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  1. #1

    Shadows of the Eternals ("Eternal Darkness 2")

    A psychological horror game, Shadow of the Eternals is the spiritual successor to Eternal Darkness: Sanity’s Requiem, being developed by the original creators of the popular and critically acclaimed classic. Featuring an eclectic cast of heroes and villains, Shadow of the Eternals will span thousands of years of history. Players’ perception of reality will be shattered as they try to balance the mechanics of combat, magick, and exploration as they progress through the adventure.

    Shadow of the Eternals is:
    • A single-player third-person action/adventure game with horror elements.
    • An 8-10 hour complete experience.
    • Multiple playable characters throughout different time periods of history.
    • Sanity events - special graphical, audio, and controller effects - will challenge your senses and your mind, causing you to question what is real.
    • Developed in collaboration with the community via an exclusive area on our forums.
    • Developed with CryENGINE 3 for PC (Windows) and Wii U.
    • Available via a DRM-free distribution method (for PC).
    The story begins as Detective Paul Becker is called to Pleasant View Hospital, the site of one of the bloodiest gang massacres in Louisiana state history. The massacre is survived by two individuals who seemingly have no recollection about who they are or what has transpired -- one a suave businessman, and the other a hardened, rogue-like biker. Both men have lost all memory of who they are -- and yet they are compelled to kill each other.

    Through Becker’s interrogation of the suspects, a story unfolds that is set in Hungary 1610 AD at Csejthe Castle – home to the noblewoman Erzsébet Báthory. Báthory is a notorious serial killer; torturing and killing as many as 400 young women in her obsessive quest to retain her youth. You play the role of Báthory’s handmaiden and lover Klára, who is being blackmailed by the authorities into gathering information about a missing nobleman’s daughter.

    Events are soon set in motion that will change Klára's life forever.
    This is a story-driven game. It's been funded through Kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...he-eternals-0/

    It was also showcased as a playable demo at Comic Con and it has already been added to the AMD Gaming Evolved program.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-07-25 at 04:03 PM.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    So far this is at $70 out of $1.35M on Kickstarter, so together with the $150K raised before Kickstarter, that's a total of $220K out of $1.5M.

    Some people have been sharply criticizing the game due to Denis Dyack's past. It's recently been announced that Dyack will be addressing those claims and answering submitted questions on Monday. But looking at this objectively, and looking at how great Eternal Darkness was, this project is worth supporting. And for those who haven't played Eternal Darkness, here's a taste of what it was like:

  4. #4
    Lovely dark diablo 1 esque / meets baldur's gate setting.

    Author of: Goggle Cat Comics.

  5. #5
    Interesting I really liked Eternal Darkness. I hope they wont just recycle everything like they did with this church. Its identical to the church from Eternal Darkness
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQGMxfzFp1g
    Last edited by Faldric; 2013-05-18 at 03:46 PM.

  6. #6
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    Can't comment on the game as not much was really shown and never played the first, but I really do not see it hitting that goal. Maybe it will get some massive backing , but something will really need to change for it to have a chance to make the amount asked for

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fiif View Post
    Can't comment on the game as not much was really shown and never played the first, but I really do not see it hitting that goal. Maybe it will get some massive backing , but something will really need to change for it to have a chance to make the amount asked for
    Yeah. But feel free to pledge if you like how the game is looking. After all, Kickstarter doesn't take your money unless the goal is reached.

  8. #8
    Denis Dyack respond the allegations of the Kotaku article.

    In his response he says the article is false, that the author of the article said it was rejected by Wired and other places due to a lack of evidence, that SK put more money and resources into XMD than Activision had given and that Activision was informed of this:


    Sources.

  9. #9
    Oh yay, it's "he said, she said." SK already got shut down (Basically, being required to destroy games that used the Unreal Engine and the millions they owe Epic pretty much killed them. Not sure if they're still around anymore) after they lost their lawsuit with Epic where they were found guilty of stealing source code (amongst other things) from the Unreal Engine, so it's not as if they've got the best track record for honesty.

