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  1. #221
    Stood in the Fire Kcin14's Avatar
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    Blizzard took a gamble when they casualized the game and let's be honest they lost drove older players away in mass numbers and a lot of them have moved on if they were to try to turn back now they'd drive away the new people they were trying to get.

  2. #222
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    . Man. This is by far the #1 thing I miss in wow.
    I miss the long dungeons, I don't miss the fact they were half hour dungeons with another hour being corpse runs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 02:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kcin14 View Post
    Blizzard took a gamble when they casualized the game and let's be honest they lost drove older players away in mass numbers and a lot of them have moved on if they were to try to turn back now they'd drive away the new people they were trying to get.
    They drove away the super hardcore EQ players. That was Cata.

    Then they took a turn to the grind-loving game that is MoP, and now casuals are bailing.

    MoP in one quarter lost more than Cata lost in any single quarter.
    "You should only install Warlords on your master hard drive. They will never be slaves." - @CM_Lore


  3. #223
    It's nostalgia you're thinking of, nothing more. You can't strike lightning in a bottle twice. You aren't ever going to feel the way you felt about the game back then, ever again.

    The game was at its peak going into Cata, and they shot themselves in the foot, big time. It wasn't even the fact that it was too casual. It was the fact that they spent so much time revamping the older zones, that end game content suffered, big time. I remember that within a month and change there was literally nothing to do. People sat around in their respective cities bored out of their skulls. That shouldn't happen.

    I remember a blue post where someone said (I can't remember who), that it broke their heart to see that people had nothing to do. If they had focused on end game content more and not released a rushed Dragon Soul raid that we had for months and months, maybe they would have kept more people.

    Mists of Pandaria was much, much better, but the problem was so many people were sour over Cata, and the fact that they advertised Mists of Pandaria to look very kiddie, that soured people even more. I think the only thing that can really get people talking again is a BC style expansion again (hopefully Burning Legion) and then have a cool bad guy and have a very dark and awesome atmospheric type feel to the entire expansion. People want and love that type of stuff. JMO
    Last edited by KClovesGaming; 2013-05-09 at 07:58 PM.

  4. #224
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    I miss the long dungeons, I don't miss the fact they were half hour dungeons with another hour being corpse runs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 02:50 PM ----------



    They drove away the super hardcore EQ players. That was Cata.

    Then they took a turn to the grind-loving game that is MoP, and now casuals are bailing.

    MoP in one quarter lost more than Cata lost in any single quarter.
    Not quite.

    Pre-4.3 Cataclysm was driving away the casuals with difficulty.
    Post-4.3, I thought they'd learned from their mistakes.

    Turns out they had, but only because they were making other mistakes with Mists, such as driving away the casuals with grind.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  5. #225
    Pit Lord Worgoblin's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP, and it's the main reason I do not play WoW anymore (aside from on a Vanilla private server). I cannot get immersed in it, the feeling of a world is gone. In its place are conveniences and instant gratifications. It's like a giant lobby game now.

  6. #226
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Not quite.

    Pre-4.3 Cataclysm was driving away the casuals with difficulty.
    Post-4.3, I thought they'd learned from their mistakes.

    Turns out they had, but only because they were making other mistakes with Mists, such as driving away the casuals with grind.
    Yeah, 4.3 was a marked improvement.

    Then MoP pissed all over that marked improvement.

    Makes me wonder what the alternative to MoP was and why that would have driven away more than 1.3 million players a month....
    "You should only install Warlords on your master hard drive. They will never be slaves." - @CM_Lore


  7. #227
    Scarab Lord Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcin14 View Post
    Blizzard took a gamble when they casualized the game and let's be honest they lost drove older players away in mass numbers and a lot of them have moved on if they were to try to turn back now they'd drive away the new people they were trying to get.
    I kinda wish people would stop associating the "Casualization of the game" with older players quitting. Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that a lot of the "older players" have been playing this game every week for the past 7+ years? Maybe we're just ready to move on to something new, not because we think it's bad and "not hardcore enough" but just because some of us have sat in front of a computer screen playing a singular game for over 1 YEAR OF OUR TOTAL LIFE. That's 365+ DAYS of playing one game...

  8. #228
    Mechagnome Supakaiser's Avatar
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    Blizzard doesn't swallow. Blizzard spits (all over its fanbase).

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgoblin View Post
    I agree with the OP, and it's the main reason I do not play WoW anymore (aside from on a Vanilla private server). I cannot get immersed in it, the feeling of a world is gone. In its place are conveniences and instant gratifications. It's like a giant lobby game now.


    Couldn't have said it better myself. The RPG aspect of the same is dying/dead. I'ts all ease of use gameplay now. Fast Food entertainment.

