It was one of my top 10 reason listed for leaving wow.
I am highly sympathetic to the OP's suggestions. The difference between flying over a zone, and actually being among the creatures, dangers and others in the zone is tremendous. If you're skeptical, fly over the Jade Forest in Pandaria, or even Feralas, and then ride back on the ground. The difference is immense.
What's done is done, no way back. But the future MMOs need to be like what WOW was, not like it's now. Or unlike WOW at all.
The QoL changes should have never come, yet now we're too much dependant on them
From what I heared in the report a lot of players quitting were casuals.
And from a casual PoV the game is what I believe to be bleak in terms of Heroic Raiding. Valor Capping and finding gold to aquire crafted Gear for Progression take way too long when paired up with the legendary grind and take more time than casuals have. That is without setting one foot inside a Raid.
Also casuals are hard to entertain and tend to get bored with their mains, flirting with alts, which is an impossible thing to do atm.
However, there's some hope on the horizon for alts with faster legendary questing and levelling in the next patch and also with the new Scenarios which give much valor and a chance for moderately good items in a quick time investment.
But lets face it the subscriber decline isn't just caused just by the WoW development team but also by other games. There are Games like TERA or Starwarstor that look better and are free and there's PS4 on the Horizon with games like Deep Down that people see and realize how dated the WoW graphics are
If WoW wants to raise subscription numbers then it should be more casualized and a lot of abilities need to be purged so that also console heroes and People with Pads can play it.
However, there were also bad times without flying like when I earned LV88 through Dungeons but it was a pain to reach the LV88 Questing area because it took way too long to find a way through that stupid wall.
Corpserunning without the flying Ghostbird also proved either challenging or even impossible at times when I died from knockback on otherwise unreachable Pandaland terrain or from falling after the "crossrealm zone dismount bug".
I would prefer something like a Hardened shell to dismount enemy players for PvP Realms:
as an Item for everyone that you buy with Honor but it should put a parachute and an ivulnerability Shield on the opponent so they don't die from falling and melee can't be sniped by ranged but instead a fair battle can occur.
ALso to some of the OP's suggestions:
#2 So you want to recreate the South Park Experience where one random Loser can corpsecamp all low level Players of entire Servers (or nowadays multiple Servers over CrossRealm)
#3 It has been done and is called "Challenge Mode". Reaching CM Gold is said to be harder than some heroic fights.
#4 It can take an hour to walk through a continent. Kodos to the Devs for making so much content but if a player's goal is reaching the other end of a continent with all your suggestions like forced PvP that has unavoidable corpsecamping and graveyard removal then said player may never reach the end. What you suggest is a hardcore roleplay world where everything is as hard as it would be @IRL.
And I don't raid hard for that glowing Cloud Serpent, Frost Dragon , or Pterodactyl to crouch on ground with them. I want to fly them aswell :-)
#5 So Everything should take place on Azeroth, but a lot of players want to play on Outland. Makes no sense to me.
Sure, nowadays it's just a party train of constantly swapping random raid members who just cycle through the four World Bosses and use them as Loot Pinatas without putting in any effort but it's still fun.
Last edited by Fincher; 2013-05-09 at 09:48 PM.
Completely agree. There is no community, no immersion, no "world" anymore.
They've turned this into a single player game.
Log on, queue up to instantely do anything in the game for an hour or two with a couple strangers, log off.
It's destroyed the game.
Yeah, I've been playing since Vanilla, and I would hate almost every single one of the OP's ideas if they were implemented.
Remove teleports to dungeons? I play a warlock, and I know what this would cause. Everyone to sit in SW or wherever and wait for me to get there so that I could summon them. People do that shit NOW, when it's easy as hell to get places. Only way I would even consider this is if they ditched summoning as well.
Removing flying mounts from Azeroth--why? So that when you're max level you still have to spend minutes riding in boredom to get to where you're going? I don't have a problem forbidding flight until you're past that content, but once that happens, then fly away. Also with removing flight plans. I might agree that there are too many of them now, but there were way way too few back in Vanilla.