    What does this have to do with Shadow of the Eternals anyways?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    Oh yay, it's "he said, she said." SK already got shut down (Basically, being required to destroy games that used the Unreal Engine and the millions they owe Epic pretty much killed them. Not sure if they're still around anymore) after they lost their lawsuit with Epic where they were found guilty of stealing source code (amongst other things) from the Unreal Engine, so it's not as if they've got the best track record for honesty.

    What does this have to do with Shadow of the Eternals anyways?
    This isn't about the Epic lawsuit, it's about the Kotaku article which accused Dyack of stealing money and other horrible things. And the article was based on nothing more than 8 anonymous sources, with no corroborating evidence. This was an article that was shopped around and rejected by other outlets like Wired, as it was revealed today, specifically due to lack of evidence in the article.

    Citing unverifiable anonymous sources with ulterior motives with no other supporting evidence is exactly how the public case for the Iraq War was built. It caused the invasion of a country, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians and soldiers, only then to find out that *shock* there were no WMDs. It's a serious breach of journalistic standards.

    It's related to Shadow of the Eternals because these baseless allegations have led to the game receiving a highly negative reception due to Dyack hate.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-05-20 at 09:22 AM.

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk Mechazod's Avatar
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    Eww, I hate digital episodic games with a passion, I will wait for the complete product. I'm pretty disappointed they had to go this route with a spiritual successor to the series instead of a true sequel, I remember hearing a while back that Nintendo had put out a trademark for Eternal Darkness 2 or something and I had hoped that a true return of the game would manifest on the Wii or Wii U.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechazod View Post
    Eww, I hate digital episodic games with a passion, I will wait for the complete product. I'm pretty disappointed they had to go this route with a spiritual successor to the series instead of a true sequel, I remember hearing a while back that Nintendo had put out a trademark for Eternal Darkness 2 or something and I had hoped that a true return of the game would manifest on the Wii or Wii U.
    Like I said. It's basically a TV show. Episodic is great for telling stories. Lost, Game of Thrones, 24, Breaking Bad, etc., they're all episodic and they're all great.

    There's also the additional bonus that it'll be released sooner if it's episodic. For example, if Blizzard released SC2 Legacy of the Void with multiplayer (which doesn't take much work, it's just 1 new unit per race and balance testing), and released the campaign 1 mission every 2-4 weeks, then the game could be released, probably within 1 year, instead of having to wait around 2-3 years for the expansion in full, i.e. multiplayer wouldn't have to wait until single player catches up in development. Blizzard should go episodic for the single player portion of all their future RTS games. Although SotE has no multiplayer. Similarly, no one insists that TV shows are released at once with the entire season filmed.

    Episodic doesn't work for multiplayer, but it works great for single player, or anywhere where you want to tell an epic story.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-05-20 at 02:18 PM.

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk Mechazod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Like I said. It's basically a TV show. Episodic is great for telling stories. Lost, Game of Thrones, 24, Breaking Bad, etc., they're all episodic and they're all great.

    There's also the additional bonus that it'll be released sooner if it's episodic. For example, if Blizzard released SC2 Legacy of the Void with multiplayer (which doesn't take much work, it's just 1 new unit per race and balance testing), and released the campaign 1 mission every 2-4 weeks, then the game could be released, probably within 1 year, instead of having to wait around 2-3 years for the expansion in full, i.e. multiplayer wouldn't have to wait until single player catches up in development. Although SotE has no multiplayer. Similarly, no one insists that TV shows are released at once with the entire season filmed.

    Episodic doesn't work for multiplayer, but it works great for single player, or anywhere where you want to tell an epic story.

