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  1. #1301
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    You are right but those differences aren't huge enough to make a person unable to raid if we're talking about a person of average intelligence.
    You don't know that.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  2. #1302
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Blizzard counts it as raiding. But in the sense of providing the social linkages that keep people in the game, it isn't the same as non-LFR raiding. It's a socially empty experience that gives loot.
    I think we can all agree to that. WTB content which requires guild effort - not only in raiding.

  3. #1303
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Raiding is the pinnacle of PVE content, just to get to it you need a certain level
    Which is the entire point of Easy difficulty setting, to get a player to that point to where they can raid, to where they can practice at getting good. You won't magically get good by stepping into normal mode you need to learn outside of normal mode.

    You will not get to that point threw Heroic Dungeons/Scenarios/LFR, you will learn nothing from these difficulty settings except how to AoE and even then you could be AoEing completely wrong and have no idea.

    Easy mode could be this setting. A difficulty where the DPS/HPS requirements are lower but the mechanics will still kill/wipe your raid if you fail to do them.
    Last edited by Raone; 2013-05-11 at 04:52 AM.

  4. #1304
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Really?
    So the absolute, complete, tip of the edge capabilities of these players, the best they can ever humanly possibly achieve gets them no farther than LFR?
    Do you even realize how insulting that is?
    I remind you that we were talking about people whose ideal difficulty is above LFR and below current normal.

    Insulting? It's not insulting to recognize facts about player demographics, that the bell curve has a certain shape and width.

    The contrary position, that these people can achieve but are too morally degenerate to do so, seems much more insulting to me.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  5. #1305
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    Thats not evidence of anything but possibilities as to why less people are raiding. That is all it is. LFR takes a ton of people away from normal raiding, people growing old of the game, not being able to afford it anymore, and a million other reasons that i dont care to list.
    DS had LFR, 62k guilds killed Morchok before MoP. 24k guilds have killed Jinrihk so far (42k killed Stone guards before 5.2)

  6. #1306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    DS had LFR, 62k guilds killed Morchok before MoP. 24k guilds have killed Jinrihk so far (42k killed Stone guards before 5.2)
    and the tier isnt even half way over, not to mention the upcoming item lvl upgrades
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    DS had LFR, 62k guilds killed Morchok before MoP. 24k guilds have killed Jinrihk so far (42k killed Stone guards before 5.2)
    DS was out how long - 9 months? ToT is out 2 months.

  8. #1308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I remind you that we were talking about people whose ideal difficulty is above LFR and below current normal.e.
    Ideal for their play style - a play style that can be changed if they so want it to
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  9. #1309
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    And how is it obvious thats not her best?

    There is ZERO ZERO difference from me to her. I do not have some magical gene inside my DNA that makes me a better raider than her. Anyone can reach and level of skill if they strived to be so.
    People have different reactions times, different speed at which they get what is happening in front of them, different decision making speed, etc. So now, what you just said is false and is the reason why you cant understand the simple concept of people not being able to reach the level of skill of the top people.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 01:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    There is a difference between a "normal" player and a "normal" raider
    Yes, and i am talking about normal raiders.

  10. #1310
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You don't know that.
    Yes I do know that.Because I have experienced the difficulty myself.Knowing the difficulty of normal raiding and the difficulty of leveling your character to max level I can conclude anyone who's capable of doing the latter can easily learn the basics of raiding.
    (troll protection:I'm not claiming they share the same difficulty)
    And as an extra I also got the chance to meet a wide array of people while raiding,and they were average people.

  11. #1311
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Majority of guilds in TBC did T4 Kara while peak guilds cleared T6.5 sunwell. Guess what? T14 is nerfed and it is waiting for you. T15 too hard. Whelp guess T14 is the place for you. Or you know the other place where the LARGEST portion of the playerbase considers actual raiding for themselves. Yes the largest portion considers LFR for them to be raiding. What you say doesn't matter because to them you are also a minority. Hell the three/four of you have zero voice when you say for them and their content path isn't viable.
    How can I clear a nerfed T14, when 8 of the 9 people I raided with quit between January and March due to the sheer retardedness of MoP's state of raiding and grinding. Funny story though, while all my raiding friends quit, none of my "baddie" friends (who don't raid, couldn't raid, and couldn't care less that they don't raid) quit. They continue to be content doing all the piddly stuff everyone keeps suggesting that the lower 97% do.

  12. #1312
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    You are basically saying that if you can log into the game you should be able to down normal modes. No entitlement there, you must really miss Wrath.
    No i am not saying that. I am saying that if you try enough, you shouldbe able to do it. That is not happening right now. There are plenty of guilds trying really hard that couldnt. This happened in T14, where empress guild kills climbed from 13k to 20k in less than 1 month after the 10% nerf and with a couple of 522 gear, along with the item upgrade they had.

    The same is happening to ToT.

    People are trying, really hard, but the Normal raids are tuned too high for normal raiders.

  13. #1313
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    and the tier isnt even half way over, not to mention the upcoming item lvl upgrades
    You can put a fork in this tier.

    The 300,000 less raiders in this tier that were raiding last tier were all part of the 1.3 millions subs that were lost. We'll be lucky to see 1/12 Normal get to 30k guilds. I'm guessing it doesn't hit 25k. 2/12 won't hit 20k
    Last edited by Ragedaug; 2013-05-11 at 05:05 AM.

  14. #1314
    Isn't that what pre-level cap is?

  15. #1315
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    If a guilds starts slowly with one boss,learning the encounter wipe through wipe what's to stop someone with an average intelligence to learn the mechanics of the encounter?
    Not to mention you have a whole guild to help and answer your questions?
    A single encounter requires what..reading up on a few mechanics,in the extreme case if you actually spend an entire day just watching youtube vids and reading about the spells you'll get the encounter under control.And that's only a day of work.Reminds me of that Glorious comparing normal raiding to becoming a doctor....just stating how ridiculous that was again.

    Even after reading, trying, and with help from within the guild and from the outside, many people couldnt finish HoF in T14, and are unable to progress in T15.

    This are FACT.

    The problem is that you and other people here are using their imagination where everyone can do anything they want and the blame people of not trying.

    Data shows that they try and fail.

    I wish people in your side of the discussion starts providing SOME facts, data or something to back up what you are saying.

  16. #1316
    Super Moderator Elysia's Avatar
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    Closing this here. While there has been some actual discussion here and there, the majority of this thread consists of the same people arguing the same points in circles. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when you're not capable of arguing points without insulting each other, then we have problems. Please remember to play nice, guys.

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