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  1. #261
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    In the first week of expansion by just doing Heroics? As a casual player? that is two per day?
    Whether I am casual remains to be seen. Also, if you do only two heroics per day, then whatever the catch-up mechanic is (besides free gear at vendor) you will take a long time to perform the said catch-up (or gearing up).

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    So it wasn't not the case in the Cata until the moment Cata needed some catching up mechanics? What other funny things are you going to say...
    And the way they implemented those catch-up mechanics was pretty much forced. Also, it lead to all players getting their 378 gear, then do LFR, and then leave or roll a crapload of alts. So it was not the smartest idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    That it took much more time to get enough badges in WotLK? Like there were no ToC 5 mans to get you ready for ToC raid? YOU DIDN'T NEED badges to catch up in WotLK. They were complementary. To buy the odd piece you didn't get in 5-mans!
    And you magically got ALL ToC gear in just 2 heroics per day? But of course...

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  2. #262
    The problems with WoW run much deeper than just dailies and LFR. The game does not have an identity anymore, it doesn't know who its audience is. It tries to make too many people happy and end up making no one happy. Its too bland and simplified for the hardcore, too grindy and time consuming for the casuals.

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  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    i can help

    TBC shipped with

    Full T4
    Full T5 (but bugged)
    Half T6 (mount hyjal)

    2 month later patch 2.1 gave us the 2nd half of T6 (black temple)
    and MoP shipped with t13.75 (idk what else to call MSV ^^) and t14 and some what, 4 or 5 months latter, gave us full t15

    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    By the time the tree tiers were available in game, i was still progressing in karazhan.
    by the time ToT became available a lot of people were still stuck in HoF or terrace normal, lets not even go into how many people killed sha of fear on heroic

    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    See the difference now?
    no

  4. #264
    Bloodsail Admiral dryankem's Avatar
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    The only issue was there were too many dailies at the beginning. Those that needed to do everything ASAP burned themselves out, those with half a brain took their time (hardcore or casual). Dailies are fine in small doses and should be kept that way, the most anyone should have done is 45/week (which is far less than the old 25/day) for their charms and that's it, since rep was obtained far quicker than VP earned.

    Blizzard wanted to slow things down so that a person with one toon had a ton of things to do, which they did but it hurts alts and casual players since there is too much to do. It's great to have lots to do but they tied a lot of it into decent rewards which made people convinced they had to have everything. Blizzard tried to change the culture of trying to have the best of everything but I don't think they ever can, people will always strive for that and if you don't have the best food/enchants/gems then people think you aren't doing enough.

  5. #265
    I think the problem is LFR honestly, when you remove the social investment from the game people have no reason to stick around. More players can now up and leave without worrying about disappointing their guild or missing out on progression because LFR removes these aspects from the game for a large part of the population.

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  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Whether I am casual remains to be seen. Also, if you do only two heroics per day, then whatever the catch-up mechanic is (besides free gear at vendor) you will take a long time to perform the said catch-up (or gearing up).
    Less than in MoP now. In Cata and WotLK a fresh 80/85 could become current raid worthy in 1-2 weeks of casual play. Depending on luck and guild status.
    In MoP - it takes 1-2 weeks to get MV LFR worthy for a casual. Then it takes a month or 2. To get to current LFR. For a casual. Again depending on luck and guild status. Casuals normally don't have many lucky coins, neither do they have time to run LFR multiple times a week.

    I had to switch mains for the raid needs. I had a lot of time at the moment and played hardcore. It took me 2 weeks to get ToT normal worthy. HARDCORE! I shudder at the thought of how much it would've taken in casual mode....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    And the way they implemented those catch-up mechanics was pretty much forced. Also, it lead to all players getting their 378 gear, then do LFR, and then leave or roll a crapload of alts. So it was not the smartest idea.
    What do you mean forced? People want to catch up, nothing can be forced there.
    Cata is famous for being alt friendly for a reason. People rolled them a lot. And it was GOOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    And you magically got ALL ToC gear in just 2 heroics per day? But of course...
    Yes, though I managed to get 3-4 heroics per day - I was in a guild. Considering back then content wasn't pushed that fast as it is now - it was fine.
    You also forget about badges. Doing a couple heroics a day you could cap badges for the week easily. And buy something. Like a tier piece.
    My Little Borg: Friendship is Irrelevant

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Hell in mists even on healthy servers the pug experience is dead.
    plenty of pugs for everything from MSV to ToT on my server

  8. #268
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    plenty of pugs for everything from MSV to ToT on my server
    must be nice. Then again I guess theirs more dead servers than ever. Healthy just took a whole new meaning.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #269
    I quit at MOP, did not like it at all. I was as loyal a WoW player as there was, through good times and bad, I never unsubscribed once in 7 years. During that this time I worked and had a family. I worked helium gas company, but I quit, I refuse to be spoken to in that kind of tone. Moved on to another job.

    Point being, I quit finally due to the tone set with direction, casual. There were times I did not have much time for WoW and other times I had a lot of time for Wow, in both circumstances I "used" to feel I could still do what I wanted to and if I had less time to do to my number one interest (Raiding & heroic dungeons) that was more than fine. I KEPT my subscription because the game mechanics were solid.

    The game became more and more casual in certain ways, LFR really was an adjustment and still to this day it aggravates me in a fundamentally negative way. You see, I dislike rewarding mediocre play and the pay off for me was that I had opportunity to play in an envirement where it solid gameplay equated to reward. I did not like the motto everyone wins from Blizzard.