    I personally hate ideas like that, I rather wait longer and pay the full price for a game and get everything at once for a complete product. I hate the idea of getting really into a story and then having to wait X-number of months to pick up at a cliff hanger, its the main reason I always buy complete versions of episodic releases such as the Back to the Future and Jurassic Park games that came out a while back. I also really despise digital distribution so that's another reason for me personally why I would hate episodic content and will not support it(though in rare cases like the Sam&Max games the episodes did get retail releases). I have no problem with a full game having a cliff hanger that leads directly into another full blown sequel, but I have no love for these bite sized episodic games. I can see why some smaller indie groups may want to make episodic games, but I really dread the thought of major companies doing the same thing for their titles or the example you made with Starcraft 2.

    Once again that's just my opinion on it and why I dont like the idea that this game will be episodic, I thought the first Eternal Darkness told its story perfectly well as one continues game. Also my opinions only have to do with using the idea for video games, I dont really care about when TV shows do it because to me that's another beast entirely in the way the medium works and the crowd its aiming for and I dont think games need to follow the same idea for story telling and for how they are released.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechazod View Post
    I personally hate ideas like that, I rather wait longer and pay the full price for a game and get everything at once for a complete product. I hate the idea of getting really into a story and then having to wait X-number of months to pick up at a cliff hanger, its the main reason I always buy complete versions of episodic releases such as the Back to the Future and Jurassic Park games that came out a while back. I also really despise digital distribution so that's another reason for me personally why I would hate episodic content and will not support it(though in rare cases like the Sam&Max games the episodes did get retail releases). I have no problem with a full game having a cliff hanger that leads directly into another full blown sequel, but I have no love for these bite sized episodic games. I can see why some smaller indie groups may want to make episodic games, but I really dread the thought of major companies doing the same thing for their titles or the example you made with Starcraft 2.

    Once again that's just my opinion on it and why I dont like the idea that this game will be episodic, I thought the first Eternal Darkness told its story perfectly well as one continues game. Also my opinions only have to do with using the idea for video games, I dont really care about when TV shows do it because to me that's another beast entirely in the way the medium works and the crowd its aiming for and I dont think games need to follow the same idea for story telling and for how they are released.
    I notice that you say TV shows are different from games. But if you think about single player games that are design to tell stories, there really is no relevant difference with TV shows. Sure, there are differences, e.g. one uses computer graphics, the other uses live actors, but that's immaterial to whether the story should be told in episodes or in 1 large back-to-back 22 episode per season marathon.

    You mention cliffhangers. Cliffhangers is what makes TV shows so great, it's what makes episodic content great. For example, in the early seasons of Alias and 24, every episode ended with a cliffhanger, which kept viewers interested in the story. And episodic content, whether it's TV shows or games, gives people a chance to discuss the story as it progresses. It let's viewers or players theorize about crazy cliffhangers, mind blowing revelations, favorite characters or amazing scenes and moments. If anyone was following or discussing Lost on the internet when that was airing on TV, then you'll remember how rewarding the community interaction and discussion about the show was.

    You don't get that chance if it's not in episodes. You can only talk about it after the fact. Everyone fixates on the ending. You don't get that chance to think and digest cliffhangers and story and character along with a community, as the story progresses. Without episodic, you can't look halfway through the season and discuss, given what's been revealed so far, what's your theory on, say, the Smoke Monster. There would just be before release, and after the ending,

    I guess that you won't think these arguments are convincing if you don't care about discussing the show or getting involved in some sort of dialogue about the show.

    But it'll release faster. Everyone would find this argument, at the very least, a small positive.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-05-20 at 03:05 PM.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Mechazod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    I notice that you say TV shows are different from games. But if you think about single player games that are design to tell stories, there really is no relevant difference with TV shows. Sure, there are differences, e.g. one uses computer graphics, the other uses live actors, but that's immaterial to whether the story should be told in episodes or in 1 large back-to-back 22 episode per season marathon.

    You mention cliffhangers. Cliffhangers is what makes TV shows so great, it's what makes episodic content great. For example, in the early seasons of Alias and 24, every episode ended with a cliffhanger, which kept viewers interested in the story. And episodic content, whether it's TV shows or games, gives people a chance to discuss the story as it progresses. It let's viewers or players theorize about crazy cliffhangers, mind blowing revelations, favorite characters or amazing scenes and moments. If anyone was following or discussing Lost on the internet when that was airing on TV, then you'll remember how rewarding the community interaction and discussion about the show was.

