questing in the world instead of that. Its pretty stupid actually that they want us to see the whole pandaria while playing but at the same time just pretty much ignore it. Scenarios are dumb and not needed, the only reason people do scenarios is because they require 3 people .. I've never heard anything else positive about them.

    3. People like to migrate to high populated servers, therefore the people that can't are left alone. Paying 20$ for a character transfer is way too much.

    4. Agreed that it is not fun. Farming mobs is fun and its what makes isle of thunder a fun area. Dailies.. not so much. It makes no sense to do the same quests over and over.. it wouldn't make sense while leveling would it?

    5. Agreed again. What is the point of creating a legendary questline that goes on for the entire expansion.. and dungeon > lfr > raid made sense. dungeon > lfr > lfr > lfr > pug > raid is a lot of work. They created a lot of tiers for both pve and pvp. Btw I think valor upgrades are fun, but they need to remove valor gear. There is way too much valor grinding to do right now.

    6. The lore is actually interesting.. leveling was hard but I enjoyed the lore while leveling a lot.

    7. Completely agreed. Nobody besides the top 20 raiding guilds have any time to get gear and enjoy it for a while. Valor upgrades would make more sense if we didn't have too many tiers of gear too.
    Last edited by Rorschachs; 2013-05-09 at 06:55 AM.

  19. #19
    Probably because they are working on "pet battle spectating", and more scenarios.

    People play(ed) for the overall atmospheric content which includes the lore, the setting and how your character(hero) affects and conquerors it.

    Dungeon crawling, raids and guilds were what drove the content and subscription base.

    With the introduction of the LFR/LFD, you lose the guild/friend/server intimacy and are just a class designation.

    Pet battles, seriously holy fuck, who ever thought that should be part of wow should be fired and sued for stupidity.

    Scenarios, another shitty example of bad game design.

    People at this time see their characters as investments, and when you see a company so stupid as to push pet battles, scenarios, and now pet battle spectating, instead of delivering dungeons, great immersive lore and locations, the investors(players) are no longer investing.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 07:07 AM ----------

    If WoW stripped out all of the shit fluff game play and returned to it's roots, providing a story worthy of personal investment, where the player felt immersed into the story, and not distracted with all the lame pop culture references, brawlers guild, pet battles, farmville, and really became a dark and bleak landscape where there was actual danger in the world, people would return.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakesong View Post

    1- The social aspect of the game is gone: There is a serious lack of player interaction in the game. You don't have to form any bonds within the game in order to succed. Easy LFRs and "Heroics" play a big part in here, since you don't have to communicate anymore in order to come up with a good strategy. Guild perks and rewards also contribue to this situation, right now guilds are a bunch of players groupd in order to increase the guild level and to give players rewards. Guild levels / perks / rewards were a terrible addition to the game, because right now a lot of guilds have no real goals, no real player interaction... they are just a bunch of players looking for guild rewards.

    2- The lack of the seems of adventure: Yeah, I know, Pandaria can be a fascinating continent... but the PvE experience there, for casuals, is just ridiculous. Players can basically afk in LFR or just pretend to play during a "heroic" dungeon in order to get gear. There is no fun in doing herocis anymore. I remember back in TBC that heroics required tons of coordination, and CC actually meant something, and you know what? I was FUN!!! I mean, of course there were some very hard heroics, such as Shattred Halls and Shadow labs, but there were "easy" heroics that required a good group effort, such as Hellfire Ramparts. Wipes are part of this game. A ridiculously easy game is a boring game, but a challenging game can last forever!

    3- Empty servers: Players want a solution to empty servers, and want a solution NOW! We are tired of "we were talking about solutions" excuses. Servers are falling apart and guilds are closng their doors, it's time to give us a solution instead of promises. (No, CRZ is not a solution, it is actually a problem).

    4- Dailies: Valor points + countless dailies and reputations... yeah

    5- Alts: MoP is a very alt unfriendly expansion, do I need to say more?

    6- The lore: The lore is not that interesting. Look at TBC, we face major characters of WoW's lore, such as illidan, kil'jaeden, kael (twice), Vashj, etc. In WotLK we face the Lich King himself alongside his army (anub arak, kel'thuzad, etc)... But not... we fight some creatures we have never heard of (Mogu, Sha, mantid), waiting to finally kill the warchief that basially noone likes. Another problem is how the alliance lore was poorly developed. I play on the horde side, but I feel pity for all the alliance players who have to put up with that storyline... I mean, where are the Draenei? What about the worgen? and the night elves, what is tyrande doing? And WHY do we have to fight the trolls in the middle of a snowstorm?

    7- The gear: Too many tiers of gear, it makes the gamme too complicated and create means to segregate players.

    That's all folks! Feel free to talk!

    1: Really hate the social BS because their was never a social aspect to WoW apart from your guild. If their was then people wouldn't be spending hours trying to get a tank and healer to do a dungeon and Blizzard wouldn't be forced to make a dungeon finder.

    2: if people go afk in my lfr do you know what happens.....they get kicked even if I don't say anything. Second if your talking about challenging then why not do that exactly do challenge modes

    3: Maybe Blizzard will combine empty servers but this is more of a techincal thing and your overstating the impact since your talking about a minority here. I play on a medium server and I don\t really see what is happening on the empty servers

    4: They offer valor so what? does it suddenly force you to do dailys? The only reason why you should feel to do dailys (with current patch) is that they give coins which you don't even bother mentioning.

    5: With patch 5.3 anything that made this expansion alt unfriendly is gone in my opinion, pet battle for coins and rep isn't needed anymore since the early wings in lfr is more then enough to ge to TOT.

    6:You know you never had any interaction with the major lore characters in TBC do you? And your overstating the number of people that knew who Illidan, KJ, Kael thas, Vashj was. Blizzard cares about lore because thats how they build their game, but majority of the people don't give shit and we always fight creatures we never heard about before (the pre humans is a great example)

    7: We have 3 tiers of gear this expansion, Vanilla has 3, TBC has 3, WOTLK has 4 cata has 3. If anything the previous expansions had to few tiers since people ended up doing the final raid for almost a year.

    Honestly you have no clue why World of Warcraft who is has 10 times more subs then any other MMMO is losing players, your looking it form your own point of view and assume everybody thinks like you. Just going to say but people in china (majority of the players lost) have different culture and expect different things.

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