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  1. #1281
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    No - it should be designed with a better difficulty curve in the first place. Its a problem when over three fourths of your playerbase considers it too difficult.
    Yes and it is the direct result of nerfing content in the first place. Your playerbase is lazy and whiny, they have grown that way because if they pout enough they will get a nerf making them feel like a raider again. Instead of getting better, looking at WOL and fixing shit, they just whine. Wrath babies, ever heard that term? There is ar eason for that term existing.

  2. #1282
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    The problem is they don't try.
    I want to point out that to Blizzard, a player that has a high skill cap but doesn't try, and a player with a low skill cap that does try, are indistinguishable. And really, the mental resources to push oneself are just another inherent attribute, like fast reflexes, large working memory, intelligence, or good vision. It's just that this drive gets polluted with moral overtones, leading to spurious notions of "deserving" to be catered to by the game designers.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler

    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  3. #1283
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    nevermind battlefield barrens allows them to solo facebleed grind out full 502 armor guaranteed at their own pace.
    sweet!!! more solo content for the bads that continues to destroy any semblance of community! just the shot in the arm the MMO needs!

  4. #1284
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Too many mechanics for average raiders to learn. Several of them being raid wide one shot (or almost one shot). For xample, Garalon crush, Wind Lord Wind bombs, Ambershaper amber explosion, horridon venom priests, council frost king skill, etc, etc, etc.
    If a guilds starts slowly with one boss,learning the encounter wipe through wipe what's to stop someone with an average intelligence to learn the mechanics of the encounter?
    Not to mention you have a whole guild to help and answer your questions?
    A single encounter requires what..reading up on a few mechanics,in the extreme case if you actually spend an entire day just watching youtube vids and reading about the spells you'll get the encounter under control.And that's only a day of work.Reminds me of that Glorious comparing normal raiding to becoming a doctor....just stating how ridiculous that was again.

  5. #1285
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    No - it should be designed with a better difficulty curve in the first place. Its a problem when over three fourths of your playerbase considers it too difficult.
    This may amaze you but most people that buy a game actually want the challenge. A game with a rep of being too easy isnt purchased by most but a game that is known to be really hard and challenging is a top seller. Pop into most games and you will see that there is no one to hold your hand or lower the challenge for you.

  6. #1286
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    You left out a part....

    Log into the game AND - wait for it - try

    No one is asking for a handout. What people are asking for is a version that they down that matches the skill and effort they can are are willing to put into it.

    See how that's different than your strawman? It was a half decent attempt though, I would still give you a golf clap for effort.
    Majority of guilds in TBC did T4 Kara while peak guilds cleared T6.5 sunwell. Guess what? T14 is nerfed and it is waiting for you. T15 too hard. Whelp guess T14 is the place for you. Or you know the other place where the LARGEST portion of the playerbase considers actual raiding for themselves. Yes the largest portion considers LFR for them to be raiding. What you say doesn't matter because to them you are also a minority. Hell the three/four of you have zero voice when you say for them and their content path isn't viable.

  7. #1287
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    What the hell are you talking about. I actually agree that LFR isn't raiding. But Blizzard counts people who do LFR as raiders, either we like it or not.
    And yes, you and me agree that LFR isn't raiding. But I bet there are loads of ppl who think LFR is raiding because then there wouldn't be millions of ppl in LFR.
    The heck that I'm talking about is what you agree with. At first I thought you were confused, then I read the 2nd sentence you wrote and realized you got it, so that made me happy.

    What doesn't matter is what Blizzard calls it. They can call it whatever they want, but you and I, and all the people quitting know it's not raiding. So Blizzard can keep putting their heads in the same while they post LFR numbers to board members, while behind the scenes the subs keep dropping.

