4th raid difficulty, Easy Mode, should it happen?

[Notos]

The difficulty of raids varies wildly depending on the server you are on. My old server had pugs clearing normal mode easily and downing some of the easier heroic bosses...hell most of FL/DS was pugged on heroic. On the server I moved to in order to play with friends, you'd be lucky if a pug got past horridon on normal mode. The discrepancy is pretty depressing. Basically it all depends on the health of your server's raiding scene.

[spelle]

No no no no no

[Venant]

Its a bit more than that.

I am in 2 guilds a 25 on weekdays and a 10 man on weekends. In both we cleared FL and DS normal modes the first week and finished heroics before the nerfs. So I would say we are a well above average raid team in both guilds.The 10 man has the exact same roster we had back then (very close knit group of friends) and the 25 man has 5 new raiders from the Cata days.

The 10 man is 1/13 heroic and took 5 weeks to clear normal content
The 25 man is 2/13 and took 4 weeks to clear normal content.

The content is markedly harder in normals and heroics than it used to be... or did we just forget how to play all of the sudden? lol

You were in 2 25 man guilds that cleared H Ragnaros pre-nerf, yet you took 4+ weeks to clear normal ToT? There is nothing in normal mode ToT that even comes close to heroic rag when it was current content.

[MrExcelion]

This is similar to that 'beer league' suggestion, which was received well by the community. It's moreorless an "easy mode" too, but yeah if they make one they shouldn't call it easy mode lol.

[cabyio]

It's not like thunderforged drops on 10 mans anyway lol

It absolutely does. We have gotten about 8 pieces of thunderforged gear out of 10N.

[Deleted]

Gear is why it doesn't work. Doing the old content isn't rewarding enough, even with the nerfs.

I will add that being told to do old content is insulting and demeaning. It's basically the game saying "go do this, because you suck!" While that may be true, no one wants to hear it. The value proposition of an MMO is to inflate the ego, usually falsely, and anything that breaks that (multiple raid tiers, PvP ratings, for example) breaks the game.

So Blizzard are insulting the entire player base stating that they should make use of older tiers as a form of progression, as intended? Actually getting bosses killed, learning as a team and getting SOME gear into people is more rewarding than bashing away at the first boss of the current content and failing due to not being prepared enough.

Players need to understand their current level of play, on an individual basis and being the judge of the overall capabilities of the raid team they are in, and do the correct content at their current level. If they are not happy with the content they are doing, and want more, then they must strive to improve as an individual and as a team. This is a progression-based game, and progression takes time, time which varies depending on a large number of factors. If the player cannot give the game the time and effort it demands for serious end game content, then they won't be rewarded as much as those who do. That's just the way it goes.

[Adonea]

It absolutely does. We have gotten about 8 pieces of thunderforged gear out of 10N.

I can vouch for this. My team has also seen a decent amount of Thunderforged gear. I, myself, have four or five pieces.

[Glorious Leader]

It absolutely does. We have gotten about 8 pieces of thunderforged gear out of 10N.

Some people get all the luck. I can't even get a normal weapon ffs. Never mind thunderforged anything.

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 06:14 PM ----------

So Blizzard are insulting the entire player base stating that they should make use of older tiers as a form of progression, as intended? Actually getting bosses killed, learning as a team and getting SOME gear into people is more rewarding than bashing away at the first boss of the current content and failing due to not being prepared enough.

Players need to understand their current level of play, on an individual basis and being the judge of the overall capabilities of the raid team they are in, and do the correct content at their current level. If they are not happy with the content they are doing, and want more, then they must strive to improve as an individual and as a team. This is a progression-based game, and progression takes time, time which varies depending on a large number of factors. If the player cannot give the game the time and effort it demands for serious end game content, then they won't be rewarded as much as those who do. That's just the way it goes.

The won't understand. The aren't understanding. They are never going to understand. You can't give something to players and then take it away to take the egos of 1% of the population who actually likes this bs. I'm sorry. your day is done. Omseric dropped the hammer and was bang on when he said it was time to stop catering to you folks.

If the next tier is piss easy can I turn around and say hey man that's just the way it goes?

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.

And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

From the top rope it's Osmeric! he's gonna do it ! HE LANDS THE ELBOW! From the sky!!!! The crowd goes wild!!!! The hammer came down and it's sig worthy in my opinion.

[MAXCAVALERA]

I like Monster power system. the guild adjust the difficulty to its needs /goals

[StationaryHawk]

LFR is the easy mode. We don't need anymore levels of difficulty.

[Odina]

If the player cannot give the game the time and effort it demands for serious end game content, then they won't be rewarded as much as those who do. That's just the way it goes.

Pretty much this... I was a hardcore raider previously and was use to being server first, having BIS gear, clearing shit fast. Now older with comitments like wife child etc I have 1 night a week that I can raid for 4 hours if by some miracle I can squeeze in an extra hour here or there for dailies I'm happy!

Our guild is still trying to clear 12/12 normal and we have used the lockout system as we realize on our time scheduel we can't do a full clear. Thus we are choosing progress > loot. The game is a time sync...that is what the entire basis of a RPG is based off of MASSIVE amounts of time sinking.