  10. #230
    Well, if you turned all that stuff off on PvP realms, it might encourage/require some well-known PvE guilds to move off the PvP servers, which would help with the population problems.

    So, I guess, it's a good idea?

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    I kinda wish people would stop associating the "Casualization of the game" with older players quitting. Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that a lot of the "older players" have been playing this game every week for the past 7+ years? Maybe we're just ready to move on to something new, not because we think it's bad and "not hardcore enough" but just because some of us have sat in front of a computer screen playing a singular game for over 1 YEAR OF OUR TOTAL LIFE. That's 365+ DAYS of playing one game...
    I totally agree that this accounts for some departures. I'd also point out that most of the departures according to their press release were in asia, and things relating to that locale probably has a fair amount to do with it as well, rather than necessarily this or that design decision by Blizz.

  12. #232
    Add meaningful group play to it and I'd also come back for sure. The immersion in WotLK wasn't so bad to be perfectly honest but they way they handled playing with others really sucked the fun out of the game for me. Yes you can still do that of course, either on the very hardcore level or when PuGing but the first is not for everyone, it's too stressful and requires too much commitment while the other either has no cooperation at all or you you can do everything faster and get bigger rewards on your own so it's really discouraging to play with anyone if they just drag you down. For me it just lead to doing things on my own and using the guild chat and ventrilo.. then I just realized why not just cut out the middleman and save some money too. I can talk and message just as well outside the game than in it.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagoroth23 View Post

    The game was total sandbox
    The game was never a sandbox at any point.

    Also what is with all of the hyperbole on a lot of these posts/threads?

  14. #234
    You dredge up a few great points and solutions, but there are a few problems.

    All ability to teleport to Dungeons, Make everyone ride there.
    Why not, makes sense to me.

    Remove Flying mounts from Azeroth
    Absolutely, plus the fps rate will greatly improve.

    Remove all high level guards from low level towns and villages
    Not such a great idea, if you do this idiots will constantly kill all the questgivers and that will discourage levelers and new players.

    Buff Dungeons so that you actually need to play your class properly
    The problem at lower lvls isn't that the dungeons are too easy, the problem is "heirloom" is way too good. Why not set up three modes of diffucult for each dungeon? This way the casuals can have easy mode and the hardcore can do their thing too.

    Remove at least 50% of wind riders and graveyards, get the traffic back on the roads
    Bad idea, who wants to spend 15 mins of their precious time riding to a spot, it's just plain dumb and a lot of other games have done away this as well.

    Remove Ability to teleport into Battlegrounds, make us go to battlemasters as in the old days (just make more of them to avoid griefers).
    Not a bad idea.

    Remove a lot of phasing as it ruins immersion when you chase someone and they suddenly vanish.
    I think phasing helps with the immersion of the game, so I disagree. And who are you chasing a lvl 45 warrior? I mean seriously.

    All future expansions should take place in Azeroth, do not add any more zones, just develop the story on Azeroth so it thrives once again.
    Excellent idea!!!

    The problem with implenting a lot of your "great" ideas is fixing the inequities first. There are PVP servers with a horde to ally ration of 18:1, this is more the norm than the exception. Who the hell wants to get their teeth kicked in 24/7 just to do a dungeon/raid or bg, people will stop playing the game in droves. Xferring is not the solution either, who wants to piss away $200 xferring toons to another server which may eventually have the same problem. Your solutions are dead on the money - CORRECT, but other things need to be solved before your good ideas can be implemented.

    The bottom line is, free to play games offer competitive value to the consumer. I, for one, dont feel $15 a month is a lot of money or unfair, but a lot of people do apparently and Blizzard either needs to either rethink their business or provide more for their customers.
    Last edited by Luxeley; 2013-05-09 at 08:17 PM.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    The game was never a sandbox at any point.

    Also what is with all of the hyperbole on a lot of these posts/threads?
    Rose-tinted glasses. They don't like how the game is now so they refuse to accept that the game is doing fine right now. Yes, they lost a huge number of subscribers this quarter, most of them from asia. The game still has 2-3x the subscriber base of any other subscription MMO out there. The game is not dying, the game does not need to be 'saved'.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagoroth23 View Post
    So lets talk solutions:

    Blizzard need to swallow their pride, admit they got it wrong and give Azeroth back to the people.