  8. #1288
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    What the hell are you talking about. I actually agree that LFR isn't raiding. But Blizzard counts people who do LFR as raiders, either we like it or not.
    And yes, you and me agree that LFR isn't raiding. But I bet there are loads of ppl who think LFR is raiding because then there wouldn't be millions of ppl in LFR.
    Blizzard counts it as raiding. But in the sense of providing the social linkages that keep people in the game, it isn't the same as non-LFR raiding. It's a socially empty experience that gives loot.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler

    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  9. #1289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I want to point out that to Blizzard, a player that has a high skill cap but doesn't try, and a player with a low skill cap that does try, are indistinguishable. .
    There is no skill cap
    People have no magical DNA that somehow makes them a better raider
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  10. #1290
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    This may amaze you but most people that buy a game actually want the challenge. A game with a rep of being too easy isnt purchased by most but a game that is known to be really hard and challenging is a top seller. Pop into most games and you will see that there is no one to hold your hand or lower the challenge for you.
    ?? A lot of games I have played have a difficulty setting. Right at the start you can choose easy/normal/hard/ and usually a super hard difficulty. Actually pretty much every game I have on steam has a difficulty setting :P

  11. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raone View Post
    ?? A lot of games I have played have a difficulty setting. Right at the start you can choose easy/normal/hard/ and usually a super hard difficulty. Actually pretty much every game I have on steam has a difficulty setting :P
    and WoW has that, in fact many levels

    From questing to heroic raiding there is a huge range of PVE content
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  12. #1292
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    speaking of handicaps. Anyone remember the BLIND raiding enhancement shaman?
    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/01/12/gu...ildmate-steer/

    These players are admirable and I respect them. The people in this thread? Respect is the last thing you deserve. You aren't even worthy of spite. You should just be ignored and hopefully dissappear from the community.

  13. #1293
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    There is no skill cap
    People have no magical DNA that somehow makes them a better raider
    You are obviously wrong.

    There are personal variations in reaction time, in size of working memory, in visual acuity, in intelligence. All of these affect ones ability to perform in a raid.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler

    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  14. #1294
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    This may amaze you but most people that buy a game actually want the challenge. A game with a rep of being too easy isnt purchased by most but a game that is known to be really hard and challenging is a top seller. Pop into most games and you will see that there is no one to hold your hand or lower the challenge for you.
    The first heroic Lich King kill was at 5% buff. I also see that you did not kill H LK for weeks after Sindragosa. Was that not a good challenge?

  15. #1295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    There are personal variations in reaction time, in size of working memory, in visual acuity, in intelligence. All of these affect ones ability to perform in a raid.
    all of which can be improved upon
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  16. #1296
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    and WoW has that, in fact many levels

    From questing to heroic raiding there is a huge range of PVE content
    not in terms of raiding. For raiding there is 2 only difficulty modes, normal and heroic, LFR is not a difficulty mode for raiders it's a solo experience completely separate from raiding.

  17. #1297
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You are obviously wrong.

    There are personal variations in reaction time, in size of working memory, in visual acuity, in intelligence. All of these affect ones ability to perform in a raid.
    You are right but those differences aren't huge enough to make a person unable to raid if we're talking about a person of average intelligence.

  18. #1298
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    The heck that I'm talking about is what you agree with. At first I thought you were confused, then I read the 2nd sentence you wrote and realized you got it, so that made me happy.

    What doesn't matter is what Blizzard calls it. They can call it whatever they want, but you and I, and all the people quitting know it's not raiding. So Blizzard can keep putting their heads in the same while they post LFR numbers to board members, while behind the scenes the subs keep dropping.
    Thing is, people need challenging content which they do with friends and guilds. That is what keeps people to stay. If everything in game is made for solo play people will leave after a while because you can't play single player game for years.
    And I consider challenging content beer league, normal and heroic.

  19. #1299
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    all of which can be improved upon
    And all of which have caps that are subject to personal variation. Or do you think you could be as smart as Einstein if you just tried hard enough?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler

    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  20. #1300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raone View Post
    not in terms of raiding. .
    Raiding is the pinnacle of PVE content, just to get to it you need a certain level

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 04:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    And all of which have caps that are subject to personal variation.
    Really?
    So the absolute, complete, tip of the edge capabilities of these players, the best they can ever humanly possibly achieve gets them no farther than LFR?
    Do you even realize how insulting that is?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

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