    I strongly believe humans need (and to some extend crave) the carrot on thy stick, that things should not be diminished and watered down. 3-4 years ago I settled for a 3 day raid cycle and even that short time frame worked well for me and have even gone to a 2 day.

    The game has settled to a "everyone gets something" mentality regardless of time/skill/excellence. People want some level of fairness on excellence, the game had that. It worked for casuals, normals and hardcore alike. Blizzard then leaned harder to the casual side. It wanted to become the jack of all trades and in fact, became the master of none. They fucked up the magic formula so to speak.

    The casuals were fine before, WOTLK became the highest based subscriber saturation. The reasons I believe that happened was because of the previous expansion (Burning Crusade and what people loved, word spread) and some things in WOTLK. In the end, I think many core players, loyal WoW players felt betrayed on the direction Blizzard chose. Casuals have a place too, I was both a casual and at times more hardcore, I had a place with either.

    The place now is this:

    "money for nothing and the chicks for free"

  10. #270
    Warchief theWocky's Avatar
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    I was tempted to pick up the MoP, but when I heard about the dailies, and from reading the forums that the game was grindy as hell, had less dungeons to run, I decided no too. I am a casual player. Casual players like things to do, but not have excessive grind to progress.

    Even as a casual player though, I fail to see the point of LFR - the ease of it I mean. If you're "that" casual, why on earth would you want to run something boring over and over again? It's like "Chronicles" in Rift. Just plain dumb as there is no challenge - too damn easy. Increase the challenge and up the rewards. WoW just needs to up the challenge in my opinion. I would even suggest removing it, but then, they can't very well now, can they?

    Also - an anonymous group of 25 people from the internet all in the same instance... Jezzzus... the 5 man PuGs were bad enough to put me off the game when I was playing. What on earth were they thinking? Then there are the dailies, etc.

    I don't think Blizzard catered to casuals in any sense of the word. In fact, they are dead on the money: "they drove them away"

    I will probably check out the game with the revival of the free expansion upgrade, free SoR, free lvl 85, etc, but this is my perception of things as an outsider.
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  11. #271
    I am Murloc! Granyala's Avatar
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    There is no easy balance to struck between long LFR catch-up and instant catch-up like in 4.3 5-mans, alas
    I think the Idea that a new character should progress and see all the content in order is a good one. I just think they should do less RNG, less daily-{something} and more steady, more flexible progress.

    I'd love to see them remove items from LFR in general and instead implement a non gated non RNG dependent currency you gain for LFR-Boss kills. For that currency you can buy LFR epics.
    Valor can stay where it is as a long term goal for the non raiding crowd and as a gap filler for unlucky raiders.

    Don't know if that even makes sense.

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  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Irony in its purest form :P?

    They made this game really casual friendly and the casuals didnt engage with it, brilliant.
    If you consider MoP casual-friendly then WotLK must have been casual-butt buddy.
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  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Luccas View Post
    Farming endless amount of dailies and/or grinding ilvl through all dungeons/raids released since MoP began is hardly casual. I got no idea what was Blizzard thinking at this point to be honest, current game style caters only to addicted players.
    This.

    I have 11 90's, one of each class. I haven't reached exalted on any rep except one character. The others only have Tillers at best mostly because I used their farms so much at 90. Blizzard disappointed me with MoP and being alt-friendly. Wrath was the best for alts (to me) and Cata was even easier with LFR minus the extra levels.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post

    See the difference now?


    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post

    no
    let me help you see then

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo


    watch entirely, for education purpose.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Marema View Post
    Are you kidding me? I'm pretty much the defination of casual and I hardly do dailies; have leveled several 90s all of which are capable of doing some form of LFR. The game is almost as casual now as it was in Wrath.

    I can only assme that the next xpac will be Wrath like in gameplay style, which was a little more casual as the current game.
    No, you're not a casual, you're an addict.
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  16. #276
    Blizzard doesn't know the difference between casual and skillfull, a skillfull player can still be a casual, a casual is defined by the time he has in his hands to play, or the play time he chooses to dedicate in general.

    Blizzard are currently making a gap between skillfull casuals, and skillfull hardcores, because, lets be honest here, you don't need skill to go up into raiding, just basic knowledge, casual players are currently blocked by this huge wall, this wall is called the time sink wall, which is NOT what the casuals want.

  17. #277
    Of course most losses/less engagement were from casual players when they begin to dip. They outnumber "hardcore" players by such a margin Blizzard would have to do something absolutely insane for this not to be true every single time they release a statement about this. Not sure that bit of information really told us anything at all.

  18. #278
    Casuals are what killed this game.

    So if they're leaving, good riddance.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Irony in its purest form :P?

    They made this game really casual friendly and the casuals didnt engage with it, brilliant.
    "less" implies that there are still casuals engaging it

    The entire statement is so vague that you can hardly draw any conclusions. What is a casual? Is it classified as someone who spends 1-4 hours a week online? Someone who does end game pvp or pve content? People who don't do any raiding, even LFR?

    It's almost useless to try and figure out what such a vague statement means because it can mean almost anything.

  20. #280
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    Blizzard doesn't know the difference between casual and skillfull, a skillfull player can still be a casual, a casual is defined by the time he has in his hands to play, or the play time he chooses to dedicate in general.

    Blizzard are currently making a gap between skillfull casuals, and skillfull hardcores, because, lets be honest here, you don't need skill to go up into raiding, just basic knowledge, casual players are currently blocked by this huge wall, this wall is called the time sink wall, which is NOT what the casuals want.
    Never before has someone so articulately hit the nail on the head.
    Unsubscribed as of 03/10/2014.

    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

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