    Remove the following things:

    All ability to teleport to Dungeons, Make everyone ride there.
    Remove Flying mounts from Azeroth
    Remove all high level guards from low level towns and villages
    Buff Dungeons so that you actually need to play your class properly
    Remove at least 50% of wind riders and graveyards, get the traffic back on the roads
    Remove Ability to teleport into Battlegrounds, make us go to battlemasters as in the old days (just make more of them to avoid griefers).
    Remove a lot of phasing as it ruins immersion when you chase someone and they suddenly vanish.
    When was the last time you heard someone say: "Man, I wish they never added additional graveyards or flight paths"
    Like, do you think people sitting on the sidelines are going to hop back in when they read "Removed half of all existing flight paths and graveyards. Enjoy your corpse runs!" in the patch notes?

    I don't really agree with the want for battlemasters. On one hand, you want people out and in the world, right? so why make all the PVP'er have to camp around the battlemasters in Org,SW,IF,Etc so they can requeue when they get back from their queue pop.

    I don't think you're going to be able to get flying mounts out of azeroth anytime soon. Take solace in that they stand strong on the stance that you wont be flying in pandaria until level cap.

    I can half agree that we need a harder difficulty of dungeon, though. Cata dungeons were hard in difficulty, but they were also pretty long in some cases (WC, SFK, HoO, Etc.) I wouldn't mind a hard, but short instance, like halls of reflection. This was doubled by the fact that in pre-raid gear, healers were pretty fucking terrible off the get-go in cata.

    Compared to the difficulty of MoP heroics, where you can brainlessly pull the instance with little concern, I would say that there's room for another difficulty. Should go back to the regs->heroics easy/hard model of TBC.

    I don't think the issue is solely quality of life, but more in delivery of content.

    Scenarios were too easy, Inconsistent in length, and punishing if you have a lack of solid DPS.
    Heroics were too easy. There was no other difficulty.
    Dailies were heavily emphasised as a means of progression (Which is great, if you happen to like dailies) by gating VP rewards.
    LFR was pretty hit and miss.
    Normal had obscene difficulty spikes at launch, causing a lot of modest guilds to get stonewalled on fights like Elegon, Garalon.

    The sheer leveling curve and need for rep cock-blocked a lot of alt-players who were living it up in cataclysm.

    Additionally.

    I don't think they'll open a classic/TBC/WLK server. Ever. Nobody wants to run sunwell/ICC/Classic Naxx for more than a couple years. While I think they would have some popularity for the first while, once people realize they'll never get new content, they'll start to leave.

  17. #237
    I don't know what game you're playing, but I get tons of world PvP in Pandaria, as well as when I'm leveling alts (thanks to CRZ)

    ps. your solutions are bogus

  18. #238
    0/10. Complete shit suggestions. If you really want vanilla wow/ BC again, may I suggest finding a private server for your needs? (Am i allowed to say that?)

    Another elitist player; nothing to see here.
    Quote Originally Posted by kivipää View Post
    Total capitalism, on the other hand, is a system where the few are the winners, and the rest are powerless. It is also an impossible system, because the vast majority of people will be unhappy. And when that happens, the winners of yesterday tend to be the lynched of today, and the system is changed.
    Welcome to America. Here is your corrupt politician, complementary gun, and your fixed news. Hope you enjoy your stay.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    And this solution would lose all the players who dislike "rehashed" content. Did you seriously not see the massive backlash against Cataclysm? I also can't think of a better way to stagnate the game than to stop adding new stuff.
    Oh, I would hardly say it was the "rehashed" content that turned people off to Cataclysm as opposed to the lack of content and general mediocrity of said content. In fact, I'd say the overall difficulty of heroics at launch had more of an effect on sub losses than rehashed content.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 04:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    Rose-tinted glasses. They don't like how the game is now so they refuse to accept that the game is doing fine right now. Yes, they lost a huge number of subscribers this quarter, most of them from asia. The game still has 2-3x the subscriber base of any other subscription MMO out there. The game is not dying, the game does not need to be 'saved'.
    So, how many other subscription MMOs are out there? 2 (Rift and Eve)? It's not about how many subscribers they have. The better barometer is how much money are they pulling in per month around said game. That's not exactly something we can gauge since many F2P MMO companies don't need to report their revenue. As it is, saying they have so many more subscribers than other subscription MMOs is short sighted considering sub MMOs only make up 1-2% of the MMO market as a whole.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by ribald View Post
    I still wish Blizzard would release some Vanilla or TBC servers.

    Yes I know all the arguements why that wouldn't and shouldn't happen, but I can hope.
    That won't happen simply because Vanilla/BC servers will shoot to the top of most populated servers list in a few weeks if not days. Can you imagine what an embarrassment it will be for Blizzard when several years old versions of WoW kick the ass of the latest version?

    It will be Blizzard's admission that they screwed up big time. So, don't hold your breath. I can only imagine it happening if the sub numbers drop horribly and they cannot come up with other ways to make up for the income deficit, since money > pride.

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