    You don't get that chance if it's not in episodes. You can only talk about it after the fact. Everyone fixates on the ending. You don't get that chance to think and digest cliffhangers and story and character along with a community, as the story progresses. Without episodic, you can't look halfway through the season and discuss, given what's been revealed so far, what's your theory on, say, the Smoke Monster. There would just be before release, and after the ending,

    I guess that you won't think these arguments are convincing if you don't care about discussing the show or getting involved in some sort of dialogue about the show.

    But it'll release faster. Everyone would find this argument, at the very least, a small positive.
    I personally disagree, I think video games can be very different then TV shows in how they play out. In TV shows you are going to see the entirety of the story no matter what as long as you keep watching. In video games you are the determining factor in how far you progress though the single player plot, you can set the game to an easy setting and just breeze through it for the story or put it on a harder difficulty and feel more rewarded as you complete segments of it, of course however these are all examples of more action-oriented games, I am currently not aware what kind of game play Shadows of the Eternals will use, but if it truly is a spiritual successor to Eternal Darkness then there will be some level of difficulty to the game as say opposed to other usual episodic games like Tales of Monkey Island or click and point adventure games. Beyond that fact however there is also the idea that in a video game you usually get to explore and interact with the world in a way TV shows cant really do, along with the fact that the ability to control the actions of a character in a game usually makes the player feel like they them self are that character, even if that character does have a defined unique personality. I have never once played a video game where it felt comparable to watching a TV show, the only slight possibility I ever may have would have been from Dragon's Lair/Space Ace, full-motion video games or Heavy Rain/Fahrenheit(Indigo Prophecy) and even then the outcome of those games still depended on my actions.

    I can understand there being a really good plot in a TV show and people wanting to discuss it between episodes, but once again I still find that is mostly centered around the fact that the stories are television programs to being with. The shows are meant to be episodic because they have to be, if they weren't they would be a movie. Sure there are short series with a defined ending after so many episodes, but they are still based around the idea of someone turning on their TV and watching the show at its weekly time. I just dont see why episodic video games would need to follow such a pattern, there is no need to appease a network with so many episodes, there is no real dead line for portions of a game to come out in, the creators will still get payed for a full product as opposed to individual segments of it. I can see that there may be stuff to discuss from an episodic format in between whats released, but I still think the idea of video games trying to emulate how TV shows are released is a dumb idea since there is so much more that a video game can do to tell its story and expand its world then a show you are just watching ever could.

    And believe me I do enjoy discussing a games story, just because a game isn't in episodic segments doesn't mean its not going to have a lot of speculation and theories about what happened in it, to me the idea of episodic releases just feels like a cheap gimmick in how the game is remembered, I think the game should be remembered for what you did play and how you did interact with the world as opposed to just being remembered about how you were guessing where the story would go, I can understand for a TV series but to me it just seems like a bad idea for a video game. If other people want to enjoy the plot like that then so be it, but I personally will wait for all of the games content to be released before playing it and get the full experience out of it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    I notice that you say TV shows are different from games. But if you think about single player games that are design to tell stories, there really is no relevant difference with TV shows. Sure, there are differences, e.g. one uses computer graphics, the other uses live actors, but that's immaterial to whether the story should be told in episodes or in 1 large back-to-back 22 episode per season marathon.
    Many big name games are better described as a movie, with a self contained plot that wraps up nicely, but with the options of further stories down the road if it's successful.

    Small scale episodic games like a tv show are generally side arrangements, not main things.

    This would be best described as a mini-series I think. It's got an overall open and close story arc, told over multiple sessions.

    But it'll release faster. Everyone would find this argument, at the very least, a small positive.
    The downside is that you may never get episode 2 of the miniseries, or if it's a 12 part series, maybe you'll get to episode 7 before it dies. How long do you wait between episodes? I don't mean how much will the developer promise or propose you wait, I'm curious how long the wait will actually be and we have no way to know until it's done. The Half Life 2 Episodic set being an example, from a BIG developer that isn't asked for you to fund it up front.

