regardless of the actual difficulty of normal raiding, easier or harder then previous xpac, there are many guild progressing through it. The tier isn't over yet.
For easy raiding, you have LFR now.
why are people crying about difficulty? Before, their argument were that very few go to actually see the content. but now there is LFR, so seeing the content is no more the actual reason. Why do people want easier normal raiding then?
For example, my resto Druid ran HoF for the first time yesterday. He finally got the required ilevel from PvP gear, since he hardly got any drops from MSV. So PvP gear, only just managed to get in, a disc priest and 2 healadins in the raid ... I should have been the bottom healer by far.
Instead we almost wiped on trash several times because two of the healers didn't do a damned thing. They did at least decide to participate for the boss fight, yet I still managed to come top on healing. That shouldn't have been possible.
On the next boss, we almost wiped because of people not bunching up for the unseen strikes(?). I was second on healing, less than 1% below first place. I'd checked out the other healers on the way - my gear was 466/470, the others were all 478-500ish.
Finally on Garalon, most of the DPS managed to die to pheranomes. We still managed to kill him just before he enraged, and I was third on healing, despite being oom for most of the fight.
All through the run, people were constantly harassing each other, deliberately giving the wrong tactics, trying to cause wipes, vote-kicking random people, body pulling .. it was a really painful run, and may have been enough to stop me queuing again for a couple of weeks.
LFR can be okay, but it can also be like this. Good groups become increasingly rare over time.
I have read all of this topic and many people throw the term "casual" around like its something to be looked down on. Casual by its definition simply means relaxed, easy going, not taking things too serious. Many casuals as people call them read forums. Many try to do quite good when they play. To me a casual raider is someone who wants to raid with friends in an easy, laid back environment. An environment that doesn't require min-maxing, perfect execution or hours of study on boss mechanics. LFR, from what blizz has said is designed for players who cannot raid on a schedule at all. Most casual players can raid on a schedule but with content that punishes minor mistakes they are left with LFR or ditching friends. Many times the friends they leave have been their friends for years. IMO LFR shouldn't be considered a difficulty at all. It should be more like Normal is for the easy relaxed players who want to run with friends and heroics should be for players who want a massive challenge. I honestly don't know why many "hardcore" players care about the difficulty of normal modes. I mean really? What do they care? They have their content in heroics, let the rest have their normal modes and people who don't have a schedule to raid with a group have LFR. Thats my opinion.
I have no problem with bad players, I just don't like people who don't make any effort, or who deliberately try to ruin things for others.
"In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)
The people you describe are, more than likely, trolls. I've been running LFR often lately and when there's a bad group it's usually not because someone is an idiot, it's because they have the mentality "LFR is ez mode" and don't bother to try because of that. I have very rarely ever seen an actual "bad" player, usually it's some arrogant asshole that just doesn't feel they should bother to try their best because they figure they'll just get carried by everyone else.
Honestly the decline in casual engagement doesn't surprise me. The amount of casual content in this game has gone way up, and it's probably a little overwhelming to the casual players, especially if the "ZOMG THIS IS MANDATORY!" mindset carries over from the more hardcore players.
Really though, since most of the losses were in a region where the market is different and the game itself is very different, it's kind of pointless for us to discuss what went wrong as really none of us know. The concerns that we have could mirror those of the eastern players that left, or they could be entirely different because the game/market is different. *shrug*
Again, 42k guilds killed Stone Guards before 5.2 launched, 25k killed Jinrohk.
Why wouldnt people cry about difficulty when there are TWO difficulties tuned for the top 20% of raiders and NONE for the lower 80% of ORGANIZED raiders?
Dont you see how DUMB that is? Why do the top 20% of raiders need two difficulties tuned for them while there are ZERO for the lower 80%?
---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 09:19 AM ----------
The only casual content in MoP are 5 mans (which wont be made anymore), LFR and pet battles. Thats it.
Blizzard told casuals to screw themselevs and made MoP for the special snowflake elitists.
Last edited by Crashdummy; 2013-05-16 at 12:20 PM.
- is the difficulty of a tier the sole factor in the decrease of raiding guild? obviously it may will be a factor, but is it the sole, is it even even the major one?
- could the loss of 20k guild really blame for the loss of 1.3 millions sub?
- nerfing normal raiding will widen the gap between normal and heroic, do you believe heroic should be nerfed too? do you think that once player based used to the lower difficulty of normal raiding, they may be asking next quarter a nerf of the heroic as well?
- one last question, hypothetically, what if by "casual" player, blizzard didn't meant normal raider but LFR raider, would that mean that it is LFR that cause the lower engagement of the casual player.
There would also be losses from those who wanted to do organized raiding, but had that aborted before it could even start.- could the loss of 20k guild really blame for the loss of 1.3 millions sub?
Heroic raiders are such a small minority that keeping them happy isn't a high priority. So, yes, heroic raids might be nerfed, and some of those who enjoy the current tuning might quit. It's tough getting thrown under the bus like that; if that happens, do what the greatly larger number of casuals do and vote with your (much smaller number of) dollars. Alternately, they might decide it's ok to have a large normal/heroic gap; there's a case to be made there too.- nerfing normal raiding will widen the gap between normal and heroic, do you believe heroic should be nerfed too? do you think that once player based used to the lower difficulty of normal raiding, they may be asking next quarter a nerf of the heroic as well?
If it helps any, I will say I like the idea of a large normal/heroic gap. This has some good social/psychological consequences, even if some people did complain about ToC.
If LFR is not engaging players, that argues for the inclusion of an easier organized raiding difficulty level. Ion H. has just confirmed there's a gap between LFR and normal. They recognize the problem, even if you might not want to.- one last question, hypothetically, what if by "casual" player, blizzard didn't meant normal raider but LFR raider, would that mean that it is LFR that cause the lower engagement of the casual player.
Last edited by Osmeric; 2013-05-16 at 12:46 PM.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson
I'm leaning towards the belief that they're too close in difficulty at present, and heroics should never get 'end of tier' nerfs.- nerfing normal raiding will widen the gap between normal and heroic, do you believe heroic should be nerfed too? do you think that once player based used to the lower difficulty of normal raiding, they may be asking next quarter a nerf of the heroic as well?
blizzard claimed that the majority of accounts lost were in the asian markets, where hourly fees are more prevalent. would you resub an alt account or two just to do LFR when you can repeat it (if you really desired) on your main account ? blizzard fluffed its sub numbers for years with these accounts, now they're facing reality.- one last question, hypothetically, what if by "casual" player, blizzard didn't meant normal raider but LFR raider, would that mean that it is LFR that cause the lower engagement of the casual player.
Folks are now using the Exodus issue to push their 'the content's too hard' agenda?
---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 08:48 AM ----------
But it's fading away from my mind
There's another "me" waiting behind
Lack of dungeons, heavy grind based expansion, CRZ and several other aspects probably had more to blame than raiding in the sub l
Heroic raids might be nerfed in the means of the required effort required. More and more top guilds are being disbanded because they cant keep the pace of the race because of all the things they need to do in order to compete, but thats something Blizzard should decide listening to heroic raiders only.
Last edited by Crashdummy; 2013-05-16 at 01:07 PM.