Guards? I don't PVP, so I don't really care about this one. Teleporting into BGs either, by extension, though I think it also falls into the same situation as with dungeons, above.
Buffing dungeons? I don't understand why people feel that they need to close off accessibility to people who don't reach their arbitrary level of "skill." It's a game, and games should be fun. Granted, steamrolling content isn't always fun either, I can accept that side of the argument and even support it. For example, I have a friend who used to play. He was an OTR truck driver, so he couldn't play at any time and place that he felt like. He didn't care about researching optimal talent builds, ability rotations, and so on. I play on a more-or-less nightly basis. I try to be as good as I possibly can to help my raid group progress. My friend was never going to be as "skilled" as I am at the game. From the arguments that I keep hearing, he shouldn't be allowed to do anything in the game. I call bullshit on this one.
Phasing, IMO, actually improves immersion, though I don't think that's the word you really mean to use here. Now the world changes along with you. You accomplish something, and the world reflects that. You are now an active part of the world.
The OP early in his post made a comment about the game being in the players' control. Turns out that the players have exercised that control in making and supporting the choices given to them. None of this was crammed down our throats by Blizzard, saying that we will do these things or else. At least if you're going to be upset about things, direct it at the right people.
First I have to admit, I didn't read the 11 pages of comments, so maybe someone said this.
If you read the WoW forums, all the casuals complain that the reason they are leaving is because Blizzard has made MoP too elitest like it was in Vanilla/BC. Gearing is too hard due to double and often triple gating (Golden Lotus Exalted to get Shado-Pan or August Celestials, in addition to gating with VP), no new 5 man dungeons in 5.2 giving 476 or 483 epics allowing access to ToT, too many dailies taking up too much time in order to gain rep and access to gear.
Here lies the problem: If they go back to the Vanilla/BC model casuals aren't happy; if they go back to the Wrath/Cata model hardcores aren't happy.
Personally, I like how they they have tried to find a balance between the two.
What I don't like is a post for another day...
(Source)Morhaime did point out that the bulk of the decline came from the East, where the competition from free-to-play MMORPGs is fierce. "Given the more competitive market, and the length of time since the last expansion, we do expect further volatility this year," Morhaime said.
If it's good enough for Morhaime, it's good enough for me and should be more than adequate for you as well.
I'll take them one at a time, though probably someone has done so already:
Remove ability to port to dungeons: Tried something sort of like this in the beginning of Cataclysm, where people had to fly to a dungeon before queing for it for the first time. Everyone hated it.
Remove flying from Azeroth: Various zones/areas don't have flying. People complain constantly about the ganking.
Remove all high level guards from low level towns and villages: People who quest and have their quest zone killed off completely just quit playing, instead of doing whatever it is you suggest.
Buff Dungeons so that you actually need to play your class properly: Cataclysm, again. I LOVED the heroics, people not in a guild, or in a casual/inactive guild, HATED them. Who do you think is quitting? casuals or hardcores? 1.3 million is not hardcores, it's casuals.
Remove at least 50% of wind riders and graveyards, get the traffic back on the roads: Wind riders, ok, not much problem there, graveyards? put traffic back on the roads? when you're dead? I don't see your point here.
Remove Ability to teleport into Battlegrounds, make us go to battlemasters as in the old days (just make more of them to avoid griefers).: Already not great participation in random bgs, due to the huge gear imbalance. I'm sure if you A: take away flying and B: make people run to them, more people will play them, right? right?
Remove a lot of phasing as it ruins immersion when you chase someone and they suddenly vanish.: They worked on this, phasing is a lot better than it used to be back in wrath.
As for the OP: to me this sounds less like "bring back immersion" and more like "bring back world PvP", because every one of those changes (save the difficult dungeon one) you want is directly linked to how easy it is to avoid world PvP for the non-PvPer.
And it has been said many, many, many times in the past; there is NOTHING immersive about "LF tank UBRS" for 2+ hours in trade.