    And there's plenty of reasons it may fail that have nothing to do with the quality, it's natural that folks will leave as the series progresses, but not many folks will come in during the middle slump. And many folks may just wait until the end.

  17. #17
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    Hopefully this will happen. I was playing Eternal Darkness on my Gamecube last weekend.

  18. #18
    A few days there was a 2.5 hours steam of Eternal Darkness with the devs of Shadow of the Eternals (who also made Eternal Darkness):
    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...3F-tR0hDiHZVJJ

    Very interesting and comprehensive discussion of Shadow of the Etnerals, Eternal Darkness, the crowdfunding campaign, and games in general. They even talk about WoW and MMOs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 01:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    Many big name games are better described as a movie, with a self contained plot that wraps up nicely, but with the options of further stories down the road if it's successful.

    Small scale episodic games like a tv show are generally side arrangements, not main things.

    This would be best described as a mini-series I think. It's got an overall open and close story arc, told over multiple sessions.



    The downside is that you may never get episode 2 of the miniseries, or if it's a 12 part series, maybe you'll get to episode 7 before it dies. How long do you wait between episodes? I don't mean how much will the developer promise or propose you wait, I'm curious how long the wait will actually be and we have no way to know until it's done. The Half Life 2 Episodic set being an example, from a BIG developer that isn't asked for you to fund it up front.

    And there's plenty of reasons it may fail that have nothing to do with the quality, it's natural that folks will leave as the series progresses, but not many folks will come in during the middle slump. And many folks may just wait until the end.
    Yes, a full length single player game like Bioshock Infinite is analogous to a movie, whereas an episodic video game is analogous to a TV show (or a miniseries if that's what you want to call it). But so what? The point here is not what it's called or what it is like. The point is which format is better for telling stories, and TV shows have many benefits in story telling over movies, the only main advantage of movies, as a medium of storytelling, over TV shows, is that movies tend to have larger budgets.

    It's obvious that making the entire game would be too expensive, given that it costs $1.5M for the first episode (which includes many one-off upfront costs such as licensing the engine), and Precursor have stated that the next episodes will be funded by revenue from the first, and therefore will be significantly cheaper to make. So there's a budget constraint.

    But suppose there is no budget constraint. Given that there is no budget constraint, would the story be better told in episodes (like a TV show) or all at once (like a movie)? I argue that it would definitely be better in a TV show format for the above reasons, mainly for the ability to think about, theorize and discuss the unfolding story with the community as it happens, instead of after the fact. Blizzard's RTS games would greatly benefit from this format too, just as TV shows do.

    Also, on the HL2 Episode 3 example, if your idea is to release it all at once, and not in episodes, then HL2 still wouldn't be released now because Episode 3 isn't done. But that's more a reflection on Valve staffing and priorities than on the amount of time it takes to make an episodic game. It is not logically possible that releasing a game in pieces would take longer than releasing it all at once. If it takes 5 years to release each of 10 pieces, for a total of 50 years, then it would take 50 years to release it all at once.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-05-21 at 01:36 PM.

  19. #19
    Budget breakdown:

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Yes, a full length single player game like Bioshock Infinite is analogous to a movie, whereas an episodic video game is analogous to a TV show (or a miniseries if that's what you want to call it). But so what? The point here is not what it's called or what it is like. The point is which format is better for telling stories, and TV shows have many benefits in story telling over movies, the only main advantage of movies, as a medium of storytelling, over TV shows, is that movies tend to have larger budgets.
    The comparison is for the purpose of how full the experience is. A full movie/game is big, and self contained.

    The issue with the episodic content is the comparison of having a TV series or a miniseries that you don't know when/if the next episodes will air. With a TV series, you have a season that will air, rarely are they canceled mid-season (and then usually because no one was watching it anyway).

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