If you are not willing to do the time sinc to be better than perhaps an MMORPG is not for you? I mean I know I will get "well there going ot loose all kinds of $$$" but again let me ask where will you go other than wow to get what you currently get? If there was something better than the current setup would 90% of the player base not have already left? Inc "you see how many subs they lost...thats all casuals that had nothign to do" and I must ask even if they make an "easy mode raid" then what will stop them from leaving once they clear the easyer normal when they get blocked with hard modes? Or are they going to just be happy that they can clear normal and LFR and that will be enough for them?

[Aleksej89]

LFR is the easy mode.

Even normal mode can be pugged if the players are at least average.

If anything, we need a "Supa dupa hard" mode where all bosses are buffed by a notable %.

[anaxie]

Getting a High paying job should be reduced in difficulty.
Raising a family should be reduced in difficulty.
Can you fix my car or should i turn easy mode on.

People learn things, people adapt. It's human nature. To say they can't is insulting. Players can and should learn to play a game that they are going to invest 100 hours + into.

WoW goes beyond "just a game" it's a social activities and by raiding you are asking for 24-35 other players time and to count on you. WoW is a hobby and I laugh at anyone who has no desire to be better at their hobbies especially the time investment a MMO requires even at a minimal level is still significant enough that learning to play the game quickly in under half an hour should be a non issue.

Newsflash if you have no desire for a time commitment. That is why LFR and world bosses are created. How dare anyone ask other players to rely on them when they viciously stamp their feet at any challenge in their way.

[Glorious Leader]

Getting a High paying job should be reduced in difficulty. Raising a family should be reduced in difficulty. Can i fix work on your aircraft in LFR mode?

Really? I mean if you could do that please by all means. Why does every discussion about this have to be resorted to such absurdities. This is one instance where the developers know better htan you people. Or at least I hope they do. Nerfed raids are incoming. The hammer is gonna fall again just you watch.

[Deleted]

I'd like to see LFR HP of anything to be lowered a lot. Currently they are only sponges anyways due to easy as hell tactics. Wasting people's time with them seems pointless.

[Awkilles]

- You can't demand the skill bar to lowered because there WILL ALWAYS be someone asking it to be lowered even more. 5 months from now it would be "what about a raid difficulty between LFR and easy mode".

- The game is MOSTLY responsible for players under-performing. Quests, LFD, and LFR are all face-roll making players settle at their skill level. Once they want to jump into normal mode raiding they are hit with a brick wall as their skill isn't sufficient without any kind of experience and/or guidance. Then instead of trying to get better, they complain why normal mode is so hard.

-Make LFR give out extra rewards according to performance. Highest level could be an extra roll per boss. This will be a very good incentive for people to play their class better and follow mechanics. It will also fix some of the AFK problems. Not every player might strive for this, but at least some will want to get better to get these extra rewards.

-PUGS have diminished solely because of LFR. Its easier to push a button than trying to get 9 other decent people. Its easier to gear up an alt in LFR. Its easier to do each wing at your own time. At the end, even if you are compelled to try to pug then it comes back to most people looking for a pug don't have the skill because of face rolling bosses in LFR.

[melodramocracy]

I actually see myself as a pretty good player,almost always top 3 in dps and do things in IFR that are unneeded but help (demo banner for ex), but i dont have the time commit to a raid. My play times are sporadic, and i dont like basing my life around a game. So im stuck with piss easy IFR, or to wait.for shit to.be nerfed?

Yes, yes you are. I don't see how this is a problem.

[Glorious Leader]

Yes, yes you are. I don't see how this is a problem.

Of course you don't. You cleared normal. Duh. The content was appropriate for you but not the majority of players. Let me put it this way. If it was piss easy and lots more people could do it and you did it so fast that it was over would you see that as a problem? I'm guessing yea but for those players it's right on time for them so they likely wouldn't Is it that hard to get out of your own perspective for just a minute?

[Deleted]

-Make LFR give out extra rewards according to performance. Highest level could be an extra roll per boss. This will be a very good incentive for people to play their class better and follow mechanics. It will also fix some of the AFK problems. Not every player might strive for this, but at least some will want to get better to get these extra rewards.

This is actually a good idea, the game is rewarding people actually trying to do high numbers in LFR the same way it does to those that stand afk half the fight and is on follow during the trash packs.

[Venant]

The won't understand. The aren't understanding. They are never going to understand. You can't give something to players and then take it away to take the egos of 1% of the population who actually likes this bs. I'm sorry. your day is done. Omseric dropped the hammer and was bang on when he said it was time to stop catering to you folks.

I believe that the issue lies more with the fact that so many people are stuck on servers where there is no option to engage in progression raiding because there are so few guild choices. Do you believe that you should reasonably be able to get gladiator with your randomly selected friend who is very bad at pvp? What is the real difference between getting a high rank in pvp and doing cutting edge progression raiding?

Yeah Horridon was a terrible fight to make the 2nd boss in the tier, it would be like putting Will of the Emperor after Stone Guard. On the other hand, the gear jump you get this tier nerfs the heck out of the content as your raids ilvl increases, far more than it did for T14. I think their goal was to make it feel like more of an accomplishment once you did manage to down a boss in ToT, but they should have left item upgrades in for prior tier gear and switched the cost to justice points. If they had left item upgrading in for prior tier items, then normal raiders who hadn't done heroic in T14 would have been able to boost their ilvl to a reasonable point for running ToT. It was unfair to non-heroic raiders for them to balance normal ToT around ilvl 502 gear while at the same time taking out the only avenue (item upgrading) to reaching this gear level for those not doing heroics.