---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 05:48 PM ----------
As for phasing in Wrath, there wasn't much of it. The real problem with phasing arrived in Cataclysm in places like Hyjal.
If I had a nickle for every person convinced the ideal version of WoW they invented in their head was the 'right' was WoW should be, I'd have a hell of a lot of nickles. And if Blizzard acquiesced to even a handful of them, the game would be an incoherent mess of contradictions subscribed to by - you guessed it! - that one person, and just about no one else.
WoW has made mistakes, but most of the decisions that have been made by Blizzard were the 'correct' decision to make the best game for the majority of players. Now might it have been foolish to give in to popular demand in certain cases? In hind sight, of course, but no one knows at the time of implementation which decision is the silly one and which is the successful one. For example, if I told you a month before the BC release that flying mounts were going to become a major point of contention, almost every player would have scoffed at me for being a Blizzard hater. And you know what? They'd have been right! Flying mounts were a logical addition, and a fairly successful one, until the implementation guided subsequent content such as the Cataclysm revamp.
Basically the conclusion to take away is that WoW has always been, and will be until the last server goes down, a massive experiment. The things we love most in this game were a result of trial and error, and the things we've come to hate about this game are, well, examples of some of those errors. To suggest that you know best how to do a top to bottom overhaul isn't just foolish, and it isn't just egocentric, it's also attempting to take credit for realizations that have been a decade in the making thanks to countless hours of Blizzard developers. What you're doing with this thread (and everyone else who makes threads like these) is akin to saying the last word in someone else's sentence and trying to assert that you totally had that idea all along. Blizzard knows this game has weak links, everyone in the community knows this game has weak links, but it's a lot more complicated than just deleting this, swallowing pride on that, and bazing perfect game!
--- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.
A lot of people started to play on PVP servers after flying was a thing, now that it's not in some areas they are qqing loudly. I get that it's part of it, and I accept it (I'm on Kil'Jaeden US, which is PVP) but that doesn't mean people don't complain. People complain, and then quit, or quit and then complain. either way, "casuals" HATE this aspect of Isle of thunder.
Remember, we're talking about why/when people leave, right now it's casuals, en masse, since I doubt there are 1.3 million hardcores in the world.
Phasing in Wrath, you ever complete the argent quests and then try to summon at ICC? That's where it was the worst and caused the most problems.
You seem to be confusing what Blizzard should do, with what I want them to do.
All future expansions should take place in Azeroth. They did that in Cataclysm and that worked out so well, didn't it?
The decline is WoW subcribers is mostly in Asia, which isn't all that surprising. All the shit you see in the game, they live in a real world like that. Would you wanna play a game that is almost exactly as your real life is? No.
Dailies aren't helping, but the real problem is the fact that you have to do them to gain reputation with certain factions. Bring back rep tabards. Bring back an awesome story. Don't introduce boring characters such as Deathwing. Blizzard is simply milking the cow, they are adding extra expansions into the mix because they see $ signs. But alas, the community isn't falling for it. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, stop bringing old instances to the maximum level. All Blizzard is doing, is giving us less new stuff. Look at how much instances there were throughout WotLK. Look how unique and new they were. Instead in Cataclysm we get Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep at level 85. Give me a break.
Blizzard just puts less and less effort into creating new stuff. Who cares if we can do Deadmines again? I want new Dungeons that play into the story, like Utgarde, where the Lich King appears and empowers a boss. Wanna bring back an old instance? Put a new story in it, like Naxxramas.
WotLK did, as I recall, everything right. Cataslysm was just bad. Mists of Pandaria is a lot better on a lot of fronts, but also continues the decline by introducing 463453452 dailies we have to do each day for rep. Blizzard is, I've said it before, just milking us. They don't give us a lot of unique content, no, they make us farm 32423 dailies every day for rep so they keep getting paid without actually having given us something awesome in return. Blizzard is doing this more and more.
What Blizzard needs to do is stop dumbing the game down, needs to introduce another epic story and, above all else, needs to stop with bringing old content back. Bring back the WoW as it was in WotLK.
Statix will suffice.